General "Looking for a card"-Thread

TrainmasterGT

TrainmasterGT

Mown said:
You would not consider drafting around noncreature artifacts unless you had access to DRC?
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It's more that it's an essential tool for Cube designers who want to encourage artifact decks working with noncreature artifacts. There really are not a lot of cards that act as payoffs for specifically doing noncreature artifact shenanigans– they're mostly cards that turn noncreature artifacts into creatures like Alloy Animist, Animating Faerie, and March of the Machines. If you want to encourage drafters to use noncreature artifacts specifically, you're going to need to lean into cards that care more broadly about noncreature spells.

Dragon's Rage Channeler specifically is a great option for this role because it plays nicely with other cards that tend to be used in conjunction with noncreature artifacts. For example, Emry, Lurker of the Loch's main purpose in many decks is to loop cheap eggs like Pyrite Spellbomb and Witching Well. DRC is great in decks using this sort of play pattern, since it both gives players a way to dump more artifacts into the graveyard and can be a good cheap win condition once a certain number of things have hit the yard.
 
LadyMapi

LadyMapi

Depending on the artifacts...



In a grindy environment, this is a pretty solid card. Sure, it gives your opponent a choice, which is usually bad, but the thing about those kinds of cards is that they get WAY stronger if you can chain them. "Let me draw one of my eggs or I'll bolt your face" seems like an easy decision until you're asking your opponent to make it multiple times a turn.
 
Hemlock

Hemlock

Rusje said:


edit: yes I play lowest power
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Right now Welder is all I've got in that role and my red 5s are currently underwhelming and not dragons. I think I'm going to give this beast a try.
I have misgivings about big flyers in my environment, but there's only one way to find out right?
 
Rusje

Rusje

Hemlock said:
Right now Welder is all I've got in that role and my red 5s are currently underwhelming and not dragons. I think I'm going to give this beast a try.
I have misgivings about big flyers in my environment, but there's only one way to find out right?
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Yes, try it. It is strong but there is a surprising tension. Do I dare to cast it with only one artifact in play?
 
ravnic

ravnic

I've tried Covetous dragon in the past and I liked it quite a bit. It doesn't require you to flood the board with artifacts, which lowers his opportunity or set up cost. Comparable almost to Thopter Spy Network or Stone Haven Pilgrim.

However, what I like best for colored and/or nonartifact cards that are payoffs for artifact tribal, are cards that can be played in decks that don't really care about artifacts as well, like Mirrodin Besieged. Examples from this thread, which I will most like choose one frome, are Breya's Apprentice or Pia Nalaar.

However, I wonder if this new toy could get there too as a split card of artifact payoff or artifact hate:

 
ravnic

ravnic

Onderzeeboot said:
I feel like Gleeful Demolition requires a specific breed of artifacts to be good. Destroying one of your own artifacts is a serious downside, unless you destroy something like Ichor Wellspring, and three 1/1 bodies aren't enough of an upside in most decks to warrant that cost, I think.
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Yeah, that's what holding me back too.

Do you think upgrading a servo or treasure token is good enough? Or the blood you got from turn 1 Voldaren Epicure?

Personally, looking through my list, I only have these artifacts that wouldn't mind being demolished at some point:



plus these token makers:



My gut tells me that I'm personally not getting there for this yet.
 
ravnic

ravnic

I'd cut:
Time Wipe for being so easily replaceable with a monocolor card
Silumgar because I dislike hexproof and it doesn't do anything special
Rakdos Cackler because it belongs in a hybrid (or mono) section
Xenagos I guess ..?
Finks because it's totally not a gold card as well
Ashen Rider because it isn't going to be hardcast anyway I guess?
Izzet -> one of the hybrids
Grist because I personally don't like it's design. Weirdly sometimes being a creature, insect tribal ...
Warleaders Helix because one Helix should be enough
Quandrix Command because it just doesn't spark joy when I read it
 
TrainmasterGT

TrainmasterGT

ravnic said:
Rakdos Cackler because it belongs in a hybrid (or mono) section
Finks because it's totally not a gold card as well
Izzet -> one of the hybrids
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I have the hybrids in the gold sections because there isn't a full set of color-balanced hybrids I want to run. I'm not particularly worried about the technicalities of the spreadsheet here other beyond the increased number of enemy golds than allied.

Just based on what these four hybrid cards do, would you still cut them?
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

A lot of these comes down to personal preferences, here are mine!

Time Wipe, Grisly Salvage: You can find mono colored equivalents at the same rate.

Rakdos Cackler: You don't run Black aggro and Red has a ton of one drops already.

Advent of the Wurm: Your Green section already has a bunch of 4 drops, I don't think you need another (plus Resto, Emperor and Ambusher already fill the 4 drop slot for flash).

Damn: Very powerful, but you have the same effects in either White or Black. If you had it outside of multicolored, I would like it more.

Warleader's Helix: A lot worse than Lightning Helix which you also run.

Decisive Denial: Not a bad card, but I find it less interesting than Quandrix Command.

Blistercoil Weird: Unexciting compared to other spells matter payoffs.

Xenagos: I like cheap planeswalker and big dragon more, see personal preferences!

