General Life Gain as a Thing

FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
I'm working in the voltron/heroic/enchantment theme slowly so I'm not 100% sure how it'll be, but thus far Ordeal of Thassa was definitely the best enabler in a couple of the white/blue heroic decks I've played. Ordeal of Heliod did not come up in the two drafts I played since adding it, so I have no anecdotal feedback.

The main issue is figuring out exactly what the impact of +10 life is. I've never run any card even kind of like this before. I guess it can buy you a turn or two in a losing game which will give you a chance to better milk your OP white card of choice. It gives you a nice cushion to milk Erebus, Phyrexian Reclamation and Necropotence. I actually added this in as a player request after he saw the work ordeal of thassa did in my decks and I am cautiously optimistic.

It only gives you life once, so its a pretty poor pridemate enabler, but it will get Path of Bravery turned back on in a hurry, after which it can milk its own trigger to keep itself on. The question is whether there is a coherent deck that can both 1) Protect its enchanted creature and 2) wants an anthem.
 
CML

CML

Contributor
10 life is a lot, but that and path of bravery are pretty weak cards, i have a hard time imagining a cube with low enough power level to run either

someone want to make a "pants" thread?
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Fuck man you might as well be the new billy mays for how well you're selling this to me.
Sigh. I guess I might as well at some point
 
Laz

Laz

Developer
I suppose that the big overhanging issue of pushing life gain is the effect that cheap life gain has on aggro. Are cube aggro decks efficient at fighting through 25-30 life as opposed to just 20?
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Red might, but most other colors don't usually have that problem.

Also if the life is on aggro cards, or in small ammounts (Or both, as is the case in path of bravery) it should be managable.
Like, I'm probably not reintroducing faith's fetters, but Suture Priest is sweet, much more so than lone missionary

I'm considering:
Triple Pridemate (540 cube, so 1.5x jason's regular 360)
Double soldier of the pantheon
Archangel of Thune (I'd been proxying baneslayer all this time, seems fine to me)
Swift Justice (Double Strike Baby)
Gift of Orzhova (See above)
Path of Bravery
Double Blood Artist (I was looking to add another incentive card for the gravecrawler deck anyways)

This is in addition to the already present
Suture Priest
Blind Obediance
Ajani Goldmane

Did I miss anything? I don't really see searing meditation being a direction for this deck, since name another red card this deck wants
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
I wouldn't really :p

Too bad searing meditation makes no bloody sense as a mono white card. Sure there's sunlance, but I don't really buy white doing repeated shock
 
Changling Bob

Changling Bob

Yeah, that was pretty much the only thing that sprang to mind, but it's a pretty good card. I'd probably splash the red for it and searing meditation in the WB deck.

Red seems to get a bunch of 'convert $mechanic to damage' cards. Flame rift works, this seems less at that end of the spectrum.

I really want flamespeaker adept to be viable, but can't think of an environment that particularly works in; I think you'd end up distorting and diluting that UR spells deck to have more scry cards, or you have to do something weird and durdly to get this aggressive creature going. Anyway, that's a different thread's discussion.
 
CML

CML

Contributor
Laz said:
I suppose that the big overhanging issue of pushing life gain is the effect that cheap life gain has on aggro. Are cube aggro decks efficient at fighting through 25-30 life as opposed to just 20?
Click to expand...


should be OK, remember this is curve-out aggro and not burn. the best analogy i can think of is how nobody played heroes' reunion against the rakdos deck in RTR draft. or like if they played a thragtusk into your board of rakdos cackler, ash zealot, pyreheart wolf, hellrider, who cares. things start getting hairy if you have soul warden to face down master of waves or restoration angel to go with that tusk (and a trostani, selesnya's voice and rhox faithmender!) but a little lifegain is imo just good design. a similar concept is how kitchen finks and/or day of judgment used to just stop aggro in its tracks over here, but then we buffed aggro and have a nice 'dynamic equilibrium' thing going on to the point where jason and i can throw in a bunch of sweepers and watch games of 'what does he have?' instead of 'does he have it?' transpire once weekly
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Chris Taylor said:
Red might, but most other colors don't usually have that problem.

