General It could happen in any number of formats
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Isn't there a UB tezzerator deck with sword of the meek/thopter foundry, and various sol lands? I see Caleb Durward play that occasionally
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Even then, 4 copies, brainstorm and ancestrals is a much higher strix uptime than one copy in the cube
CML
Contributor
Even then, 4 copies, brainstorm and ancestrals is a much higher strix uptime than one copy in the cube
quit arguing a dumb point
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Unfair things I learned about this week:
You mean...
?
But yeah, that looks plenty nasty.
If you really wanted to be fair you might include wargear on that list. Souls is super good when there are a lot of nuance ways to use it, but it seems kinda like a 2-3 turn fog against a lot of decks in some cubes if you aren't pairing it with something.
I'm really in the "include wargear" camp right now, so I don't want to extol it's virtues as an OP card but man does it highlight what midranged's main advantages in the aggro matchup are, and man does it ever negate them.
Reclamation was just hilarious and it occurred to me during the draft that I'd probably never see that combo happen again, so I thought I'd post it here! (also super good with my krosan tusker!)
I'm really in the "include wargear" camp right now, so I don't want to extol it's virtues as an OP card but man does it highlight what midranged's main advantages in the aggro matchup are, and man does it ever negate them.
Reclamation was just hilarious and it occurred to me during the draft that I'd probably never see that combo happen again, so I thought I'd post it here! (also super good with my krosan tusker!)
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, I was a bit tongue in cheek there, Grafted Wargear is certainly top of the line. It's the best equipment I want to run, as Jitte and Swords are OP bullshit and Batterskull is just a little too much in a lower powered cube.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah. I dislike all the swords in limited because I dislike permanent protection in limited. Even if isn't doing a lot of blocking, it is doing a lot of removing creature with burn and bounce, and that gets shut down as well. I don't want to run any Swords of X and Y in my cube, ever.
isn't doing a lot of blocking, it is doing a lot of removing creature with burn and bounce, and that gets shut down as well. I don't want to run any Swords of X and Y in my cube, ever.Yeah if you read my response you'd note I covered the removal side of the protection too. Remember I played with these cards in constructed formats where you'd be thinking about having to see them over and over and over. Sword of fire and ice is an issue if you've made red's removal mainly sorcery based or you involve a lot of blocking in your defensive plan for blue decks, or if removal in your cube is just awful in general (this is kinda beside the point of protection abilities though, and applies to pretty much any efficiently costed equipment, though it is exacerbated by the protection abilities further complicating your neutered removal and bad removal formats tend to rely more on blocking).
Lets imagine this without the protection: If you aren't hitting that bear with the bolt in response to equipping, the bolt wasn't exactly going to be killing a 4/4 anyway. I know it can be used in conjunction with other damage like blocks or another card, but it wasn't like you were getting rid of the equipment, you'll just make them spend 2 more mana to put it somewhere else for your 2 cards.
My line here is that the protection on sofi is actually rarely relevant to red and blue decks in any big way. It's rarely relevant at all EXCEPT when it comes to multicolour cards, where things get more complicated. Mainly you can just consider it an enormous equipment that forces your opponents to play correctly lol.
Lets imagine this without the protection: If you aren't hitting that bear with the bolt in response to equipping, the bolt wasn't exactly going to be killing a 4/4 anyway. I know it can be used in conjunction with other damage like blocks or another card, but it wasn't like you were getting rid of the equipment, you'll just make them spend 2 more mana to put it somewhere else for your 2 cards.
My line here is that the protection on sofi is actually rarely relevant to red and blue decks in any big way. It's rarely relevant at all EXCEPT when it comes to multicolour cards, where things get more complicated. Mainly you can just consider it an enormous equipment that forces your opponents to play correctly lol.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I think we have to agree to disagree here, because I hate Sword of Fire and Ice as much as any other Sword of X and Y in limited. I lost to it multiple times playing a red deck, and boy would I have loved to chumpblock with a do-nothing creature while winning the damage race on the crackback. Except, I couldn't chump, my opponent buried me in card advantage, and I couldn't race because he was outdamaging me when connecting. That is just my opinion though, don't let my hate of the card (in limited, I can't stress this enough) hold you back.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
So interestingly, I've got an equipment in my cube that is sword of light and shadow without the lifegain or protections (2 to cast) and for the longest time I felt it was super underpowered, nobody was playing it etc etc
Someone curved it into huntmaster, and I felt really on the back foot for quite a while. The 4 toughness thing is real
(I eventually solved this problem by going Inferno Titan, Clone, Clone)Yeah I more or less see the sword as a card advantage engine that makes your elves not useless in the late game etc.
