General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
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Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Elves and Birthing Pod are a good reason indeed, but why humans?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
1. I run both! Ur has some nice little things like this
2. both of these are a bit much. I'm actually running toil spout and I'm pretty happy with it
3. Haven't played with vizier, but blue rise from the grave is just boring. Vizier
3. Brontodon. Being able to commit the body early, not having to hold it for an artifact/enchantment to show up is amazing. War priest of thine vs mami of ancient law taught me this a while back
2. both of these are a bit much. I'm actually running toil spout and I'm pretty happy with it
3. Haven't played with vizier, but blue rise from the grave is just boring. Vizier
3. Brontodon. Being able to commit the body early, not having to hold it for an artifact/enchantment to show up is amazing. War priest of thine vs mami of ancient law taught me this a while back
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Let me translate that, because it looks like autocorrect got you good!
toil spout = Roil Spout
War priest of thine = War Priest of Thune
mami of ancient law = Kami of Ancient Law
Roil Spout looks like a fun card!
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Man it just isn't worth it to drag my laptop to work as the only thing in my bag, but man!
Also roil spout: technically prowess support
Also roil spout: technically prowess support
But "artifact or enchantment" is a much wider range than on war priest of thune. RecSage never lacks targets and is always a 2for1. Brontodon will never be. And when I have a Rakdos deck or something like that, I can splash the Sage easily to deal with problematic enchantments.
But in the End I think the answer is both, since they are both among the top 3 naturalize effects, so most cubes would have room for both.
But in the End I think the answer is both, since they are both among the top 3 naturalize effects, so most cubes would have room for both.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I find it's much easier to play Brontodon on curve
All solid advice people, thank you.
Bloodwater Entity v. Enigma Drake - I hated how both of these came out in the same block, the same color pair, same mana costs and the same "spell-matters" archetype. But Onder made an interesting point, and I will try Bloodwater first. If and when I do expand my cube from 450 to 540, Enigma may get in. I would run both, but I'm already having issue making cuts right now;
Reflector Mage v. Spell Queller - To answer Onderzeeboot's question: I have played against Reflector Mage before when I still could play Standard. Nothing worse than getting stuck with 16 Energy, and Three Electrostatic Pummelers in hand all thwarted by 2 Reflector Mages. I have opted for Spell Queller, if only because I'm noticing a trend of Flash Fliers in W/U as I'm putting this cube together. Will definitely revisit however, as I'm still not sure what W/U should be doing just yet;
Vizier of Many Faces v. Body Double - Going with Vizier. I kinda already made my mind of this before I posted. Everyone who responded just made me dislike Body Double more and more;
Reclamation Sage v. Thrashing Brontodon - Good points on all sides, and yet still unsure which to run. At this point, I an going to go Brontodon, if only for the reasons that I cannot find my Reclamation Sage in my collection, and to stop that one player in my group complaining that I'm sending the wrong signal to him that there is an Elf theme in green (just because the only affordable ($) mana dorks in green are Elves, does not mean Elf tribal is a thing.... god dammit!);
Alright, and I'll post the only other one I forgot to post last night:
Bloodwater Entity v. Enigma Drake - I hated how both of these came out in the same block, the same color pair, same mana costs and the same "spell-matters" archetype. But Onder made an interesting point, and I will try Bloodwater first. If and when I do expand my cube from 450 to 540, Enigma may get in. I would run both, but I'm already having issue making cuts right now;
Reflector Mage v. Spell Queller - To answer Onderzeeboot's question: I have played against Reflector Mage before when I still could play Standard. Nothing worse than getting stuck with 16 Energy, and Three Electrostatic Pummelers in hand all thwarted by 2 Reflector Mages. I have opted for Spell Queller, if only because I'm noticing a trend of Flash Fliers in W/U as I'm putting this cube together. Will definitely revisit however, as I'm still not sure what W/U should be doing just yet;
Vizier of Many Faces v. Body Double - Going with Vizier. I kinda already made my mind of this before I posted. Everyone who responded just made me dislike Body Double more and more;
Reclamation Sage v. Thrashing Brontodon - Good points on all sides, and yet still unsure which to run. At this point, I an going to go Brontodon, if only for the reasons that I cannot find my Reclamation Sage in my collection, and to stop that one player in my group complaining that I'm sending the wrong signal to him that there is an Elf theme in green (just because the only affordable ($) mana dorks in green are Elves, does not mean Elf tribal is a thing.... god dammit!);
Alright, and I'll post the only other one I forgot to post last night:
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I concur, but it does depend on the amount and quality of fixing available in your environment.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Those are both sweet. I personally swapped out Dungeon Geist for Mistfire Adept at first, then Niblis of Frost, because I wanted slightly more prowess creatures in my cube, but I could go either way on this one.
