General Making Blue Do Things

Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Furthering this discussion, I've gone and looked at all the blue 2 drops (looking for new ones), and even all the blue 3 drops (looking for ones which would be fine if they cost 2)

I've come up a little dry, but I'd like some input, maybe I'm just being too dismissive of a few cards.

Here's what I'm running for 2 drops:

Coralhelm Commander
Looter il-Kor
Looter Il-Kor
Frostburn Weird
Ludvik's Test Subject
Phantasmal Image

Technicalities:
Snapcaster mage really cost 3, unless you're flashing back gitaxian probe
Faerie Concalve similarly costs 3 (U1 for activation, then tap the land)
Phantasmal Image and Sakashima's Student are fine 2 drops, but they rarely get played on turn 2.
Ludvik's Test Subject: Also a great 2 drop, doesn't do much attacking :p
So that leaves me with 3 creatures for the blue attacking deck. THREE! And looter il-kor isn't even that great without equipment!
I want about 12-14 2 drop creatures for an attacking color (540 cube, that's what white/red/black have) a reasonable ammount of which should be attacking dudes.
Cubetutor is down right now, but what else are you guys running? Blue is super choked at 3 and 4. I think we've come to the conclusion that there's maybe 2 1 drops worth using (Cloudfin Raptor and Delver of Secrets, themselves both involved in different kinds of decks)
Where are the 2s?
Also: The first person who says "Just hold up mana leak" gets a shiv in the gut. That is not a plan. That is definitely not an aggro plan.
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
October 2011? Please. I'd been running Phantasmal Bear in my cube for four months by that point.

Ain't no one got the drop on no two power one drops more than this cat right here.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Does the blue thing have to be attacking?

I think Phantasmal Bear is perfectly serviceable. Are there even many non-lethal cube things that target a 2/2? Aside from equipping a sword, as I errantly discovered during my last cube draft.
 
Dom Harvey

Dom Harvey

Contributor
Phantasmal Bear was probably the worst card in the MODO Cube for a good while, though Grim Backwoods gave it a run for its money. It's better when the Cube designer actually gives a fuck, though.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Voidmage Prodigy: Yeah, he was horrible here as well. YMMV, and I assume he's fine with devotion, but He was worse goblin piker for us every time
Ninja of the Deep Hours: Here's where we differ Eric :p Ninja has hit players unaided about 5 total times in my drafts, and the tempo loss is too great most of the time. :(

Phantasmal Bear: I run a bunch of equipment and pump spells :( Also, the blue deck is looking like it really will want at least runechanter's pike (if not more), and that just seems like a recipe for disaster. I'm currently trying quad cloudfin raptor, and it looks promising.

Welkin Tern: Not blocking is a huge downside here :( See: Nobody plays Vampire Interloper. Blue might be a bit better at blocking, but not better enough.
Carnivorous Death-Parrot: I play with Noobs, and he ALWAYS dies :p Yeah we're bad. I might just erratta him to be flying bear.

Mindshrieker: Too much mana too little power if you don't sink in too much mana :( I've found from my experimentation before that you need as few 1 power creatures as possible (Triple Looter Il-kor, Double Spellstutter Sprite, Waterfront Bouncer, etc) since blue very rarely has the good creatures.

Artisan of Forms: I like the idea, but heroic isn't a blue thing, and most of the sweetness about clones is copying ETB effects, which this does not :(

Latch Seeker: I assume your UU Unblockable Can't Block is a 2/1, yes? A 3/1 would be a bit insane. (Also, consider just adding Inkfathom Infiltrator, bonus for black yo)
Again, as with welkin tern I don't like creatures that can't block due to all the combat going on in my cube. It really lowers the decision density :(

Seacoast Drake: I'm almost on-board, but I think he needs a little something. I'm thinking maybe the watercourser ability?

Non-Attacking Looters: I'm lukewarm. I definitely prefer looter il-kor to merfolk looter any day of the week, and I've actually slimmed down from the 3 I had before to 2 now.


Jason: Blue doesn't have to be doing the attacking thing. I'm trying this because at the moment, it only does the control thing (and kinda the pod thing, but it's a really controlling pod anyways) and I don't want reanimator, storm or tinker (Sorry I just don't really like artifacts :p) to be archetypes. I'm kinda at a loss for what else to do :p
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
White/Blue Heroic/Auras has came together in 3 out of the last 4 drafts I have run with records of 2-1. 2-1 and 3-0, so i disagree with your sentiments on the decktype. That said, Artisan of Forms was a critical card in none of those decks.

My Latch Seeker is 3/1. 2 evasive power (even if its the best evasive ability) is a grid filler. 3 evasive power actually gets people to care. Costing UU and not blocking keeps it reasonable. Compare with True Name Nemesis: for one less colorless mana it loses the ability to block and immunity to 90% of the cube. Its been fair, but balls out aggressive in a color that has a hard time being balls out aggressive.

If you want to push Seacoast Drake, you could give it the watercourser ability or even the lesser +1/-2 for U to let it do a little damage.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
FlowerSunRain said:
White/Blue Heroic/Auras has came together in 3 out of the last 4 drafts I have run with records of 2-1. 2-1 and 3-0, so i disagree with your sentiments on the decktype. That said, Artisan of Forms was a critical card in none of those decks.