Onderzeboot: I don't know what to tell ya, we've all lost like that. Did you feel like you would have won feeding it red 2/1s the rest of the game until your killed your opponent? Did you feel like you deserved that game but protection was just too strong for your red blockers strategy? I know it really sucks for the aggro deck when a value creature is allowed to have a sword on it uncontested but I'm pretty sure that's when my game has already gone south.
Do you just feel like it's leading to 6 or more power attacks against decks that don't block is just too much? or is it the fact that it is capable of reducing your capacity to race it with each hit?
My main problem with it is that you may catch people unaware who were unwilling to hold removal or diversify their removal.
Onderzeboot: I don't know what to tell ya, we've all lost like that. Did you feel like you would have won feeding it red 2/1s the rest of the game until your killed your opponent? Did you feel like you deserved that game but protection was just too strong for your red blockers strategy? I know it really sucks for the aggro deck when a value creature is allowed to have a sword on it uncontested but I'm pretty sure that's when my game has already gone south.
Do you just feel like it's leading to 6 or more power attacks against decks that don't block is just too much? or is it the fact that it is capable of reducing your capacity to race it with each hit?
My main problem with it is that you may catch people unaware who were unwilling to hold removal or diversify their removal.
I agree with onderzeeboot here, lucre you're way off. You lose the ability to race, even when you don't take removal into effect.
I think that's the scary part to me. It's the shock. It's not really the protection. If it weren't shocking my idiots I could still be racing or forcing it to block because red is actually really good at forcing large creatures into defensive positions, because it's removal, if ineffective against a large body, is still effective in pressuring life totals.
Oh I thought of another example of when SOFIs protection is relevant: Flametongue!
Oh and another one: It's really good if your format forces control decks to go into a 3rd colour for more removal because boy is a lot of multicoloured removal blue or red.
Oh I thought of another example of when SOFIs protection is relevant: Flametongue!
Oh and another one: It's really good if your format forces control decks to go into a 3rd colour for more removal because boy is a lot of multicoloured removal blue or red.
CML
Contributor
I actually think Lucas has some good points here. But what they fail to provide to me are any compelling reasons to run the cards. "It's not that bad" isn't the form of defense I'm looking for.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I strongly dislike the fact that if all my dudes had been green but otherwise the same, I could have won the game. I'm not saying I would have, but chumping with a guy that would get shocked anyway is better than taking 3+ to the face and having your opponent draw a card. With protection from a color (the Swords of X and Y especially) it's so easy to be randomly locked out of the game just because you happened to opened powerful cards in the wrong color. It punishes you for not doing anything wrong, and that's why I have such a strong dislike for protection from a color.
PS. Protection from card types, like on Mirror Golem, and temporary flexible protection, like on Gods Willing, is fine though. Both of those generally hose different draft decks equally.
Hahahaha yeah colour issues are weird with those cards. My initial response to any statement like that is that you'd be playing a very different deck if you were in green. The blocking aspect would be way more relevant but you might also not be able to kill or bounce the equip target in response etc.
One of my bigger issues with the swords is that the ability grouping isn't acknowledging the nature of the protections to create a balanced and harmonious card.
I also find it really weird how protection from one colour encourages opponents diversifying but protection from two colours almost always feels like you are doing splash damage to yourself by being diverse.
One of my bigger issues with the swords is that the ability grouping isn't acknowledging the nature of the protections to create a balanced and harmonious card.
I also find it really weird how protection from one colour encourages opponents diversifying but protection from two colours almost always feels like you are doing splash damage to yourself by being diverse.