Sets [ORI] Magic Origins Spoilers

[Goldenpineapple]

For the lazy:

What is this good at blocking in Modern? The delve creatures are larger, so is Tarmogoyf. I guess it can sometimes block random small things from the Company decks?

Better than pestermite?

Snapcaster Mage, geist of st. traft, young pyro tokens, bob, it punishes Liliana better than the other flash pieces, Huntmaster, eats more than a pendelhaven activation from infect, requires more from boggles, doesn't get killed by kolaghan's command, pyroclasm, volcanic fallout or electrolyze.

I'm not saying it's going to outright replace pestermite, because flying sure is good, just that there IS tangible benefit to playing it instead. Some of it is fringe, sure, but its beef brings some upside to nearly every match. I don't go to large tournaments so my modern meta is very wide and weird- I don't evaluate strictly vs. the top few decks yo.

 

[Turillazzo]

What do we think of Day's Undoing? Can it be sort of a value Windfall?

 

[MCMcEmcee]

Tapping permanents is way stronger than tapping just creatures. Flying is also better than +1 power. It's still playable but I don't think it's great. Not like RUG twin maxes out on combo pieces to begin with :<

 

[Chris Taylor]

If you're on the play and you can get him in just once...

I wanted this anyways, but Distortion strike makes this probably a bit more playable. I'm gonna try it.

For the lazy:

Better than pestermite?

Snapcaster Mage, geist of st. traft, young pyro tokens, bob, it punishes Liliana better than the other flash pieces, Huntmaster, eats more than a pendelhaven activation from infect, requires more from boggles, doesn't get killed by kolaghan's command, pyroclasm, volcanic fallout or electrolyze.

I'm not saying it's going to outright replace pestermite, because flying sure is good, just that there IS tangible benefit to playing it instead. Some of it is fringe, sure, but its beef brings some upside to nearly every match. I don't go to large tournaments so my modern meta is very wide and weird- I don't evaluate strictly vs. the top few decks yo.

Pestermite taps lands when you end step it, which is probably more relevant than the sill boltable toughness and harder mana cost.

Maybe this is a pipe dream, but Forshadow Conjuring and Birthing Pod seems super awesome. Dude, pod away the token into more dude, or pod activation, haste on the target? Seems dece.

This is actually kinda interesting. We've been taking our ramp decks in a more creature based direction, but swinging it back could be worth it for Rampant Growth + Draw 2 cards (kinda)
Could be interesting. Basic forest does suck, but I wonder if the payoff could be worth it.

What do we think of Day's Undoing? Can it be sort of a value Windfall?

Well, I never really got the most out of wheel of fortune as the next guy, but apparently the idea was to unload your hand and draw up to 7 while your opponent drew 2 cards instead.
Few problems with that approach:
-It only really works when your opponent isn't really doing anything
-Your opponent gets first use out of most of the cards, since 3 + spell is a hefty cost.

Day's Undoing is mostly the same, except the second point goes from "Most" to "All". I'm still not convinced, since I like to keep the curve of my cube hella low, so the base appeal of the card gets worse and worse.
Also to note: unless you're storming off, blue gets way worse useage out of a draw 7 than anyone else, since symmetrical draw benefits the player with actual card advantage less.

 

[ahadabans]

I'm surprised Wizard's printed something with this much potential degeneracy (talking about Day's Undoing). They must feel confident no one can break it.

I don't want this effect in cube personally, and if I was looking for it I'd run Time Spiral or Memory Jar personally.

But make no mistake, I think this card is super powerful even with the "end your turn" drawback (which I think is less severe than it sounds). If you are running a very fast tempo deck (say with a bunch of card disadvantage bounce), forcing your opponent to discard their hand and draw seven may end up being fairly disruptive to whatever they may have had going on. And you may only have had two cards left, so it will be a draw 5 for 3 while resetting your opponents hand. I could see this being especially nasty with stuff that bounces lands, since there is no guarantee that the next 7 cards they draw will enable them to play anything. boomerang.dec anyone?

