Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Geistflame? Really?
Sets [ORI] Magic Origins Spoilers
- Thread starter anotak
- Start date
I think they're straight wrong about that. It's near the top of the curve in aggro, so you just play it last.
The problem is that's the only time you can really say it has no downside- you can't rampant growth into it safely, or hold up countermagic. It plays too badly in too many archetypes for cube IMO- red already has a bunch of strictly-aggro curve-toppers that you can still bumble your draft and just play as big burn spells in counterburn or something.
It is a bit narrow but I think it's mostly interchangeable with roleplayers such as Hellrider & Hero of Oxid Ridge. I would be happy to have one in almost any aggro deck.
I suppose it's true that something like Hellrider is safer in something like counter-burn, but to be honest that's not an archetype I see very often in my cube.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Also, playable red fourdrops without haste are a blessing!
I used to play Grafted Skullcap in a lot of burn decks. I look forward to playing with this new sweet dragon. It's a lot less narrow than most 4s people cube.
The "This dies to removal" argument is particularly strong here, but I don't think that should stop the likes of eric from being able to work it in, and I'm sure I can figure something out to enable the discard this card offers too.
The "This dies to removal" argument is particularly strong here, but I don't think that should stop the likes of eric from being able to work it in, and I'm sure I can figure something out to enable the discard this card offers too.
He's.... kind of not what I want in a looter. Looters are there for long game inevitability by increasing your card quality over time. If you're in some kind of long attritiony game, where the looting would shine, Jace stops being a looter and changes into, what, a free Snapcaster Mage. That doesn't seem that bad, I guess, but it's the only real mode on him. The +1 isn't going to do anything if you're under any real pressure, and the emblem might as well be flavor text.
They posted Nissa too over on mtgsalvation. She'd be alright if she didn't take 7 goddamn lands to flip. I feel the same way about her as I feel about Chandra and Liliana - I like the design of the walker half, but the whole flipping from a creature rigamarole is too much damn work. I wish they'd just printed the walker half and not forced us to jump through all these hoops.
They posted Nissa too over on mtgsalvation. She'd be alright if she didn't take 7 goddamn lands to flip. I feel the same way about her as I feel about Chandra and Liliana - I like the design of the walker half, but the whole flipping from a creature rigamarole is too much damn work. I wish they'd just printed the walker half and not forced us to jump through all these hoops.
Merfolk looter with "planeswalker upside" and two toughness is cool. His flipped side looks super lousy, though. Unfortunately transforming is not a may.
Nissa's up too!
Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Elf Scout
2/2
When ~ ETBs, tutor a basic forest into your hand.
When a land ETBs, if you control seven or more lands, tranform ~.
Nissa, Sage Animist
+1 Coiling Oracle trigger
-2 Legendary 4/4 Token
-7 Untap six lands, they are 6/6 elementals that are still lands.
3
I think a civic wayfinder that you don't snap chump with and could even bait removal is pretty good! Forcing the basic forest is unfortunate.
Nissa's up too!
Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Elf Scout
2/2
When ~ ETBs, tutor a basic forest into your hand.
When a land ETBs, if you control seven or more lands, tranform ~.
Nissa, Sage Animist
+1 Coiling Oracle trigger
-2 Legendary 4/4 Token
-7 Untap six lands, they are 6/6 elementals that are still lands.
3
I think a civic wayfinder that you don't snap chump with and could even bait removal is pretty good! Forcing the basic forest is unfortunate.
So far, liliana seems like the best of the bunch. These three aren't bad, but they are a bit of letdowns. I mean, I shouldn't complain. They're not really not bad. Borderland Ranger now has some upside. As does Merfolk Looter. Chandra is just kind of...a new take on gelectrode? I guess if your cube is running these types of cards, you can swap them out for "SWEET PLANESWALKERS!!!". But otherwise, I am not really feeling it.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Chandra is a faceburning machine. She's definitely powerful, but not interesting at all. Liliana's definitely the most interesting and seems really good too. Nissa is a funny scute mob/borderland ranger mash up, probably decent. Jace is a weird take on a looter, also pretty decent. I guess it depends what spells you get in your graveyard. He only costs 2 mana here people, that backside is not bad at all!
I have to say I think they're all very good.
Wow jace looks like young anakin -> sith anakin
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Yeah, I like the design too, it shows some moderation rather than "hey lets have a glut of super powered cards that break the fundamental rules of the game all at circa 4cc."
For something that requires you have 7 other cards on the battlefield this PW is really underwhelming.Merfolk looter with "planeswalker upside" and two toughness is cool. His flipped side looks super lousy, though. Unfortunately transforming is not a may.
Nissa's up too!
Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Elf Scout
2/2
When ~ ETBs, tutor a basic forest into your hand.
When a land ETBs, if you control seven or more lands, tranform ~.
Nissa, Sage Animist
+1 Coiling Oracle trigger
-2 Legendary 4/4 Token
-7 Untap six lands, they are 6/6 elementals that are still lands.
3
I think a civic wayfinder that you don't snap chump with and could even bait removal is pretty good! Forcing the basic forest is unfortunate.
