Card/Deck Low Power Card Spotlight

Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Ulcerate looks great:

1. Works with B/x life pay strategies
2. Shrinking effects have interesting interactions as combat tricks
3. Shrinking effects also have interesting interactions with a number of keywords (regeneration, indestructible)
4. One mana for a narrow removal spell with a real cost tacked on, seems reasonable.

Seems like a great example of efficient removal with reasonable conditionality.

If you want another sweet(er) effect like that:

 
sigh

sigh

I could keep going with affects that can kill sylvan advocate that I either run or find sweet:
searinglight.jpg


EDIT: Let me just take a second to talk about Searing Light and Last breath. Just did a count, and found that I had 134 potential things/sources of things that are removed by those two. that's 32% of the whole cube, and a whopping 70% of the creatures/creature sources??? (this doesn't count land creatures). Are we just majorly sleeping on these removal spells?

EDIT2: And strangling soot or any of the -3/-3 spells could potentially hit up to 169 creatures/creatures made by something! Now, this includes things like tokens from stuff, and that wouldn't necessarily be mana efficient, but could happen.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

Grillo_Parlante said:
Ulcerate looks great:
1. Works with B/x life pay strategies
2. Shrinking effects have interesting interactions as combat tricks
3. Shrinking effects also have interesting interactions with a number of keywords (regeneration, indestructible)
4. One mana for a narrow removal spell with a real cost tacked on, seems reasonable.
Click to expand...


I have a question on the first bullet. I feel like life payment in black (while certainly common) is bad in excessive for obvious reasons. Having life gain effects (consuming vapors, etc) helps balance this and I'm assuming that's what you are referencing. So my question is, how have you been balancing that and what have been the key cards? I have found myself struggling for good incidental life gain effects - enough to offset all the great black life payment effects. There are clearly some good options, but I feel there aren't enough to offset all the life loss cards I could be running. But maybe I'm missing a few key pieces.
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Yeah, most of our cubes are geared towards putting the creature weight within 1-3cc, for sequencing complexity, which means a lot of 1-3 damage removal is pretty powerful. Its why this guys is so good:



As for life pay, here are the total effects that grant someone life I run:



And than keep in mind the gainland + bounceland interactions.
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
A few cards I've been holding back on:



I love utility aggro creatures, in addition, both of these really speak to the complexity of commons in pre NWO design. Field Surgeon is just insane in a tokens deck, turning every combat phase into a tank session.



With so many of our creatures falling into 1-3 toughness range, the ability to incrementally grow a creature can be surprisingly relevant, and the germ body provides a defense against edict effects.

Hobble

Cantripping pacifism



Unique mana taxing effect that is actually fun.



The stats and keywords are good enough to run on its own, and it also destroys enchantments.



This seems like a really great aura to put on creatures you want to die anyways (sakura-tribe elder) or opponent's creatures for value.
 
Chriskool

Chriskool

Deftblade Elite is such a great card, playing shi-tapper while attacking, drudge shi-tkeleton on defense or the shi-tbyss with an aura/equip. Flayer Husk was always great in NMS, and I could see it over performing in formats with X/1s and a modest amount of raw card draw/selection. I imagine it gets outclassed if a player can cast spells instead of relying on already resolved permanents for mana sinks. I love cards that give a player opportunities to use their mana beyond casting spells, like the cards with monstrous or the two preceding that Grillo mentioned. (I wish monstrous was an evergreen keyword or at least a recurring one. Eldrazi could've been monstrous!)

Unrelated, I am going to buy a few Greenwarden of Murasas and Felidar Sovereigns to slot into uncommon Craw Wurm roles in fantasy sets during my OGW card acquisition. Land dragons are the best dragons in draft as most decks can interact with them beyond removal (and Eternal Witness kind of bores me anymore). I really like decks that are built to cast a cards at 6+ mana as an option for drafters.
 
Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
inscho said:
Deftblade is great. He can do some serious work for a one drop. Great with bonds of faith to start mowing critters down early.

A card that has been an all-star in peasant for me that I don't recall seeing much discussion of:



It's one of the more interesting anthem alternatives. Solid with prowess dudes and combos with thrashing wumpus/pestilence
Click to expand...

Yeah, you really did come from MTGS peasant cube forums, as that was pretty much the one card they unearthed that wasn't standard power-max. I am a big fan of the card. I did a quick search and I seem to be the only other person who has tried to talk about the card. There isn't really any point rehashing what I have already written. Good to see another person using it. Hopefully with the movement that this thread has been getting more people will give it a look this time.
Ferret said:
I'd like to take this moment to ignore the thing you're talking about, and ask for your expertise on Splice Onto Arcane. Currently my plan is to go hard on Flashback because it interacts so well with Prowess and the graveyard, but I really liked your reports in the Constructed thread about your kamigawa-based brew.

Would you ever consider trying to build a Splice-friendly environment? It seems like there's a lot of play to splice, despite the lack of playables - when it's time to Flame Slash, you just Flame Slash. But when you're holding Glacial Ray, you might be tempted to save it for later and try to live the dream of stapling Desperate Ritual+Ray on to all the random Kodama's Poop cards that you drafted?

The more popular cards are popular for a reason and just work better more often and are less likely to feel bad but, part of the pitch I used to get people to try cubing with me was: "Are you bored of Lightning Bolt? Have you ever wished that the big 3 color morph cards in Khans were actually castable?"
What I'm trying to say is people come to cube in part for a change of pace, a little variety, and Splice, if it can be made to work, is certainly that.
Click to expand...