Also if the life is on aggro cards, or in small ammounts (Or both, as is the case in path of bravery) it should be managable.
Like, I'm probably not reintroducing faith's fetters, but Suture Priest is sweet, much more so than lone missionary

I'm considering:
Triple Pridemate (540 cube, so 1.5x jason's regular 360)
Double soldier of the pantheon
Archangel of Thune (I'd been proxying baneslayer all this time, seems fine to me)
Swift Justice (Double Strike Baby)
Gift of Orzhova (See above)
Path of Bravery
Double Blood Artist (I was looking to add another incentive card for the gravecrawler deck anyways)

This is in addition to the already present
Suture Priest
Blind Obediance
Ajani Goldmane

Did I miss anything? I don't really see searing meditation being a direction for this deck, since name another red card this deck wants
Click to expand...

I think I am going to do Triple Pridemate at 360 to start, as I tend to overpush in the beginning to see if it works and then scale it back if needed. This is actually a Sirlin design technique. Effectively, your playtesters need to be sold on the idea, and if they are of the impression that it's not powerful, incremental improvements afterwards can make it hard for them to get on board. Far better for them to get excited about it, think it's OP, then tone it down.

I will try Searing Meditation. I don't necessarily even think you need many red cards to make it work, as red can just be a splash color. But, Ajani Vengeant does naturally synergize, as he causes lifegain without spending mana. The primary lifegain colors are junk {W}{G}{B}, but a red splash from {W}{G} or {W}{B} seems perfectly manageable.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Is this dude worth running?
Image.ashx


If so, suggest a cut:
Carrion Feeder
Carrion Feeder
Gravecrawler
Gravecrawler
Gravecrawler
Gravecrawler

Blood Artist
Dark Confidant
Skirsdag High Priest [Blood Artist]
Oona's Prowler
Bloodghast
Bloodghast
Rotting Rats

Bone Shredder
Vampire Nighthawk
Geralf's Messenger
Fleshbag Marauder
Lifebane Zombie
Pawn of Ulamog

Skinrender
Disciple of Bolas
Abyssal Persecutor
Nekrataal

Shriekmaw
Bloodgift Demon

Grave Titan
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
------------------------------ (28)

Snuff Out

Innocent Blood
Tragic Slip
Undying Evil
Thoughtseize
Inquisition of Kozilek
Duress
Entomb
Unearth
Cabal Therapy

Doom Blade
Chainer's Edict
Go for the Throat
Smallpox
Hymn to Tourach
Demonic Tutor
Bitterblossom

Hero's Downfall
Liliana of the Veil
Phyrexian Arena
Toxic Deluge
Curse of Shallow Graves

Consuming Vapors
Damnation
------------------------------ (23)
 
Changling Bob

Changling Bob

Given how aggressive your cube is, possibly not; however, this lifegain theme will probably slow it down a touch, and on the gripping hand, Erebos counters the lifegain theme. I would try and squeeze it in, almost certainly for a non-creature. If you swap out a kill spell, that makes black slightly weaker vs fast creature decks. Swapping out a discard spell is more likely to cover the same bases, although it'll make you black slightly weaker vs non-lifegain 'combo' decks. He's sort of directly a value enchantment, but I'm guessing you don't want to ditch phyrexian arena or bitterblossom, as they pretty much define value enchantments in black. Maybe curse of shallow graves? I guess that provides more sacrifice fodder, which doesn't get replaced. On the other hand he can become a 5/7 indestructible on top of being casual value.

I guess what I'm saying is I have no idea, but there's some more thoughts you might not have had about it?
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

Duress is certainly cuttable. Inquisition, Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy are all better and three of those is probably enough.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

I've been on the fence about the black god honestly. I like mono black, so it appeals to me from that angle, but I think devotion is really hard to hit (in cube) and therefore the non-creature parts of the card need to be worth it IMO. Shutting down life gain (something black wants) and paying life and mana to draw a card don't seem worth paying 4 to me. But by all means test it and let us know if it's good.

Again, from a theoretical standpoint I love devotion, so I'll be easy to convince here if there's anything positive to be had with it. I'm already running the blue and red gods.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Black, at least in my cube, will be the easiest to get Devotion online for, mainly because its permanents never go away.
 
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