Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Oh yeah, I would love it, but they're not truly useful for Modern
General Modern Horizons
- Thread starter Peter LaCara
- Start date
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Oh yeah, I would love it, but they're not truly useful for Modern
Yes, but people might think they'd be useful for modern.
The odds of 100% of these cards impacting the format even a tiny bit are minuscule. That leaves them room to print cool stuff people have been asking for for other reasons (You did mention Oubliette. 3 mana interaction in modern
)
1. I am filled with emotional anguish that the fetchlands don't etb untapped and fetch a tapped typed land, cause then you wouldn't get double dinged for grabbing tapped typed land.
2 I don't play modern, but I was under the impression that it was a robust format with fair selection of tier 1 decks, a broad selection of Tier 2 decks, and a great selection of plausible Tier 3 decks for the local FNM, at a variety of price points. Aside from the glaring failure of WOTC to keep Mana bases affordable, I was under the impression Modern was the best eternal format we've ever had. This is wrong?
2 I don't play modern, but I was under the impression that it was a robust format with fair selection of tier 1 decks, a broad selection of Tier 2 decks, and a great selection of plausible Tier 3 decks for the local FNM, at a variety of price points. Aside from the glaring failure of WOTC to keep Mana bases affordable, I was under the impression Modern was the best eternal format we've ever had. This is wrong?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I don't ever play modern, but the folks here who do seem to like it plenty.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
It's a niche kind of magic. If your deck doesn't kill people on turn 3 or stop your opponent playing any kind of magic in a brutally unfair way, it's kinda shit. Modern doesn't have room for weird aggro decks, they're going to get amulet titan'd before they attack twice. The "control" decks play 10-12 copies of thoughtseize and hope their opponent mulliganing to 2 is enough time for bloodbraid elf to win the game. Sideboard cards ruin entire decks, making postboard games "did I draw it?", coming down to 1-2 relevant cards.
Piloting these decks is fun, even if a lot of the time you're just goldfishing across from somebody. But in the end, every time someone suggests a cool deck idea in standard, I go "Maybe. Let's give it a shot". But if they suggest a modern idea? Why would you fuckin bother.
Maybe legacy is different. And I sure as hell don't know how it'd be fixed. Maybe it's just a natural part of an eternal format. But it's really not for me.
(This is all without even mentioning that scalding tarn is 100$+, and given that this set contains no reprints, it will only make modern MORE expensive)
I think modern has the potential to be the best eternal format, in my opinion it was until around 2016-ish. However, Modern took a real beating ever during the Eldrazi Winter and it hasn't really been the same since. It used to have a fair bit of interaction, now adays most decks just feel like they're gold fishing/drag racing. I think in the current day Legacy offers more interesting (albeit slightly less diverse) metagame, at a price that isn't super unreasonable compared to certain decks in modern. Like, a playset of Underground Sea is going to cost you almost as much as an entire modern deck, but you can also play Death and Taxes which costs hundreds of dollars less than a number of Fetch-Shock modern decks.
Point being: Modern is great when it's great, but right now legacy is better while having a similar barrier to entry.
This is actually part of the reason why I'm so excited for Modern Horizons. This set will allow WOTC to hopefully print some new interactive cards into modern which can damage the viability of some of the Turn-3 aggro decks without actually killing them, while still keeping the format different from Legacy. There's a lot of ways WOTC could do this, although I'm not quite sure how (Containment Priest reprint, maybe?).
Although I don't want modern to become "Legacy Without The Reserved List," some of the things that allow legacy to be such a healthy format (from a metagame perspective, of course, it's awful on the card availability front although not too much worse than modern) would benefit modern greatly. We don't need Force of Will, but we might need a slightly more powerful Foil.
When they say..
“Modern Horizons contains 249 new-to-Modern cards (254 total), with a mix of reprints not yet legal in Modern, and new cards.”
..does that include Basic lands?
Quoting myself here.
Wizards have now confirmed that Basic lands will be an exception to this rule in Modern Horizons.
I was almost starting to look forward to what novelty shenanigans they were going to pull with a draftable set with no Basic lands
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I'm guessing that's what they meant with the "(254 total)", i.e. the five basic lands are the only cards in the set that are not new to modern.Quoting myself here.
Wizards have now confirmed that Basic lands will be an exception to this rule in Modern Horizons.
I was almost starting to look forward to what novelty shenanigans they were going to pull with a draftable set with no Basic lands
Quoting myself here.
Wizards have now confirmed that Basic lands will be an exception to this rule in Modern Horizons.
I was almost starting to look forward to what novelty shenanigans they were going to pull with a draftable set with no Basic lands
I believe that they said there would be basic lands in the set on stream. Yet another reason I think this will be a 4-Dollar pack set like Battlebond instead of a "premium" set like the masters sets.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Yeah yeah I know and I knew that there would be Basic lands in the set, guys
Wotc overdosing on innovation
Desert cube with modern shakeup cards!Wotc overdosing on innovation
Bring iiiiiiiiit Wizards!
I think the testing team have probably done a solid job making sure they don't break Modern, or at least if they do break it to have broken it in a limited and interesting way. As a Legacy specialist, though, I think I am quietly worried and also excited about Modern Horizons' impact on Legacy.
