General How to make white aggro not suck.

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Is there a Planeswalker I should be running? Break down and just run Armageddon for a win-rate boost?

What do you like about white aggro, and how can we make it better and more fun to play?
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Land Tax, equipment geared toward aggro, a saturation of good, aggressive 1- and 2-drops, ways to get damage through.

I don't know, what makes white aggro fun? I don't think you can make straight up white aggro fun for people who are not into aggressive strategies anyway, it's an archetype that either pushes your buttons or not I think. Personally I think it's fun to start attacking from turn 2, outmaneuvering a deck with abstractly more powerful cards, that your opponent can't utilize properly because you are pressuring them.
 
Maybe we can try to sneak in a theme of blocker punishing with the help of protection from color and tappers? To help making connecting with equipment easier.

Also one way to skyrocket white weenie is to play the swords and stoneforge but you know uh.. that's package has whole threads about it about being game ruining garbage
 
Break singleton on Imposing Sovereign and Thalia?
Those are probably my favorite white aggro cards at the two-drop slot.

I think tax effects are a cool aspect of {W} that get really relevant in spell-matters cubes. I've definitely had drafts where Thalia+Horse locked my mass removal out of playability and ground me into the dust while i cast four mana doom blades. I'd be super stoked to see white forget about 3/1s for {1}{W} and instead get all-in on a hatebears/taxes/disruption plan. Like what if Judge's Familiar were a 2/1 flier, and you could curve it into Thalia and Horse or Spiketails Hatchling and Drakeling, and then maybe GAAIV to hammer it home as a disruptive theme? What would it take to have Containment Priest be a typical two-drop?

I really like the idea of overcommitting to the board as a protective strategy and am curious about how to encourage it.
 

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
Taxes are a good idea, I'm just not sure the variety is there yet. A Savannah Lion or Mistral Charger with Judge's Familiar text would be a big step in the right direction, but the lion would a powerhouse of a card and the Pegasus would kinda be a weak Thalia, so its tough to get a another good design there. I don't think we're reading to start cubing Thorns and Spheres, but Lodestone Golem is pretty playable.
 
When I played Standard in the mid-2000s, I found white tappers, Otherworldly Journey and Shining Shoal to give WW throughput. I have also played a lot of Classic and Vintage hatebears. In those formats, the creatures often were outclassed and couldn't attack, even if they did throw a wrench or 3 into the opponent's plans. Luckily, at the time, Young Pyro wasn't around, and most decks with creatures were artifact-based (and very vulnerable to hatebears). Leonin Arbiter was an all star in Classic (and seems okay with 20 some fetches).

Lastly, though, the best way to ramp up the performance of WW is reducing the efficacy of defensive measures in the environment. Two-drop 2/xs and Savannah Lions paired with equip/anthems are going to trumped easily in combat and by post-Mythic creatures, not to mention the old class of spells that kept WW down in the past. Something like Snap and a removal spell should beat WW by itself in a fair share of games. :(

Edit: in MTGO cubes, I often enjoyed lower-curve white creatures with the ability to manipulate board presence to support midrange decks. Think 8.5 tails.
 

Aoret

Developer
I really enjoyed being on the taxes plan when I played safra's cube. It made playing WG aggro palatable for me, which is saying a lot. The only reason I didn't immediately jam these cards into my own cube is that control can barely win atm. If you aren't having that problem I say absolutely go for it.
 
If you run enough fetches, Leonin Arbiter might be something worth looking at?
But my cube's typical 2-1 to 3-0 UW aggressive deck core looks like this:


Y'know, stuff like that. Kira and Clique are pretty sweet too, if you own those.
Also, I'm not a huge fan of blink, but I am a huge fan of Flickerwisp. It is SO VERSATILE!
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
I don't know if you can really think of it as white aggro without taking into account other colors. W/g lends itself to vertical growth, w/b recursive, w/r horizontal growth, hyper aggro, or recursive, and w/u more velocity driven or disruptive.

There are various decent pieces of tech within the color that can support those strategies, but straight white aggro seems dreadfully boring.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, I don't mean monowhite aggro, but white feels like the boring part of any W/X combo.

Does anyone still run three-manager Ajani?
 

CML

Contributor
Angelic Destiny and Sublime Archangel are things.

I'm not sure if White aggro goes well by itself.

It's got to be better with Wastelands.

The midrange threats at 4 mana are essential to making it work, which makes it less aggro.

Most of the White 1-drops don't work well in Zoo-style decks.
 
Yeah, I don't mean monowhite aggro, but white feels like the boring part of any W/X combo.

Does anyone still run three-manager Ajani?

Yeah, I'm still jamming 3-mana Ajani. My group and I enjoy playing with it, and its a great way to add pressure to the board without overcommiting. Also, it lets you choose to play verticle growth -> eventually pressure to ult OR apply immediate pressure with flying and double strike.
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Champion of the parish is still your best bet imo: works with verical growth, rewards horizontal growth, and benefits from recurring human cards. The rest of the cards in the section should work around those themes.

Let us also not forgot double strike.
 
I had this BW list a while back, it's typical of what I'd want to see from that archetype. The big problem with white weenie is that you have such a small window to push in damage before you're outclassed, but increasing your critical mass of early drops with double Bloodsoaked really really helps. You're looking for that last bit of reach to close out games/apply serious pressure most of the time. For that, I've found cards like Tangle Wire and Brutal Hordechief to be great for extra reach. Obviously Blood Artist is great, I've since added Zulaport Cutthroat who also put in a good amount of work in a BG aggro deck a while back.

This was the BW list for reference:

BW Humans feat. Athreos







 
The thing about the BW human deck that I like is that it sort of ties itself really naturally into a disruptive plan. You get to play both Thoughtseize and Thalia as well as doing a bunch of champion of the parish and xathrid necromancer stuff.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Yeah, I don't mean monowhite aggro, but white feels like the boring part of any W/X combo.

Does anyone still run three-manager Ajani?

I do, he's great, and the only reason I'm cutting him is because +1/+1 counters are moving into a different color.
That minus ability is scary in a good way
 

Dom Harvey

Contributor
3-mana Ajani is GREAT. Seriously, I think it's one of the most underrated Cube cards out there. If you have any remotely large creature - or a way to make a small creature into one - it can steal games you have no business winning, and curving into it with almost any 2-drop makes you a solid favourite.

Here's an example of what I want a (white) aggro deck to look like, cross-posted from another thread:








 

Laz

Developer
Does anyone still run three-manager Ajani?

You will find that is an approvals nightmare.


I have been moving away from 'balls-to-the-walls' one-dimensional aggressive decks, and trying to provide aggressive strategies that scale better as games go on. My WB decks tend to end up looking a lot like Shamizy's above, where vertical growth and recursive threats allow the deck to continue to apply pressure for far longer than it should be able.

Sublime Archangel is also a sweet card that completely changes how a go-wide deck is able to attack, I mean, look at this, tempo, shenanigans, brainstorm, what isn't there to love?

UW Tokens from CubeTutor.com









 
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