Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I'm a fan of Meteorite. It plays better than Gilded Lotus in my cube.
General How to execute a minimalist Artifact theme
- Thread starter FlowerSunRain
- Start date
Do you have your list online?
i love staff of nin and trading post
i like artifact fatties to do be able to cover weaknesses of colors to some small degree, like how steel hellkite can be used as enchantment removal in a monoblack deck even though it is extremely expensive. it's a small design safety measure
i like artifact fatties to do be able to cover weaknesses of colors to some small degree, like how steel hellkite can be used as enchantment removal in a monoblack deck even though it is extremely expensive. it's a small design safety measure
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
There's also Shrine of Loyal Legions for creating more Myr/architect or welding fodder.
CML
Contributor
A thought:
Run 2-3 Grand Architects, then push both artifact aggro/ramp and blue devotion
these cards will be drafted exclusively by 0-1 people and it will be stupid
a few more to mull over
vial is wildly unplayable, engine is probably too bad
now you're talking my language! what a sweet card.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Don't listen to CML, all of those blue cards plus the Skirge are playable.
I do agree that Architect and Sharding Sphinx are borderline. If the power level is a bit lower and/or there are a hefty number of cheap, efficient artifact creatures, then it could work. Probably have to double up on several artifact dudes. Cool idea for a theme, though.
Just as a side note: I know FlowerSunRain was concerned about having too many colorless cards, for good reason. To balance that, I think it would be important to include as many playable colored artifacts as possible.
Just as a side note: I know FlowerSunRain was concerned about having too many colorless cards, for good reason. To balance that, I think it would be important to include as many playable colored artifacts as possible.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
This seems a little bit like running an incidental tribal theme (artifact tribe). Usually the way you do that is run some density of <insert tribe> that you want in your cube anyways, and than run a few "lord" cards that are strong on their own. For example, bloodline keeper is a better vampire lord than stromkirk captain. This way, if the packs break in a way where only a few of the tribal cards show up, the drafter isn't screwed: i.e if I first pick bloodline keeper but see no other vampires for the rest of the draft, I don't feel punished for trying to go into the deck.
With that logic, the artifact "lord" cards that seem most appealing (that i've seen in this thread) are:
The ones that seem most questionable are:
And thats just purely on the basis that the packs could break in a way where those are trap picks. However, if your academy ruins are in the ULD that is probably ok, enlightened tutor is probably not screwing anyone over since its a card you pick after going into artifacts/enchantments, and people say that tez dosen't need artifact density to be good, so maybe he is fine.
I think though that steel overseer, goblin welder, chief engineer, and maybe kurkesh and metalworker are a bit dangerous. I used to run steel overseer back in the day with a fairly normal af section, and sometimes the packs would break in a way where he was very bad but people would still try to play him. Goblin welder, if I saw that in p1, is a card I would first pick on the assumption I could brew up something sweet, and would be let down if the packs broke in a way where didn't have the right artifacts to work with. I think the same thing could happen with chief engineer.
And of course, keep in mind that the worth of some of these cards is going to change dramatically based on the environment. Academy ruins becomes worse the less time you have to durdle with it, sharding sphinx is going to be too slow in some formats, hoarding dragon may be underpowered in a lot of places, and grand architect is trash without some sort of blue aggro strategy (as has been suggested). With a strong enchantment theme, enlightened tutor may be a great inclusion.
Bonus points though if you can run spine of ish sah. That card is a lot of fun.
With that logic, the artifact "lord" cards that seem most appealing (that i've seen in this thread) are:
The ones that seem most questionable are:
And thats just purely on the basis that the packs could break in a way where those are trap picks. However, if your academy ruins are in the ULD that is probably ok, enlightened tutor is probably not screwing anyone over since its a card you pick after going into artifacts/enchantments, and people say that tez dosen't need artifact density to be good, so maybe he is fine.
I think though that steel overseer, goblin welder, chief engineer, and maybe kurkesh and metalworker are a bit dangerous. I used to run steel overseer back in the day with a fairly normal af section, and sometimes the packs would break in a way where he was very bad but people would still try to play him. Goblin welder, if I saw that in p1, is a card I would first pick on the assumption I could brew up something sweet, and would be let down if the packs broke in a way where didn't have the right artifacts to work with. I think the same thing could happen with chief engineer.
And of course, keep in mind that the worth of some of these cards is going to change dramatically based on the environment. Academy ruins becomes worse the less time you have to durdle with it, sharding sphinx is going to be too slow in some formats, hoarding dragon may be underpowered in a lot of places, and grand architect is trash without some sort of blue aggro strategy (as has been suggested). With a strong enchantment theme, enlightened tutor may be a great inclusion.