Silumgar: Seems like Black already has a lot of ways to clean up tokens, so the ability seems a bit lost on it? Hexproof is nice compared to Junji and Kairi who get hosed hard against White's exile effects. Still probably a little too slow to finish a game in a timely manner.
 
alvoi

alvoi

TrainmasterGT said:
What's one card from each of these two-color combinations that is less good/less fun/less interesting/less powerful than the other cards in it's gold section?
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/16y6?f=ci=2+-t:land&view=spoiler
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So, one card for each 2-colour combination:

Azorius: I agree with the others, Time Wipe is unnecessary if you could just play Wrath/DoJ/Doomskar/...
Dimir: I don't like Silumgar's hexproof, while Ojutai is interesting since if you want to attack you have to put his shield down, Silumgar is just there with his asymmetrical nausea effect and the opponent can't do much. Then, maybe I hate too much hexproof
Rakdos: yeah the Cackler is the one I would cut. KCommand is exactly what I want a multicoloured card to be, and Kroxa is a nice card
Gruul: Xenagos seems bad(?) Idk I never played with it, but Atarka and Wrenn are on two other levels
Selesnya: Advent of the Wurm could be anything else in just green, like Elephant Ambush or something
Orzhov: Damn? It's a nice split card, but I notice that usually when I draft it, it gets passed by players with white that don't notice that it's just a Wrath of God with upside...
Izzet: Blistercoil Weird unless you do strange combos with it
Golgari: Garruk is underwhelming with respect to the others. Also, you could cut Grisly Salvage for Mulch and add something like Pernicious Deed
Boros: Warleader's Helix is simply bad
Simic: is BtL really a Simic card? I would put it under 5-colour since well, usually you want to cast it for at least 3 or 4... paying 5 mana to tutor up a 2-drop is bad
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
TrainmasterGT said:
I have the hybrids in the gold sections because there isn't a full set of color-balanced hybrids I want to run. I'm not particularly worried about the technicalities of the spreadsheet here other beyond the increased number of enemy golds than allied.

Just based on what these four hybrid cards do, would you still cut them?
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I wouldn't cut the hybrids. One can debate where hybrids should be put, but one thing I am personally a very firm believer of, is that they should under (edit: almost) no circumstance be regarded as gold cards (edit: except if, as Taamas rightly points out, the number of hybrid pips reaches a certain point, in my opinion three hybrid symbols means you are a gold card (that is hard to splash), one or two is fine). E.g., when I look at your Rakdos section, I see only two gold cards. You're undoubtedly aware of this, but a gold card can be played in 1 out of 10 color pairs, and 3 out of 10 color trios. A hybrid, on the other hand, can be played in a whopping 7 out of 10 color pairs, and 9 out of 10 color trios. That is more than single color cards, which can be played in 4 out of 10 color pairs and 6 out of 10 color trios. In other words, gold card and hybrids operate in opposite ways of each other, as far as splashability is concerned.

TrainmasterGT said:
What's one card from each of these two-color combinations that is less good/less fun/less interesting/less powerful than the other cards in it's gold section?
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/16y6?f=ci=2+-t:land&view=spoiler
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{W/U}: While I agree Time Wipe is the most replacable effect, it's still nice to be able to rebuy an etb effect or your big beater once your opponent rebuilds. I have no experience with Shorikai, Genesis Engine, but it looks a bit boring to me, despite having a million words. That would be my cut.
{U/B}: I hate Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. It's just not a fun card to sit across from. I have cubed with Silumgar in the past, and the hexproof wasn't problematic because it's a 3-power six drop. It's fine that the card gets some extra resiliency.
{B/R}: Needs no cut because Rakdos Cackler is not a gold card.
{R/G}: I second (third? fourth?) cutting Xenagos, God of Revels, unless Wrenn and Six is causing problems.
{G/W}: Needs no cuts because Kitchen Finks is not a gold card. I will say that this gold section is really underwhelming compared to the others. Neither Selesnya Charm nor Advent of the Wurm are pulling me into {G/W}. Knight of Autumn, Conclave Mentor (if +1/+1 counters are a theme), Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist, Travel Preparations, Fleecemane Lion, or even good old Knight of the Reliquary all would appeal more to me than your current two.
{W/B}: Similarly to hybrid cards, Damn isn't really a gold card. It's a split card with two good modes. I would cut a black or white card instead instead.
{U/R}: So, you actually have two hybrid cards in this section, but Blistercoil Weird seems the most shaky of all five cards. I would cut that one, or replace it by an actual gold Izzet card.
{B/G}: Neither Garruk, Cursed Huntsman, nor Grisly Salvage seem really worth it.
{R/W}: Figure of Destiny is actually mana-intensive enough that it quickly starts to feel like a gold card instead of a hybrid card (starting at the {R/W}{R/W}{R/W} activation cost). I'ld cut Warleader's Helix as the most underwhelming Boros card.
{G/U}: As a counterpoint to alvoi's argument, I think thatBring to Light can be the perfect Simic card, if that color pair is usually the home of five color good stuff. I think Quandrix Command is the least exciting.
 
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Taamas

Taamas

I would like to bring out a point about hybrid cards I think is important and often overlooked. It's fine to consider hybrid cards to be more playable than monocolor cards in opposition to gold cards, which are less playable than monocolor cards. But this is true only depending on the number of colored pips on the cards. Yes, a cost of {B/R} fits in more decks than a cost of {B}{R}, but we can not say the same about a cost of {B/R}{B/R}{B/R}{B/R}. I'd like to read what you think of this, but I think a high number of hybrid pips points stronger to a two-color deck of those colors than a gold cost of one of each. A black or red deck can probably cast Dreadbore easier by splashing than Elite Headhunter just with their black or red sources.

Maybe this is basic mana cost judgement, the same way we consider Cryptic Command only for a highly blue deck, but I think it is important to take into account when the assumption that hybrid cards are more open than gold cards doesn't really hold up.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
No worries, I didn’t go into much detail, so it definitely was a point worth expounding!

Edit: I also used the phrase "under no circumstance", which was unfortunate in hindsight. I should have proof-readed my response, but it was getting rather long, and I was at work XD
 
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