Card/Deck Low Power Card Spotlight
- Thread starter Grillo_Parlante
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Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Speaking of RAV standard formats, I have to get this off my chest
These cards are great!
These cards are great!
I really like that Firemane control deck. You are running Firemane Angel aren't you? How is that? I feel like the power comes from having multiple in your yard (so feels lackluster in cube). But I never played with it much, so could be wrong.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Firemane is pretty insane. With a combination of bounceland fueled ramp, and a slower pace of play, every part of the card is relevant. The body and stats are dominating in combat, the graveyard lifegain means it can be dumped into the yard for early game relevance, and the recursion provides inevitability. It slots naturally into the R/W midrange decks as a recursive bomb to close games out with, being probably their second strongest finisher behind jor kadeen.
The best analogy is eternal dragon, with the differences being that firemane is a better late game recursive threat, but eternal dragon is easier to use in the early game.
Just a great card. When I was drafting against Kirblinx (the draft where I built that R/B aggro deck) I prioritized it as a pick after he grabbed skeletal vampire. My draft was still waifing around at that point, and I felt I needed some late game bomb to help counter skeletal, in case I ended up in a slower deck.
And I consider skeletal vampire to be the strongest raw card in that cube, to help put in perspective how dangerous firemane has been.
The best analogy is eternal dragon, with the differences being that firemane is a better late game recursive threat, but eternal dragon is easier to use in the early game.
Just a great card. When I was drafting against Kirblinx (the draft where I built that R/B aggro deck) I prioritized it as a pick after he grabbed skeletal vampire. My draft was still waifing around at that point, and I felt I needed some late game bomb to help counter skeletal, in case I ended up in a slower deck.
And I consider skeletal vampire to be the strongest raw card in that cube, to help put in perspective how dangerous firemane has been.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I think thats really what holds it back in other formats. Over here, bouncelands let you include a ramp component in effectively every deck. You can see that in the screen shot where its turn 9, and B8R is on nine mana, due to double bounce (and can actually make 11 with krosan restorer).
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Here was what firemane was doing in constructed back than btw
B/R/W
R/W Variants
Flores' Own Deck
B/R/W
R/W Variants
Flores' Own Deck
I'm currently running Firemane Avenger, and it's not OP and sort of fun trying to trigger the lightning helix (full art promo looks nice too). I feel like angel wants to be discarded because the life gain trigger feels like the best part of the card (so U or B as the third color). 4/3 flying first strike is solid but at 6 mana aggressive midrange is not a fan (at 5 mana I think they would be). I have no good place for it with the way my modules are currently configured and that bums me out a bit because it's a cool card. Every time someone mentions it, I want to play it. You raving about it is not helping either. lol
So, how do we feel about this 'mythic uncommon' from Ori?
So, I am terribly late to the discussion, but thought I would throw my thoughts into this matter (since my name was being thrown around).
The Skeletal Vampire did indeed save his bacon. He was getting beaten down by 2 3/3 flying golems. That was only source of air defense at that point. Grave Titan is indeed a stronger card. Heck, even Cloudgoat Ranger can be better due to costing one less and putting out an extra guy. but neither of them would have help in situation he was in. The vampire was ideal. Then when the Cutthroat came down, I knew I was in trouble, even if the ability casts 5 mana, inevitability is inevitability.
The point that you had never mentioned was that the large body can protect itself. This part is huge and what none of the other aforementioned cards offer. This card is great against removal (even though mass removal neuters your bat engine, it still lives!) and proves to be a real headache. Plus each of the 5 mana you are spending is not just another small evasive threat but also another potential protective shield for your large evasive beater and mana sink.
Trust me, once you are on the other side of this card (in a low power environment) you have to think real hard on how to get past this thing.
Also:
I personally LOVE Crater Hellion. I have thrown in my cube. I even threw him in my submission for Jason's contest. It was the fist rare I ever saw in action and I was amazed. It still holds up relatively well today. I like to think of it as my pivot for RG ramp control archetype as it does exactly what that deck wants, clear the board and drop fatties, which this is all in one card. Plus that art, I mean just look at it:
Why wouldn't you want to cube this tentacle monster?
Both of these cards are great, but I prefer Caldera Hellion due to lack of echo, lower CMC and +1/+1 counter synergy. Crater Hellion saw a decent amount of play in Urza's Saga Block and Standard Sneak Attack. It may have also been played in Wildfire after Tempest rotated (or in block, can't clearly remember).
It's unfortunate Sneak is a billion dollars; it was fun with Shivan Phoenix and Weatherseed Treefolk.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Ah... simpler times; sneak attack into shivan phoenix, take three rawr!
I really like Crater Hellion's design, the artwork, and echo is a really great keyword that works well with graveyard or sacrifice strategies.
I suppose Caldera Hellion can do very similar work, it just doesn't look like it would have the same bomb feel as crater hellion.
I really like Crater Hellion's design, the artwork, and echo is a really great keyword that works well with graveyard or sacrifice strategies.
I suppose Caldera Hellion can do very similar work, it just doesn't look like it would have the same bomb feel as crater hellion.
I forgot about Caldera Hellion. And it pitches to force! I may have to shove that into my cube. Crater Hellion is much nastier though (partly because it doesn't need food and partly because it doesn't do damage to itself so can't be bolted away post trigger). And I like the critical decision you have to make on whether to pay the echo next turn. If it gets doom bladed, that's a time walk essentially, but the 6/6 beater is such a tempting morsel that you often just throw caution to the wind even against open mana (I do anyway).