I don't think you can reliably make Splice into arcane relevant for cube. It is just waaaaayy too parasitic. Also, most of the arcane cards are pretty low powered. If you look at the original modern masters, they put in nearly every playable arcane spell in that format and it still was pretty terrible. There are only two real cards that are worth it:

Glacial Ray is great as being able to staple a shock to any random spell for two mana is awesome. It is pretty much the whole reason for any arcane deck to exist ever.
Dampen Thought on the other hand can help win the game fairly quickly. 2 Dampen Thoughts alone can mill 12 cards without any other help. Add any other random arcane spell and that is another possible 8 cards you can mill. All you need is ~8 Dampen Thoughts to win the game, which while similar to Glacial Ray isn't wanted by everyone else. This is the problem with Dampen Thought in cube. For it to work you need more than 1, only one person will ever want Dampen Thought, the person going all in on that plan. It doesn't give any support to any other archetype, and will only ever fit in one deck. Could be a try with squadroning, but I wouldn't be trying any splice action in cube any time soon... Unless you eratta every Instant and Sorcery you have to arcane :p
 
Chriskool

Chriskool

Kirblinx said:
If you look at the original modern masters, they put in nearly every playable arcane spell in that format and it still was pretty terrible. There are only two real cards that are worth it:
Glacial RayDampen Thought
[...]Could be a try with squadroning, but I wouldn't be trying any splice action in cube any time soon... [...]
Click to expand...

Lashknife Barrier brings me back to IBC when casting Gerrard's Verdicts, Phyrexian Ragers and Necravolvers could get the job done.


A cube really needs to be set up for the arcane spells to be relevant. Personally, that meant a decent amount of artifact and enchantment creatures to make arti/chant destruction work as removal as well as a slower format with pre-NWO power levels. I've had success with the following (in multiples) as support spells:



I think that this brings up an interesting topic: which came first, the threat or the removal?
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Even if you run all of those cards together, I'm not sure you would get enough density. There is maybe enough there to support a U/B deck, where the interaction comes up occasionally.

Horobi's whisper and rend flesh can be real cards, even if they lean slightly towards conditonality rather than efficiency. Hideous laughter is actually rather interesting, as its an instant, and can be better than consume the meek. Death Denied is a great card, though probably slots in better as a B/G card where you have ample recursion targets.

The problem is the other colors. Blue is maybe justifiable, but you really have to be committed to running weaker cantrip effects, even a tier beneath impulse/telling time.

White is the next closest color, with blessed breath and otherworldly journey.

And thats just considering the independent strength of the cards, before even bringing up slice.
 
Chriskool

Chriskool

Grillo_Parlante said:
[...]you really have to be committed to running weaker cantrip effects, even a tier beneath impulse/telling time.
Click to expand...

That's a challenge that I enjoy undertaking! To further this discussion: how does one create a fun, competitive, nuanced Limited environment without using the splashy cards that everyone associates with cubing? Specifically, for our tangent, is there a reward for working toward arcane synergies versus just casting spells? I think that the non-blue (non-raw-card-draw) strategies are more incidental, but with proper support (Mystical Teachings, transmute, etc.) and/or proper payoff (Oyobi, Tallowisp, Bounteous Kirin) arcane can reward drafters that make picks with it in mind and fit into normal decks as well.

Though, in general, I am a bad judge of how the average player approaches playing. It excites me to discover that I have to play conservatively with my Horobi's Whisper or Glacial Ray (almost as much as the thought of Dutiful Return being the key) to win a matchup. I also like repeatedly using a Blessed Breath to poke through with one creature. It's often lost on inexperienced players that playing a suboptimal card in a vacuum is what a deck needs to succeed (like a pump spell in some green FateKhansKhans drafts) when a perfectly serviceable creature #19 is available. I fear that the true potential of niche spells like most of the arcane are regulated to last picks and sideboards as a force of habit.
 
RavebornMuse

RavebornMuse

I know this might sound ridiculous but,
is Lashknife Barrier actually too strong for the formats that might want it?

I mean, in formats dominated by things like 2/1s and 2/2s, I'd think that there might be a real risk of it simply wrecking combat math in the caster's favour at all times, nevermind the huge power it would have over red sections like my own, where a lot of the burn comes in at 2 or less. Thoughts? Experiences? I'm considering running it in my next update, but it seems like it might just be too rude. (Currently leaning strongly towards trying Pariah instead, which will likely be my pick regardless, but, I think it's a matter worth a bit of consideration).
 
Ferritovore

Ferritovore

I'm not a big fan of damage reduction on more than one creature, like Grillo said it can turn every combat into a "tank session", 20 minute games turning into 40 minute games
 
GiftsForgiven

GiftsForgiven

Just waiting for Cubetutor to update for Oath so I can show you guys the cube I've been working on! :D

In the meantime, what do we think of this card?

Image.ashx


I'm a pretty big fan of the 'symmetrical effect' cycle that they did for the most recent commander set. They require work to be good, but they give a pretty crazy advantage if you put the effort in. ( It helps that it's a serviceable body on top of it's ability.)
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

Whelk is also going in my next update. It was already borderline playable, and so just a slight drop in power and speed and that becomes very strong. I still want a 0/0 version that has Evoke for 1UU.
 
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