 

[kevin]

Isn't "reset their hand" just as fallacious as using mill to "get rid of good cards"? Just as likely to GIVE your opponent a Wrath of God as you are to shuffle it away

 

[Turillazzo]

Mana-Eating Hydra | 2G
Creature - Hydra

Trample
Whenever a player casts a spell, put a +1/+1 counter on ~

1/1



The right intersection between Quirion Dryad and that 0/3 thing? Loving it

 

[ahadabans]

Isn't "reset their hand" just as fallacious as using mill to "get rid of good cards"? Just as likely to GIVE your opponent a Wrath of God as you are to shuffle it away

Yes and no. How often do you mulligan your hand? Because this card essentially resets the game and doesn't give you a mulligan. Now assume you've been bouncing/destroying your opponents lands and you drop this card. Even if your opponent draws 7 cards they are happy with, you are still up 2 lands and you very likely netted CA out of it too. That's WCS. And what if they draw the wrong 7 cards (no lands and just spells or just a bunch of lands)? That could happen to you too but you are in a better position to make lemonade out of it since you are likely ahead on the board and you have a lower curve (so are less draw dependent).

Part of what makes control decks good is card quality. You spend turns crafting your hand with draw. By turn 4, as the control player you most likely have a bunch of juicy stuff sitting in your hand that you spent the last few turns assembling. Having to start over with a new random 7 while refilling your opponents depleted hand is a very strong play against you even if they give you the first crack at the new 7 cards.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Mana-Eating Hydra | 2G
Creature - Hydra

Trample
Whenever a player casts a spell, put a +1/+1 counter on ~

1/1



The right intersection between Quirion Dryad and that 0/3 thing? Loving it

Interesting. I do have an utterly superfulous custom 3 drop at the moment...maybe

 

[ahadabans]

Is the trample really worth the 1/1 base stats over Taurean Mauler though? And is anyone running mauler (whose also a zombie and a human for synergy purposes)?

I'm calling "new shiny syndrome" on that card.

EDIT: I suppose this also adds +1/+1 counters for your spells. I missed that.

 

[yan]

not bad
anafenza level good on curve bad off the top

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Trample is a pretty big deal i.m.o. Its the difference between having a de facto the abyss, and a de facto the abyss thats actively killing you.

Especially since this one also gets buffed by outlast lords.

 

[Eric Chan]

Yeah, this seems pretty pushed - trample is a big game. Not having played when Quirion Dryad was a staple, the easier comparison for the ability is prowess - except the bonus is permanent, and works on all your spells, and works on all your opponent's spells!

There's only so much room in cube for guys that are essentially "just stats" at 3cmc and higher, but I think this guy makes a strong case for being one of them.

 

[ahadabans]

Except that this version of the abyss is just a dork that dies to shock immediately or to any black removal spell at anytime.

Or dies, ironically enough, to the abyss.

I did misjudge it a little since your own spells make it grow. It's probably better than Taurean Mauler, but I don't know how much better. And it's very vulnerable until it gets bigger (which admittedly will not take long).

 

[safra]

Guys, guys, guys

storm

 

[Eric Chan]

Kind of the reverse of this guy?

 

[Aston]

Yes and no. How often do you mulligan your hand? Because this card essentially resets the game and doesn't give you a mulligan. Now assume you've been bouncing/destroying your opponents lands and you drop this card. Even if your opponent draws 7 cards they are happy with, you are still up 2 lands and you very likely netted CA out of it too. That's WCS. And what if they draw the wrong 7 cards (no lands and just spells or just a bunch of lands)? That could happen to you too but you are in a better position to make lemonade out of it since you are likely ahead on the board and you have a lower curve (so are less draw dependent).

That's hardly worst case scenario. Actual worst case scenario is when you draw this when you're both in topdeck mode.

 

[ahadabans]

That's hardly worst case scenario. Actual worst case scenario is when you draw this when you're both in topdeck mode.

How is that a bad scenario though? If all you need is a burn spell, this gets you 7 new cards to find it. The other player then has one turn to kill you.