Some hard-to-support low-power strategies look to be gaining tools in Oath. Here's some that I am excited about!
Equipment synergies that Might Be Playable (TM):
I have been wanting something like toll collector for a while to combine with equipment that is flashy yet overcosted to equip (e.g., Argentum Armor); the fact that the ogre can come down before the equip AND attack after activating its ability is perfect. Trainer slots well into tokens decks, is a human (finally, our race seems to be learning from the Kor) and has nice stats for a deck that aims to attack.
Possible Simic "Counters Matter" synergy cards:
Unity of Purpose seems like a great "bad removal" spell with a bit of offensive capabilities in cubes that start on turn 2 (or just don't havea lot of aggro 1 drops or cheap removal). The pup strikes me as a nice stompy card in those same cubes. And the Troll... Erhnam Djinn with sacrifice/graveyard/counter synergy implications- yum! I cannot believe I skipped over Nissa's Judgment (arguably the most playable of the cards listed); it powers up two creatures with +1/+1 counters and probably kills your opponent's best creature.
Lastly, I think an incidental allies theme is to be had in Fantasy sets (but unsure if it really transitions to a more traditional cube without lots of singleton breaking). I am just excited to look at bolster vampire and human allies in my fantasy set homage to Innistrad...
But before you go, I'll just leave this here:
Edit: Nissa's Judgment added.
Equipment synergies that Might Be Playable (TM):
I have been wanting something like toll collector for a while to combine with equipment that is flashy yet overcosted to equip (e.g., Argentum Armor); the fact that the ogre can come down before the equip AND attack after activating its ability is perfect. Trainer slots well into tokens decks, is a human (finally, our race seems to be learning from the Kor) and has nice stats for a deck that aims to attack.
Possible Simic "Counters Matter" synergy cards:
Unity of Purpose seems like a great "bad removal" spell with a bit of offensive capabilities in cubes that start on turn 2 (or just don't havea lot of aggro 1 drops or cheap removal). The pup strikes me as a nice stompy card in those same cubes. And the Troll... Erhnam Djinn with sacrifice/graveyard/counter synergy implications- yum! I cannot believe I skipped over Nissa's Judgment (arguably the most playable of the cards listed); it powers up two creatures with +1/+1 counters and probably kills your opponent's best creature.
Lastly, I think an incidental allies theme is to be had in Fantasy sets (but unsure if it really transitions to a more traditional cube without lots of singleton breaking). I am just excited to look at bolster vampire and human allies in my fantasy set homage to Innistrad...
But before you go, I'll just leave this here:
Edit: Nissa's Judgment added.
I'd like to take this moment to ignore the thing you're talking about, and ask for your expertise on Splice Onto Arcane. Currently my plan is to go hard on Flashback because it interacts so well with Prowess and the graveyard, but I really liked your reports in the Constructed thread about your kamigawa-based brew.
Would you ever consider trying to build a Splice-friendly environment? It seems like there's a lot of play to splice, despite the lack of playables - when it's time to Flame Slash, you just Flame Slash. But when you're holding Glacial Ray, you might be tempted to save it for later and try to live the dream of stapling Desperate Ritual+Ray on to all the random Kodama's Poop cards that you drafted?
The more popular cards are popular for a reason and just work better more often and are less likely to feel bad but, part of the pitch I used to get people to try cubing with me was: "Are you bored of Lightning Bolt? Have you ever wished that the big 3 color morph cards in Khans were actually castable?"
What I'm trying to say is people come to cube in part for a change of pace, a little variety, and Splice, if it can be made to work, is certainly that.
(As for the hellion, I already stuck it in the cube a few days ago, saw it in someone's list and just liked the shit out of it, so I'm glad to hear that it's got good gameplay and not just good looks!)
I'm a little nervous about cards that effectively kill 3 toughness dudes for 1 mana. And it's an instant, so that's a pretty strong effect in my cube at least. I run Sunlance now, which is about as offensive as I let my 1 mana removal get (but it's sorcery). I don't know. Removal is in a tricky place - how good do you make it? That has such an impact on how the cube will play and I'm not sure there's a right or wrong approach either. Always the hardest thing to figure out and I'm constantly second guessing myself on how much and which to run.
I'll say this. Bad removal in a rare dominated cube is generally more undesirable to me than overly good removal. Too many degenerate plays even at lower power levels and removal that is too good only hurts fringe (and potentially underpowered) archetypes, which maybe isn't a bad thing anyway. But YMMV and I wouldn't fault anyone for completely disagreeing with this position.
I'll say this. Bad removal in a rare dominated cube is generally more undesirable to me than overly good removal. Too many degenerate plays even at lower power levels and removal that is too good only hurts fringe (and potentially underpowered) archetypes, which maybe isn't a bad thing anyway. But YMMV and I wouldn't fault anyone for completely disagreeing with this position.
I'm totally not sure this is low powered, to be certain. I think it's actaully a very fair but good card, because you are losing quite a good chunk of life. One more life loss = dismember, just for reference. Anyway, this popped into my head because it kills dead:
Currently I consider Sylvan Ad as a tarmogoyf with a higher floor and a lower ceiling. I don't actually think it's low powered in the slightest, but I'm going to run it anyways to encourage ramp. Every color gets one or two "bombs" which are great on their own but gently nudge you in the direction of a particular archetype.
edittage: I react to a big green picture and miss the point!
edittage: I react to a big green picture and miss the point!
Just to be sure, the "low powered" card in question is ulcerate, in the act of killing the most likely quite high-powered Sylvan Advocate.