The good:
-reprints of older cards is good and they might pick some of these based on what sees (fringe?) play in Legacy. this is good for card availability, price, and maybe it's good for getting people on the edge to finally buy into the format
-this seems cool and I like that they've integrated the new eternal cards product with the reprint product. that's smart
-new cards shiny pretty new card smell
-maybe some dope-ass art
the bad:
-I don't think they playtested Legacy very much, if at all(?) and it's possible that adding a new card to Modern will create some kind of critical mass in Legacy (not sure what would do this but maybe a new Force-lite free counter that goes in combo decks)
-most Legacy players (incl. me) seem to prefer it when Wizards takes a hands-off approach to Legacy. Sure, the Omnitell meta lasted maybe a little longer than it could've, but in general Legacy has the tools to (eventually) shift and adapt to any meta. This is great, but if we get another Leovold or something it'll be a real bummer. I'm not too worried about this but it would be disastrous for a while and Legacy is in a pretty good place again
my blue sky dream:
they reprint the OG duals, MaRo lights the original Reserved List on fire during the announcement, and more people start playing Legacy, the best and most thrilling format in Magic.
The good:
-reprints of older cards is good and they might pick some of these based on what sees (fringe?) play in Legacy. this is good for card availability, price, and maybe it's good for getting people on the edge to finally buy into the format
-this seems cool and I like that they've integrated the new eternal cards product with the reprint product. that's smart
-new cards shiny pretty new card smell
-maybe some dope-ass art
the bad:
-I don't think they playtested Legacy very much, if at all(?) and it's possible that adding a new card to Modern will create some kind of critical mass in Legacy (not sure what would do this but maybe a new Force-lite free counter that goes in combo decks)
-most Legacy players (incl. me) seem to prefer it when Wizards takes a hands-off approach to Legacy. Sure, the Omnitell meta lasted maybe a little longer than it could've, but in general Legacy has the tools to (eventually) shift and adapt to any meta. This is great, but if we get another Leovold or something it'll be a real bummer. I'm not too worried about this but it would be disastrous for a while and Legacy is in a pretty good place again
my blue sky dream:
they reprint the OG duals, MaRo lights the original Reserved List on fire during the announcement, and more people start playing Legacy, the best and most thrilling format in Magic.
MaRo has been clear that he would blow up the reserve list tomorrow if Legal would let him. Violating the reserve list opens up WotC to way too much liability. I think WotC would need to sell the rights to Magic to someone else for that to ever happen.
Abandon ship!
You still have the chance now. What we know for 100 % certainty: The gap between Modern and Legacy will shrink with the first version of Modern Horizons.
Honestly, I don't think WOTC would purposefully print anything new at the legacy power level in this set. Maybe some of the cards will be playable there, but I don't think we'll see mini Force of Will as much as we will see mega Foil.
Would you really want to put Cabal Therapist in your nic-fit deck when you could just play actual Cabal Therapy?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Can I do a Yawgmoth planeswalker prediction based off of Serra?
+ ability: Culling the Weak/Phyrexian Tower effect
- ability: Corrupt
ultimate: (permanent?) Yagmoth's Will
+ ability: Culling the Weak/Phyrexian Tower effect
- ability: Corrupt
ultimate: (permanent?) Yagmoth's Will
Yawgmoth was explicitly not a planeswalker, wasn't he? Like, that was always the Phyrexians' biggest weakness, that they couldn't walk the planes?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Good catch. That makes my design pretty clueless, doesn't it? :') Oh well, TDIL.
Yawgmoth was a creature. But he did have a plane portal to invade other planes. See No Mercy for example:
Click here for the correct picture I wanted to show you:
https://scryfall.com/card/ulg/56/no-mercy
Click here for the correct flavor text I wanted to show you:
https://scryfall.com/card/inv/308/planar-portal
Does anyone know how to upload to correct ci-versions of cards instead of the newest version?
Click here for the correct picture I wanted to show you:
https://scryfall.com/card/ulg/56/no-mercy
Click here for the correct flavor text I wanted to show you:
https://scryfall.com/card/inv/308/planar-portal
Does anyone know how to upload to correct ci-versions of cards instead of the newest version?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, Yawgmoth is actually depicted on...
And no, sadly I don't know how to [ ci ] the correct version. You can do specific versions with the [ c ] tag though! E.g. Planar Portal|IN vs Planar Portal|8ED. That trick sadly doesn't work with the [ ci ] tag
Edit: I added this information to the How to: Card Tooltips, Card Images, and Decklists thread, as it's probably not widely known
And no, sadly I don't know how to [ ci ] the correct version. You can do specific versions with the [ c ] tag though! E.g. Planar Portal|IN vs Planar Portal|8ED. That trick sadly doesn't work with the [ ci ] tag
Edit: I added this information to the How to: Card Tooltips, Card Images, and Decklists thread, as it's probably not widely known
Do we know, if this set will be designed for draft? I mean, I guess so, but do we have any kind of confirmation? Because I'd love to speculate over the color pair archetypes they could aim for with this
I'm hoping for ...
Affinity. I want more artifact payoffs in these colors.
MADNESS. Would make sense if they gonna reprint some classics like Mongrel/Rootwalla/Arrogant Wurm into modern, hopefully with new tools. Please!
Lifegain. Could still use more non-narrow payoffs in both colors.
I would also like some counters/proliferate cards in white and black, but that'd be just a bonus. Just give me some new green madness stuff and I'm a happy man.
I'm hoping for ...
Affinity. I want more artifact payoffs in these colors. MADNESS. Would make sense if they gonna reprint some classics like Mongrel/Rootwalla/Arrogant Wurm into modern, hopefully with new tools. Please! Lifegain. Could still use more non-narrow payoffs in both colors.I would also like some counters/proliferate cards in white and black, but that'd be just a bonus. Just give me some new green madness stuff and I'm a happy man.