I honestly feel like we haven't hit that sweet spot for an izzet spells matter creature yet. I tested them all extensively alongside double delver of secrets and double young pyromancer, and even in their best deck they were mediocre (and often weak filler for other decks). For the time being I've given up on pushing spells matter and have instead upped the blue tempo support and value creatures to further enable my crippling addiction to CoCo and pod decks. For that reason I play Reflector Mage over Spell Queller, it simply slots into those two decks much better. Though if I bump up to four guild slots or Geist of Saint Traft continues to be absent from my drafts I may swap the Queller for him instead. Vizier of Many Faces has been a blast and a nice way to tie my pod decks into a sultai graveyard theme. Body Double did nothing during its 4 month tenure in my cube and I don't see myself going back. If any card threatens the vizier it is Stunt Double.
I have been agonizing over which of these two cards should fill my third guild slot for gruul. Number one is obviously Bloodbraid Elf, and I also run Dragonlord Atarka as one of my fav fatties and ramp/Wildfire bombs. Do you guys have any experience with Sarkhan Vol? I never see him in cube lists but he seems like a solid curve topper for Collected Company decks, and perhaps more importantly, he represents one of the few threaten effects suitable at my power level. Considering I run both double CoCo and double Birthing Pod, as well as a heavy sacrifice theme in Rakdos, which seems like the better fit for my cube?
Also along similar lines, how do you all feel about Yasova Dragonclaw?
I have been agonizing over which of these two cards should fill my third guild slot for gruul. Number one is obviously Bloodbraid Elf, and I also run Dragonlord Atarka as one of my fav fatties and ramp/Wildfire bombs. Do you guys have any experience with Sarkhan Vol? I never see him in cube lists but he seems like a solid curve topper for Collected Company decks, and perhaps more importantly, he represents one of the few threaten effects suitable at my power level. Considering I run both double CoCo and double Birthing Pod, as well as a heavy sacrifice theme in Rakdos, which seems like the better fit for my cube?
Also along similar lines, how do you all feel about Yasova Dragonclaw?
Speels matter has been much more successful for me with the spells that matter being top-end stuff, and things like Pyromancer being more support cards in the mid-game
I don't have experience with Sarkhan, but Huntmaster was really too strong for my cube the short while it was included.
Also, I really like Body Double. It's a unique effect for blue, which is more important than it being as absolutely efficient as other colors can reanimate things. We've had a lot of fun with it in my format. I run both of that fight club.
I don't have experience with Sarkhan, but Huntmaster was really too strong for my cube the short while it was included.
Also, I really like Body Double. It's a unique effect for blue, which is more important than it being as absolutely efficient as other colors can reanimate things. We've had a lot of fun with it in my format. I run both of that fight club.
Re: Bloodwater Entity vs. Enigma Drake, one thing worth taking a look at is the number of flashback cards you run in UR. I have a pretty high density of flashback so decided not to run Enigma Drake because it's a nonbo.
Of course, I could see an argument that, rather than looking strictly at that anti-synergy, it could also be viewed through the lens of making more interesting decision points during play, where a player has to decide if flashing back their Firebolt or whatever is worth losing a point of power.
Of course, I could see an argument that, rather than looking strictly at that anti-synergy, it could also be viewed through the lens of making more interesting decision points during play, where a player has to decide if flashing back their Firebolt or whatever is worth losing a point of power.
I have been agonizing over which of these two cards should fill my third guild slot for gruul. Number one is obviously Bloodbraid Elf, and I also run Dragonlord Atarka as one of my fav fatties and ramp/Wildfire bombs. Do you guys have any experience with Sarkhan Vol? I never see him in cube lists but he seems like a solid curve topper for Collected Company decks, and perhaps more importantly, he represents one of the few threaten effects suitable at my power level. Considering I run both double CoCo and double Birthing Pod, as well as a heavy sacrifice theme in Rakdos, which seems like the better fit for my cube?
Also along similar lines, how do you all feel about Yasova Dragonclaw?
Hey there! I also run double Pod double CoCo.
Here are my
cards: Bloodbraid, D-Lord A-tarkz, Clan Defiance (fliers hate/ramp support), and a custom spin on E-Wit. I really enjoy the threaten+pod synergies and briefly ran Sarkhan Vol, who was pretty solid at my then-power level, which is only a little weaker than it is currently. I really enjoyed his ability to play Fires, CoCo, or Pod with ease, and the ult wasn't very common while I had him in. I cut him when I reduced the number of planeswalkers in my environment, and was a little sad to see him go but not majorly bummed out - maybe that's a better sense of his power. When it comes to threaten effects, I really like Yasova Dragonclaw. The body is respectable, she's a mana sink for CoCo decks (the more all-in you are on CoCo the more you want sinks IME), and the repeatable threaten is honestly quite frustrating across the board. This is to say nothing of her interactions with Goblin Bombardment, or the disgusting violence of the threaten-attack-pod your guy play pattern.
PS: here's the custom gruul card I run. it's aggressive stats, more fodder for the sort of RUG recursion engine decks people here like, as well as one-shot grave hate for reanimator or combo opponents. For me and mine it's been satisfying, and I've kept it in every time I've trimmed custom cards because it's a solid roleplayer in a lot of decks. If I weren't running the Huntress, I think I might be running Sarkhan in her place.
Hey there! I also run double Pod double CoCo.