Would you rather just keep top decking and hope you find the card you need to win? If all they need is one card to kill you, this is a dead draw. Don't cast it. It doesn't force you to give them 7 cards. And if you are in that situation, you can only luck sack the game at that point anyway right? Why should a 3 mana spell you top deck bail you out of a game you are losing?

 

[Lucre]

I like these cards in burn decks.

 

[kevin]

It's certainly a fine refill-your-hand aggro card. But who here is playing actual Timetwister and wants a second, notably worse copy of it?

 

[Jason Waddell]

I don't expect to often see a cube setting where, by the time you are casting your third instant or sorcery, the extra forest is relevant for non-thinning purposes. But spell mastery seems like a great mechanic that cares about deck-building and sequencing, so I guess it's neat that the option is there if it's wanted.

 

[Goldenpineapple]

Irregulars is pretty cool. I'm not sure I've ever played constructed with a tapper that didn't tap itself, but azorius guildmage is pretty house.

Sanctum is cute.

 

[Aston]

How is that a bad scenario though? If all you need is a burn spell, this gets you 7 new cards to find it. The other player then has one turn to kill you.

Would you rather just keep top decking and hope you find the card you need to win? If all they need is one card to kill you, this is a dead draw. Don't cast it. It doesn't force you to give them 7 cards. And if you are in that situation, you can only luck sack the game at that point anyway right? Why should a 3 mana spell you top deck bail you out of a game you are losing?

Sure, if all you need is a burn spell. But in that case, wouldn't you rather that you drew an actual burn spell? And when you need more than just one burn spell, this is again really bad.

I'm not saying that this should bail you out of a losing game, I'm saying that it's actively bad even at parity. When would you ever want to cast it? If you're losing, it probably makes you lose faster; if you're at parity, it allows your opponent to pull ahead; if you're winning, perhaps it contributes to winning faster but in that case there are many spells which would do just as much without being just as likely to get your opponent back in the game.

I think you're being very generous with your "worst case scenarios", as I think the worst case scenario with this card is that you cast it and immediately lose as a result.

 

[GenericZero]

So I wouldn't mind talking a bit more about Flameshadow Conjuring. I'm really split on how I feel about it. On one side, it plays great with a few subthemes(Dash being the biggest stand out here), but on the other hand, it's a four mana spell that doesn't do usually do anything for a full turn. It may never even do anything ever. But it does seem sweet when it does get working. Thoughts?

 

[ahadabans]

I think you're being very generous with your "worst case scenarios", as I think the worst case scenario with this card is that you cast it and immediately lose as a result.

Maybe we are thinking about this card in different decks. To me, this is a card you only play in aggro. So assuming your hand played they way it should have, by turn 5 you should be very close to winning (if you haven't already) and you should be on your last couple cards. Since you are running some flavor of Ux, it is reasonable to assume you made a tempo-ish style deck with bounce. That likely means your opponent has more cards in his hand than you do and maybe even fewer lands if you were running boomerang effects. In that scenario, I would much rather have Day's Undoing as my last card than pretty much anything else (other than armageddon - but only if I have dudes in play that can get past whatever defense you may have). In that case, I net +6 cards and you net +2/3 and I'm ahead on the board and have more life than you. Unless you get a God 7 card draw, I'm winning that game. Without getting a new 7 cards though, I have to hope you don't have answers in your 5 cards and/or I can top deck something that pushes me over the finish line.

This card is admittedly not very good in the aggro mirror. But against any deck slower than you, it probably wins you the game if you are ahead and it greatly increases your odds if you are even on the board but behind with cards in hand (again, very likely in most match-ups).

Fair enough, "true" WCS is you can't cast it (or doing so either will very likely lose the game for you or at a minimum not help you win now). ACS for this card is excellent I feel. BCS is essentially an auto-win.

I could be wrong, but I bet someone breaks this in standard. I'm still very surprised Wizard's printed a 3 mana (essentially) draw 7. Have they still not learned how broken cards like this are? That "end your turn" stipulation is much less severe than people think it is. Imagine turn 5... burn spell your blocker, swing, use my last 3 mana to play Day's Ending. My turn was over anyway since combat is done and I have no mana left. What drawback?