General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
That's before my time lol
Enough of that rickrollery!
Which of these lower powered spells payoffs do you like more and why?
How quickly do your Aggro decks win? I think Riddleform is a pretty terrible card in most environments, and I wouldn't touch it with a 6-foot poll unless I had a very specific blue-red deck in the format that had every cantrip à la crash through and every 1 or 2 drop prowess creature. It just doesn't do what 90% of blue decks are interested in doing.
Skywise Teachings, by contrast, has proven itself to be an awesome build around. It was quite strong in it's respective retail limited formats, and I've played it before in Peasant cube with much success. However, your controlling decks need to be able to effectively take off turn 4 to cast it in some matchups. If your aggro decks are consistently able to win by turn 5, Skywise Teachings is going to be too slow. However, if games usually last until turn 6 or 7, Teachings can help stabilize the control player's board and help them take over the game.
Personally, I don't think your cube is configured for Riddleform to be good. Skywise Teachings looks much more like the type of thing your list wants to be doing, but you do have some cards which facilitate fast kills like Anax, hardened in the Forge which lead me to suspect that the teachings may be a little slow in your format. Since I've never played your cube, I can't make a judgement call on the speed of teachings.
I also prefer slow Drake Haven 1.0 for a low-powered cube. However I run Riddle and it can be really strong sometimes.
I agree with Train that the deck needs a lot of instants or sorceries since neither has a Young Pyromancer floor.
I agree with Train that the deck needs a lot of instants or sorceries since neither has a Young Pyromancer floor.
Riddle is like kind of sweet Watchwolf in your spell-heavy aggro decks, which I'm doubtful are common.
Skywise looks s l o w but it can win a long game on its own.
I'm not very interested in either and wonder if you'd be open to something like Mistral Singer or Mistfire Adept, which have a narrower floor to ceiling, in my mind. Singer is an extra mana over Riddle, but always has a 2/2 base and ties it with one spell cast. Adept is always a 3/3 base and can jump a few guys to push damage.
Skywise looks s l o w but it can win a long game on its own.
I'm not very interested in either and wonder if you'd be open to something like Mistral Singer or Mistfire Adept, which have a narrower floor to ceiling, in my mind. Singer is an extra mana over Riddle, but always has a 2/2 base and ties it with one spell cast. Adept is always a 3/3 base and can jump a few guys to push damage.
I want to like riddle but it’s always been kind of weak when I’ve had one in cube.
its value goes way up if most removal is sorcery speed.
its value goes way up if most removal is sorcery speed.
I need you guys to get creative: If you were a Sphinx, which MtG spells would be in your arsenal?
Right now Riddleform is one of the spells but I am not super happy about it.
Right now Riddleform is one of the spells but I am not super happy about it.
Absolute Law and Order
Judgement, execution of the law
Depth of Knowledge, power
Sphinxes being petty
Random
vs or both?!I want an artifact payoff card for my black decks, but I cannot chose which one.
My artifact decks are usually tokens, sacrifice and/or cheat decks and black takes part in all of these. Herald seems better in a generic deck (even casting him early with random artifacts is good), but Master is a true build around. In a perfect world I would play both, but I'm wondering, is this too much?
I don't really have any other top end cards I want to play so the slots are mostly open. What do you think?
Edit: I feel I should mention that the Master is a personal guilty pleasure. I don't yet know if my play group would use it (I did make a solid case for it by beating them soundly with it). I have seen at least one other drafter pick up the Herald in a random Pod deck.
i think you’ve kind of hit it on the head that it really depends how deep you want to go. Herald looks pretty good with 1-2 artifacts on board; Master asks you to dream a little bigger. So how many other black artifact matters cards are you running? Your overall artifact as-fan?
I run quite a lot of artifacts (don’t have as-fan number) or artifact producing cards.
What has me questioning is this deck:
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/deck/5f3d3cf09a900d0f8bdcfc67
It’s a BG Pod deck that incidentally has a lot of artifacts. Having Marionette Master instead of Herald here would have spawned a cool BG artifact deck when it’s not necessarily something I had planned.
The deck is still very solid with Herald, but Master would add that extra spice.
Both are very much an option too. Just not sure if I am too close to this and can’t see that I am being unreasonable.
What has me questioning is this deck:
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/deck/5f3d3cf09a900d0f8bdcfc67
It’s a BG Pod deck that incidentally has a lot of artifacts. Having Marionette Master instead of Herald here would have spawned a cool BG artifact deck when it’s not necessarily something I had planned.
The deck is still very solid with Herald, but Master would add that extra spice.
Both are very much an option too. Just not sure if I am too close to this and can’t see that I am being unreasonable.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
In my cube I've found Herald to be overwhelming beatstick and Master to be a gleeful build-around.
I think I like the Oriflamme the best here, as it comes out cheap and works on all creatures, not just the smaller ones.
