If you're going to errata Kathari Screecher to be a 3/2, could you take it one step further and errata the zombie creature type onto some random bodies a carefully selected set of creatures?
Card/Deck Revisiting Zombies
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Yeah, I could. I'm just kind of going by feel at the moment. Creature type errata has been used by Cooperfauss before, I'm sure it would work here too.
In the chat I had the really stupid idea of a Delver that became a Zombie when it flipped. Obviously that's a really stupid idea and I've put no thought into which other creatures would actually be useful as Zombies.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Screecher: I think a 3/2 flier with unearth will see play. It fits right into a ton of blue tempo decks.
Captain: Yeah, it's not getting played outside of those decks. But it's currently the best incentive I have to get the color to play blue so I'm willing to make that concession for now. The key is to probably just errata other cards but I'm not quite there yet. Maybe I should just play Duskmantle Seer as an aggro finisher that likes Brainstorms?
Ruinator: I probably wouldn't even play it in Zombies but I'm testing it anyways. Exiling creatures from the yard is such a huge cost when your deck relies on Gravecrawlers. Love it in pod though. This is one of those cards I expect to cut after a couple drafts, but fuck not testing it right?
Dom Harvey
Contributor
For blue, Clones + undying guys was a neat interaction in Standard (Butcher Ghoul, Geralf's Messenger etc). They also go really well with Blood Artist/Diregraf Captain and stuff like Sedraxis Alchemist/Gray Merchant.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Honestly, I think you can just forgo the skaab ruinator experiment. It is a bad card unless you can get at least six creatures into your yard on a semi-timely basis; and your cube is probably too quick for the card.
Dom's clone suggestion sounds like a fun and creative way to tie U/B together while maintaining a unique sense of blue flavor. It may not be the ultimate answer, but I think it’s the right thought process.
In Innistrad's design notes, Maro describes what he called a "black hole" problem with black, where it could just swallow up thematically entire other colors; and hence why WOTZ created the "mad scientist" skaab zombies for blue, differentiating them from traditional zombies in black. Skaab zombies feed a blue game plan of library manipulation, while black zombies attack. For that reason, I'm not nuts about the errata plan because it feels like blue is sacrificing its color identity to provide for a mere expansion of black identity.
Also, ophiomancer approaches being an anti-aggro silver bullet, which may not be a good thing to have.
Dom's clone suggestion sounds like a fun and creative way to tie U/B together while maintaining a unique sense of blue flavor. It may not be the ultimate answer, but I think it’s the right thought process.
In Innistrad's design notes, Maro describes what he called a "black hole" problem with black, where it could just swallow up thematically entire other colors; and hence why WOTZ created the "mad scientist" skaab zombies for blue, differentiating them from traditional zombies in black. Skaab zombies feed a blue game plan of library manipulation, while black zombies attack. For that reason, I'm not nuts about the errata plan because it feels like blue is sacrificing its color identity to provide for a mere expansion of black identity.
Also, ophiomancer approaches being an anti-aggro silver bullet, which may not be a good thing to have.
I'm actually pretty optimistic about Ophiomancer. My cube could use some additional anti-aggro, and the decks are so removal heavy I think they'll be able to cope. Also the card is pretty nutty in a sacrifice deck. Ping them with Goblin Bombardment on their turn and yours.
I'm not nuts about the errata plan either but I don't have a strong alternative in mind. Do we have less explicit ways to tie the theme to blue?
The problem I have with the clone idea is that I'm not really on the Undying line in black. Butcher Ghoul is way underwhelming, and Messenger is no longer where I want to be with the theme due to being so black heavy and being a 3-drop.
I'm not nuts about the errata plan either but I don't have a strong alternative in mind. Do we have less explicit ways to tie the theme to blue?
The problem I have with the clone idea is that I'm not really on the Undying line in black. Butcher Ghoul is way underwhelming, and Messenger is no longer where I want to be with the theme due to being so black heavy and being a 3-drop.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Disclaimer: not saying any of this should be done, or that it is even reasonable for your cube due to power level--I'm just brainstorming.
I think another approach would be to look at the existing black zombie pool and see what cards are there that naturally benefit from blue effects, and then find if there are any actual blue zombies (multi-colored or blue) that fit in with the plan.
For example, blue clone effects are going to be really good with zombie lords
and also zombies with powerful ETB effects or which care about the number of zombies in play
Or maybe you can run zombies that benefit from or contribute to bounce
Alternately, youcould think of zombies as more of a control or midrange archetype when paired with blue
Or maybe there are blue cards that want to reward you for attacking with small black zombies
I think another approach would be to look at the existing black zombie pool and see what cards are there that naturally benefit from blue effects, and then find if there are any actual blue zombies (multi-colored or blue) that fit in with the plan.
For example, blue clone effects are going to be really good with zombie lords
and also zombies with powerful ETB effects or which care about the number of zombies in play
Or maybe you can run zombies that benefit from or contribute to bounce
Alternately, youcould think of zombies as more of a control or midrange archetype when paired with blue
Or maybe there are blue cards that want to reward you for attacking with small black zombies
Or maybe there are blue cards that want to reward you for attacking with small black zombies
This last idea I think is probably the best direction. Zombies is capable of going wide and fuel for the deck never hurts. It's not really an option for the deck to take a controlling role because the core of the archetype is built around creatures that say "can't block". Opposition is a card that allows you to circumvent this, of course, and is generally a good use of recursive bodies. Play a crawler, tap it, tap your dude, sacrifice it for value, etc.
This is probably not where we want to go but it is interesting.
Don't worry guys I figured it all out:
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I like this idea! I wonder how bident preforms, but I'm really excited about military intellegence
My main problem with military intelligence is that you have to trigger it three times until you really get better value than a Night's Whisper, which was pretty marginal in most of our cubes. It's a fun idea but I don't know if it really comes together. Will have to test.
I agree with that. I wish they had really pushed it and had it cantrip upon entering the battlefield. But maybe that would have made it too good. I don't know.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
It seems like sort of awkward. Best case scenario is probably 1 drop => 2 drop=> MI with a mana open for spell pierce or force spike, but what if they remove or block a dude? Even if they don't, you have to attack twice to create value. Even though curiosity is super risky, its probably the better card because you can usually rely on it to do its thing and it costs you only 1.
CML
Contributor
ruinator: now that's the spirit. i guess it does go in pod, doesn't it!
military intelligence looks pretty bad until you realize the sheer misery of being hit in standard with a bident in play and how completely fucked you are when that happens. i thought about bident in night's whisper terms but i'm pretty sure it's the wrong way of looking at it and also the wrong way of looking at milint. anyway i never got bident to work over here but am trying milint
i dont think the crab is nearly strong enough. maybe as a 2u/4u bestow
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Traditionally, at least over here, when blue and black show up in an aggressive deck, it’s usually because black wants to borrow some of blue's bounce to push some affect through, or because it wants some soft counters. A U/B tempo package to tie together aggresive black zombies might look something like the below, albeit maybe too low power level for your cube:
Cheap bounce and disruption
Cards that want you to attack for value
Evasion
Support
Cheap bounce and disruption
Cards that want you to attack for value
Evasion
Support
Cards that want you to attack for value
Speaking of cards that attack for value:
Siren could be playable if its stats weren't crap and a half
If Lich Lord of Unx were something like a 2/3 or 2/4, I'd play it. I'd play it HARD.