Here are my
When it comes to threaten effects, I really like Yasova Dragonclaw. The body is respectable, she's a mana sink for CoCo decks (the more all-in you are on CoCo the more you want sinks IME), and the repeatable threaten is honestly quite frustrating across the board. This is to say nothing of her interactions with Goblin Bombardment, or the disgusting violence of the threaten-attack-pod your guy play pattern.
PS: here's the custom gruul card I run. it's aggressive stats, more fodder for the sort of RUG recursion engine decks people here like, as well as one-shot grave hate for reanimator or combo opponents. For me and mine it's been satisfying, and I've kept it in every time I've trimmed custom cards because it's a solid roleplayer in a lot of decks. If I weren't running the Huntress, I think I might be running Sarkhan in her place.
Thanks for the detailed response! I get that approach, I tend to go through a planeswalker culling phase every other month, and then I miss them and I bring them back. I don't think most cubes miss out on much by not having Sarkhan Vol, but your response and my sweet 4 colour pod deck featuring both him and the Huntmaster made me decide to get over my compulsive need for guild balance. I've decided for now to make an exception for gruul (and Yasova who was fighting with Shardless Agent for my third simic slot). I dig your custom card! I wish I was better at proxying because I see some really sweet custom cards floating around here. How has Borderland Explorer been in your cube btw? Has always seemed like a solid early drop for CoCo and pod but I've never given him a fair crack at my cube.
The thing I really really like about Borderland Explorer is that he's a jack of all trades - decent stats early, discard outlet / draw smoother late, fixes shaky mana. It's cool to just run him out and then see Villain discard, say, Angel of Serenity or another premium fattie, and realize 'oh no, I'm on a clock' - it means you think more about running him out in game two, which is a fun tension. I don't think the everyone-fixes drawback is bad enough to not run the guy.
Been working on my low-end equipment package, and since this thread appears dead due to what I'm assuming M19 distractions (or summer, I suppose), can I get an opinion on the following:
Current Equipment for reference:
Current Equipment for reference:
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I don't have any real opinion on either one of them, but I question your inclusion of Grafted Wargear and Loxodon Warhammer in a "low-end equipment package". Wargear is a beast, one of the best equipments in existence, and Warhammer tends to be impossible to race.
I love Sword of Vengeance SO much. Equipment that grants haste is awesome when you got your board swept away and you're trying to topdeck random aggro dorks.
Also, first strike and vigilance have pretty good synergy.
But it's not OP in the sense that the very best equipment in Magic can be; it doesn't provide card advantage. Also, because aggro often can't both play and equip SoV in the same turn, it's more likely that the opponent can interact with it, which I think is a design plus.
I'm not hype for Forebear's Blade. Depends on the environment, of course, but you aren't getting the free equip against a sweeper, or if you have only one creature left, or if it's the first equip, or if the removal spell exiles or bounces... Such a plethora of failure modes makes me want to compare it to Greatsword before I compare it to Grafted Wargear (which is, to be fair, busted stronk.)
Also, first strike and vigilance have pretty good synergy.
But it's not OP in the sense that the very best equipment in Magic can be; it doesn't provide card advantage. Also, because aggro often can't both play and equip SoV in the same turn, it's more likely that the opponent can interact with it, which I think is a design plus.
I'm not hype for Forebear's Blade. Depends on the environment, of course, but you aren't getting the free equip against a sweeper, or if you have only one creature left, or if it's the first equip, or if the removal spell exiles or bounces... Such a plethora of failure modes makes me want to compare it to Greatsword before I compare it to Grafted Wargear (which is, to be fair, busted stronk.)
I like both of the swords you're suggesting and would play them over warhammer and wargear.
I guess this is my fault, as I should have said "Equipment Package That Does Not Include the Win-Swords, Batterskull, and Jitte". I'm actually surprised actually the amount of "disdain" both the Hammer and Wargear garnered here. Heh, maybe I'm spending too much time on MTGSalvation...
Miasmir convinced me to stick with the Sword of Vengeance I'll put those two on the watch list; I wonder if it is more prudent to change the Loxodon Warhammer to Behemoth Sledge, as Green White is kinda a lifegain-stompy archetype.
It would also help if I post my cube to give better context... I'm struggling with the Green section however.
Miasmir convinced me to stick with the Sword of Vengeance I'll put those two on the watch list; I wonder if it is more prudent to change the Loxodon Warhammer to Behemoth Sledge, as Green White is kinda a lifegain-stompy archetype.
It would also help if I post my cube to give better context... I'm struggling with the Green section however.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I have no disdain for the two cards I mentioned, they're cool, I just wanted you to be aware that they're *a lot* better than the rest of the equipments in your list
I'm also running Warhammer and Wargear in my lower powered list for a few years now. The hammer has been absolutely fine. It's far too slow and too easy to be answered to be an a problem. It's firstpickable but not an autoinclude bomb. The Wargear seems a little more problematic, it's on my watchlist, because the damage output is pretty sick.
Although I managed lately to show my opponent, how bad the Wargear is, when you get mindslavered
Although I managed lately to show my opponent, how bad the Wargear is, when you get mindslavered