My Latch Seeker is 3/1. 2 evasive power (even if its the best evasive ability) is a grid filler. 3 evasive power actually gets people to care. Costing UU and not blocking keeps it reasonable. Compare with True Name Nemesis: for one less colorless mana it loses the ability to block and immunity to 90% of the cube. Its been fair, but balls out aggressive in a color that has a hard time being balls out aggressive.

If you want to push Seacoast Drake, you could give it the watercourser ability or even the lesser +1/-2 for U to let it do a little damage.
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The phrase "Compare to true name nemesis" makes me throw up in my mouth a little :p
a 3/1 will deffinitly make people care, but do people cry foul? It seems ridiculous on the surface. I'll give it a shot, but I'm afraid man :p

I was thinking {1}: +1/-1. You aren't choked on blue mana, but it can swing for 3 if you wanna throw mana at it like you're at a strip club.

OCPunisher said:
I fail to see how Welkin Tern not blocking is bad but other guys are fine.
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Jungle Lion is bad because it it's surroundings, the ShadowGuys have been sliding out of my cube for a long time now (IIRC I'm down to just soltari trooper), and Rakdos Cackler can actually block if you really want him to :p
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
Chris Taylor said:
The phrase "Compare to true name nemesis" makes me throw up in my mouth a little :p
a 3/1 will deffinitly make people care, but do people cry foul? It seems ridiculous on the surface. I'll give it a shot, but I'm afraid man :p
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No one has complained. Actually, no one even made a memorable comment on it. UU for a dude that can only attack and dies to everything isn't anything to really care about. People have had a much stronger reaction to the 1B Echo Bloodhunter Bat.

I was thinking {1}: +1/-1. You aren't choked on blue mana, but it can swing for 3 if you wanna throw mana at it like you're at a strip club.
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You could, but I wouldn't. Seascoast Drake as printed has made plenty of final 40s, if I wanted to push it {1} : +1/-2 is as far as I'd go.
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
I have run every card you are asking about at some point.

Withdraw was run as a Grid Filler for me (I wanted to run a card from every set and you know Prophecy sucks). Its very good if you want to bounce your own creature. Undo is more reliable, but being an instant and costing less puts it over. Withdraw's strength relies heavily on the speed of your cube: the faster the better. Undo is never really optimal in any environment: sometimes its great, but its very variable. I don't recommend it. Silent Departure is a decent compromise between the two, but not exciting in the least. I run it, but I could see it leaving. The flashback works well with looting, which is the reason I'm using it currently.

Repeal is still good. I run it and I don't run into the roil. Nuking tokens for U comes up all the time and is pretty useful. I also run repulse, which may seem weak, but 3 is a lot less then 4. It compares decently to recoil, but you usually never want to recoil your own card! Recoiling an opponents land, though, can be pretty powerful and it can deal with hard to kill cards temporarily. Maybe I should readd it? Psychatog has been undrafted a lot (even though he's still pretty good in the right deck).

Crystal Shard is on the brink, but its useful for green/blue mana denial which sometimes does work, so its in for now. Using it as "blink support" is completely overrated. Using it in combination with Mana Vortex, Paralax Wave, Mana Breach and Opposition is where its at.

I love Man-o-war, Venser, Cryptic Command and Cyclonic Rift. I think Far //Away is solid, but exchangeable. I recently slotted Tradewind Rider back in for capsize, which everyone always hated (but is stupidly powerful in anything but a top speed cube), so we'll see how he is this time around. I don't like cloudskate as he always seems to be one turn too slow in mana or suspend.
 
CML

CML

Contributor
FlowerSunRain said:
I have run every card you are asking about at some point.

Withdraw was run as a Grid Filler for me (I wanted to run a card from every set and you know Prophecy sucks). Its very good if you want to bounce your own creature. Undo is more reliable, but being an instant and costing less puts it over. Withdraw's strength relies heavily on the speed of your cube: the faster the better. Undo is never really optimal in any environment: sometimes its great, but its very variable. I don't recommend it. Silent Departure is a decent compromise between the two, but not exciting in the least. I run it, but I could see it leaving. The flashback works well with looting, which is the reason I'm using it currently.

Repeal is still good. I run it and I don't run into the roil. Nuking tokens for U comes up all the time and is pretty useful. I also run repulse, which may seem weak, but 3 is a lot less then 4. It compares decently to recoil, but you usually never want to recoil your own card! Recoiling an opponents land, though, can be pretty powerful and it can deal with hard to kill cards temporarily. Maybe I should readd it? Psychatog has been undrafted a lot (even though he's still pretty good in the right deck).

Crystal Shard is on the brink, but its useful for green/blue mana denial which sometimes does work, so its in for now. Using it as "blink support" is completely overrated. Using it in combination with Mana Vortex, Paralax Wave, Mana Breach and Opposition is where its at.

I love Man-o-war, Venser, Cryptic Command and Cyclonic Rift. I think Far //Away is solid, but exchangeable. I recently slotted Tradewind Rider back in for capsize, which everyone always hated (but is stupidly powerful in anything but a top speed cube), so we'll see how he is this time around. I don't like cloudskate as he always seems to be one turn too slow in mana or suspend.
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