I'll probably run them all because they look "fun", but the only one that really impresses me so far is Jace. I love toolbox cards, and Jace fits that bill for me, because he has so many ~fun value modes~ (though that + ability is definitely quirksville). Nissa is just okay due to the steep flip demands, but, she clearly helps out later in the game with her + ability, which I can appreciate. Chandra is the most boring, but, I'll take her for the wacky Gelectrode shenanigans and ability to provide some serious inevitability for a red-based control/burn deck. Liliana seems solid, of course.
I'm just hoping Gideon impresses. I'm excited to see him and I've got my fingers crossed for good art
I'm just hoping Gideon impresses. I'm excited to see him and I've got my fingers crossed for good art
Planeswalkers AND DFC's? These will never see the light of day in my cube.
Just being a spectator here though, I sort of like Nissa. She encourages lands based ramp, something green used to do a lot of but that fell out of favor as creatures got better. Remember when everyone ran both cultivate and kodama's reach? Add in Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, some farseek/nature's lore and getting to 7 lands will take like all of 4 turns. Nissa's Coiling Oracle trigger is very good, since it feeds the ramp plan and provides you more gas. You don't even need to draw her for you to have a viable deck here either. She just plays along with what you already want to do. Seems pretty sweet to me.
Just being a spectator here though, I sort of like Nissa. She encourages lands based ramp, something green used to do a lot of but that fell out of favor as creatures got better. Remember when everyone ran both cultivate and kodama's reach? Add in Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, some farseek/nature's lore and getting to 7 lands will take like all of 4 turns. Nissa's Coiling Oracle trigger is very good, since it feeds the ramp plan and provides you more gas. You don't even need to draw her for you to have a viable deck here either. She just plays along with what you already want to do. Seems pretty sweet to me.
Do you prefer spell-based/land-drop ramp? I actually kept mine to a minimum because I like making ramp a bit more vulnerable to removal stuff and there's not a lot of land destro in my cube.
I like your points babe, you know I love land based ramp and shuffling is a joy, but I have a sorta singular issue.
the main reason I prefer rampant growth to all elves is so you are protected from sweepers, your own or otherwise. Nissa just ain't. I guess it's okay in control shells because it blocks + found you a land early in, but this card is really not impressing lucas. It seems like it requires a lot of optimism.
Of the cards I listed above, I only run acid-moss (though nature's lore/cultivate come in and out of my cube). Most of my ramp is creature based, but I did support the heavy land based version for a long time and it was very good. I also do not run the typical suite of high powered finishers, so getting to 6 mana is not a death sentence to aggressive decks. Another thing to consider with my meta that probably isn't in line with most contemporary lists (even riptide ones).
Borderland Ranger is already a borderline cubeable card - though sort of on the weaker end of things - and while Nissa's front side is worse at fixing, she's very much a live draw in the late game. While I don't think she's going to take home any awards on power level, she does provide versatility at all points during a game, which can be welcome sight for ramp decks where many of the cards are only good early or good late.
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic again, but Jace, Vryn's Prodigy seems unreal good. While it might be a different story in standard, this is a creature that should flip almost every time to planeswalker mode in cube, with our environments' higher velocity of spells and usage of fetchlands. Anyone complaining that he's just a Snapcaster Mage should keep in mind that Jace only costs two mana, and his abilities seem far more relevant than Tibalt's ever did. He even defends himself, between his high starting loyalty and his plus ability, making it more likely that you'll get more than one Snapcaster activation out of him - which, in turn, synergizes with his looting ability. There's a chance that, despite all this, he doesn't pan out for one reason or another, but for the moment I'm all aboard the Jace train.
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic again, but Jace, Vryn's Prodigy seems unreal good. While it might be a different story in standard, this is a creature that should flip almost every time to planeswalker mode in cube, with our environments' higher velocity of spells and usage of fetchlands. Anyone complaining that he's just a Snapcaster Mage should keep in mind that Jace only costs two mana, and his abilities seem far more relevant than Tibalt's ever did. He even defends himself, between his high starting loyalty and his plus ability, making it more likely that you'll get more than one Snapcaster activation out of him - which, in turn, synergizes with his looting ability. There's a chance that, despite all this, he doesn't pan out for one reason or another, but for the moment I'm all aboard the Jace train.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I'll agree with the general consensus that these are a little on the weak side; probably a result of WOTC being unsure about cheap planeswalkers.
I think as long as the unflipped side is reasonable for your environment, than they're fine. If I must run a card like boarderland ranger, I would rather have a sometimes more exciting varient of the card.
But I would predict some number of these being jammed into too high power environments, where they will linger for a month, before finding their way into the trade binder (which is fine, since some of these--like jace-- may play much better than expected). Hopefully, this is just a field test, and we'll get some more refined cards coming out in the next year or so.
I think as long as the unflipped side is reasonable for your environment, than they're fine. If I must run a card like boarderland ranger, I would rather have a sometimes more exciting varient of the card.
But I would predict some number of these being jammed into too high power environments, where they will linger for a month, before finding their way into the trade binder (which is fine, since some of these--like jace-- may play much better than expected). Hopefully, this is just a field test, and we'll get some more refined cards coming out in the next year or so.
Nissa is a split card that gives you a borderline ranger (SEE WHAT I DID THERE) and a sorta shittier sarkhan unbroken on turn like 9+. I gotcha.
Might be fine lol.
Might be fine lol.