It wasn't quite worth the card when I tried it, but it was close. Judith, the Scourge Diva and Domri, Anarch of Bolas have the same effect, but aren't narrow (obviously higher power level). If you don't care about creatures attacking and just want non combat damage, Impact Tremors has been decent for me.
Thanks for the answers to my fight, I have another one:
vs
I basically want a cheap blue artifact that can be sacrificed/recurred for Emry and Daretti or just sit around for Urza and Herald of Anguish. Even though it is slower to actually draw, the Well can set up your draws nicely but has zero impact on the board. For that reason, I think Spellbomb is better.
Thoughts?
It wasn't quite worth the card when I tried it, but it was close. Judith, the Scourge Diva and Domri, Anarch of Bolas have the same effect, but aren't narrow (obviously higher power level). If you don't care about creatures attacking and just want non combat damage, Impact Tremors has been decent for me.
Thanks for the answers to my fight, I have another one:
vs I basically want a cheap blue artifact that can be sacrificed/recurred for Emry and Daretti or just sit around for Urza and Herald of Anguish. Even though it is slower to actually draw, the Well can set up your draws nicely but has zero impact on the board. For that reason, I think Spellbomb is better.
Thoughts?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Witching Well is deceptively good. I'm not sure it's actually worse than the Spellbomb. The scry is relevant early, and Inspiration is a solid enough option for cashing in later!
Depends if your format will allow time to spend mana to draw two cards. Would also consider the amount of other bounce you run. In a vacuum I prefer spellbomb but I run both
You want cheap artifacts. These decks need early interaction and cannot afford to spend large quantities of mana not affecting the board. After all, in order to recur Witching Well you need 2U for Emry and then 3UU to draw two cards. That's such a massive investment that you'll lose the game. And if you want to use the ability again, you have to spend another 3UU mana.
Consider the following:
- Recurring Spiritbomb twice is actually one mana cheaper than recurring Witching Well once.
- You can recur the bomb and draw without spending all your mana. It's unlikely you can draw cards with Witching Well and then affect the board.
- Spellbombs are cheap to put into the graveyard for Emry to bring back. You can't self-sacrifice Witching Well until you have four mana sources in play.
- Spellbombs affect the board. You can bounce their creatures, yours or use it as a counterspell against removal.
- Spellbombs can by cycled if you don't have (or can't spend) colored mana.
The cards I use to support Emry and other similar cards are:
That said, I don't run Aether Spellbomb because the artifact decks are not very interested in bounce.
Consider the following:
- Recurring Spiritbomb twice is actually one mana cheaper than recurring Witching Well once.
- You can recur the bomb and draw without spending all your mana. It's unlikely you can draw cards with Witching Well and then affect the board.
- Spellbombs are cheap to put into the graveyard for Emry to bring back. You can't self-sacrifice Witching Well until you have four mana sources in play.
- Spellbombs affect the board. You can bounce their creatures, yours or use it as a counterspell against removal.
- Spellbombs can by cycled if you don't have (or can't spend) colored mana.
The cards I use to support Emry and other similar cards are:
That said, I don't run Aether Spellbomb because the artifact decks are not very interested in bounce.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
To which I counter:
- Recurring the Spellbomb twice actually takes a turn more. When you're digging for answers, what difference do an extra turn or an extra 3 mana make unless the answer happens to be exactly on the top?
- You typically crack the Well on your opponent's end step unless you're desperately digging.
- The difference between one and two cards is huge.
- The Spellbomb requires you to spend 1U to bounce or draw, the Well requires you to spend U to scry 2, or 3UU to scry 2 and draw 2. It's cheaper up front, and often more impactful on the back.
I mean, I'm not saying Aether Spellbomb is a bad card, not at all, but I feel like you are underselling how solid the Well is. At least it has been in my experience.
- Recurring the Spellbomb twice actually takes a turn more. When you're digging for answers, what difference do an extra turn or an extra 3 mana make unless the answer happens to be exactly on the top?
- You typically crack the Well on your opponent's end step unless you're desperately digging.
- The difference between one and two cards is huge.
- The Spellbomb requires you to spend 1U to bounce or draw, the Well requires you to spend U to scry 2, or 3UU to scry 2 and draw 2. It's cheaper up front, and often more impactful on the back.
I mean, I'm not saying Aether Spellbomb is a bad card, not at all, but I feel like you are underselling how solid the Well is. At least it has been in my experience.
From these I like the Oriflamme the most, although Bombardement is sometimes more powerful as the damage is harder to prevent.
What is it you are ooking for here exactly? I think red has sweeter options at that power level for rewarding you to go wide with lots of small dudes. If it needs to be an enchantment, only Goblin Bombardement would be a consideration for you, but I'm just leaving these here:
All of these fill additional rolls. The Wolf sticks after a boardwipe. The Striker is itself a 2-drop for your curve. Anax is sweet in sacrifice decks and can indicate a mono color theme. Scourge Devil works well with graveyard and discard themes like madness. Weapon Surge can be used offensively and defensively for huge blowouts. And lastly, the Bombardement is one of red best sac outlets for decks that might need this.