Bonus points though if you can run spine of ish sah. That card is a lot of fun.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Steel Overseer is actually a pretty decent 4/4 or 5/5 for 2 in any deck that can stall. As long as you got time, it will get out of hand. Goblin Welder is of a high enough impact that it is totally worth it to run, especially if you run stuff like Smokestack, Contagion Clasp and Tanglewire (i.e. stuff that you want to reduce, reuse, recycle). Covetous Dragon is just plain fun. It's so huge for its cost, and if you run artifact mana in your cube it easily gets out on turn 4. 6/5 flying on turn 4 is terrifying!
man I should really read this whole thread but I am finding that seriously hard to believe, though I think guilded lotus is probz bunk in most environments anyway. Meteorite seems like development shit in the chocolate ice cream though, but it looked just wrong enough that most people avoided it.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I think I might have already explained this in some other thread, but the reason that Meteorite play better is obvious once you dig into the metrics. Gilded Lotus accelerates you from 5 to either 8 or 9 (depending on whether you play a land on your next turn). Meteorite accelerates you from 5 to either 6 or 7. Given that you are interested in a 5 CMC manarock, I'm asuming you have a top-heavy curve that needs mana fixing. I run a good amount of mana fixing, so the mana fixing issue shouldn't be a problem most of the time. One mana of a color should be just as good as three mana of that color for fixing purposes. Therefore, for Gilded Lotus to be better than Meteorite, the extra 2 mana needs to be more relevant than the 2 damage.
That's your incentive to want more mana. If you have the land, only Devil's Play, Craterhoof Behemoth, Nicol Bolas and Maelstrom Wanderer remain. Meanwhile, there are around 90 creatures with toughness 2 or less, and worst case you burn your opponent for 2. The funny thing is that most cube owners wouldn't think twice about including Gilded Lotus because it is such a powerful and iconic card, but Meteorite isn't even considered.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
The thing though is that its not just a question of accelerating you into a top end or mana fixing. Gilded lotus lets you sequence out more plays in a turn, which is a big deal. In fact, it lets you sequence out an additional play the turn that its cast, unlike meteorite which has to kill something or is just a big tempo hit.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Darling I think my point is that I'm super super rarely interested in a 5 mana rock in all but the most idiotic of formats.
I want a cheaper meteorite.
I dunno I've drafted the new set 5-6 times now and sealed twice, I've cubed maybe 6-7 times in the last couple months, played some constructed testing with buddies when the format was fresh.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Darling?
Anyway, according to your quote you found my statement hard to believe. If I post that in my experience Meteorite plays better than Gilded Lotus, how am I to infer that your real point is that you're not interested in a 5 CMC manarock period, rather than your point being, you know, that it is hard to believe Meteorite plays better than Gilded Lotus? Another thing in favor of Meteorite (over Gilded Lotus) is that it is not just a manarock. It's an expensive, but colorless shock that also happens to be a manarock.You can get as pedantic as you like bootman, I find it hard to believe anyone is a fan, and I find it hard to believe people play one over the other because in the formats where you are playing lotus you are doing it to enable awful cubes that want to do degen things, people who aren't into degeneracy don't play 5 mana lands with a lot of opportunity cost.
You know what I mean, it seems like a hard card to be a fan of. It's perfect for an edit, it's like a dropped ball in every sense of the word. I mean it was hardly okay in normsybaby draft. Anyway I don't want to spend all day arguing which of a couple of do nothing 5cc permanents is better. If you are Greg Hatch Guilded Lotus is probably better, if you like killing small things in the end game for 5 mana that will require something like 4 turns to buy back your tempo back than meteorite is probz for you.
I guess you can sacrifice it to tinker if you really need to look through your deck.
Anyway I'm gonna read the rest of this and cross my fingers we aren't talking about a meteorite cube.
You know what I mean, it seems like a hard card to be a fan of. It's perfect for an edit, it's like a dropped ball in every sense of the word. I mean it was hardly okay in normsybaby draft. Anyway I don't want to spend all day arguing which of a couple of do nothing 5cc permanents is better. If you are Greg Hatch Guilded Lotus is probably better, if you like killing small things in the end game for 5 mana that will require something like 4 turns to buy back your tempo back than meteorite is probz for you.
I guess you can sacrifice it to tinker if you really need to look through your deck.
Anyway I'm gonna read the rest of this and cross my fingers we aren't talking about a meteorite cube.
I'm going to give meteorite a try, it's one of those cards you want to like. It has more applications than lotus, I know about all the denegenerate mana stuff, and that's fine but not what I want. The meteorite has other applications like welder recursion and flickerwisping. Yeah, it might be terrible, but lets give it a try. I want to believe.
What about a 3-mana 1-damage ping?