General Riptidelab mostly-custom cube attempt #1

Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
{1}{U}, Panamana, Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays {2}.
Landstorm.


Mechanic:
CARDNAME gets BONUS if you control no untapped lands.

It's kind of a blue combat mechanic that plays with deckbuilding, instants, flash, counterspells, and can be interacted with from your opponent either via spell timing (Doom Blade your guy, do you counter? Cast my spell in first main, do you counter?) or via Twiddle effects.

Fetches / Shocks play great with Dethrone. Maybe the set could have a fantasy-feudal thing going on. White as the ruling party color? Works with lifegain too.
 
GenericZero

GenericZero

I think Study Session is a BIT confusing for players...Do you finish searching your library and THEN use it after the inevitable shuffle that comes with every library searching card, or do you STOP searching for the moment, put your library down, draw and discard accordingly, and then RESUME the search?
 
Lucre

Lucre

Yo, J-Money, that's basically the Prophecy mechanic, along with "Unless an opponent pays {1}".



Yeah I think your version of Study Sesh could work out. I just thought it was flavorful to go for a research / library theme and most research cards involve discarding.
This is one I though up when I was in the subway.

Overdue {1}{U}
Instant
Return target creature or artifact to it's owner's hand.
You may play this spell from your library whenever you search your library, as if it were in your hand.
[This might be a little too rough though, could probably stand to be more expensive or limited in some other way.]

Shunned Sorcerer {1}{B}
Creature - Human Wizard
Intimidate
Contract - {2}{B}{B}, Discard Shunned Sorcerer from your hand: Destroy target non-artifact Creature.
2/1

Overbearing {2} {U}
Instant
Counter target spell with converted mana cost 4 or less.
Affinity for wizards.

Scholarly Pursuits {2}{U}
Instant
Draw two cards then discard a card from your hand.
[Affinity for wizards creates more tension to play the wizards in your hand instead of channeling them]

Fire Trick {R}
Instant
Fire Trick deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
If you control a wizard Fire Trick does 1 damage to target creature or player.
[Maybe a little OP but you get the idea]

Shuffler Regrowth {G}{G}
Sorcery
Return target card in your graveyard to your hand then shuffle a card from your graveyard into your library.
[Could probably use some work]

New Dual Idea
Land
When New Dual Idea enters the battlefield choose white or blue.
{T}: Add one mana of the chosen colour to your mana pool. (I'm sure we can find a way to track this if absolutely necessary, but that clay construct that has 1 of 3 forms doesn't need no help.)

Eerie Belfry
Land
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
Contract - {2}{W}, Discard Eerie Belfry from your hand: Put 2 1/1 white spirit tokens with flying into play.
[There is a lot of tooling we can do with contract lands to give them more tension]

Environmentalist {2}{G}
Creature - Elf Wizard
When Environmentalist enters the battlefield you may return a land card from your graveyard to your hand, if you do put a +1/+1 counter on environmentalist.
2/3
[definitely needs some work]

Sacked Hamlet {1}{R}
Creature - Wall
Defender
When Sacked Hamlet enters the battlefield exile the top card of your library, until the end of turn you may play that card as if it were in your hand.
1/4
[Imagine something like this in other colours with say blue asking your to guess the type and you getting to draw it on a correct guess, green playing a land revealed from top?]

Imagine adding this text to a card you'd already be playing, like a solid creature or a mana rock:
{1}, {T}, Discard a land card from your hand: Draw a card.

Kamigawa moonfolk fit these themes really well, think meloku.
I'm very curious about more top of library manipulation.
One of my favourite mechanics from salvation read "Whenever this card would become revealed from your hand or library you may play it for this cost"
 
Lucre

Lucre

GenericZero said:
I think Study Session is a BIT confusing for players...Do you finish searching your library and THEN use it after the inevitable shuffle that comes with every library searching card, or do you STOP searching for the moment, put your library down, draw and discard accordingly, and then RESUME the search?
Click to expand...

I think that sort of text would be easy to fix if really necessary but it's probably super not necessary. Remember how Frantic Search and Arrogant Wurm work. You resolve your first effect, while frantic search is busy discarding and before the untapping happens you have something to declare in that you intend to cast your dumb wurm with madness, then you wait for the untapping to happen and the full resolution of your search with your wurm still doing something nebulous and then deal with your wurms casting.

Like if needs be we can just add a bit of text about how you can exile this spell and cast it until end of turn or some such shit.
 
anotak

anotak

re: exiling panglacial: abilities can't trigger from hidden zones.

regarding the mechanic itself: I don't like the idea that you can just basically start the game with a bunch of spells in your hand without them being in your hand. Maybe a card or two like this, maybe, but as a whole set mechanic, I really don't like it. The rules confusion added to the weird unmagicness of violating the resource system like that just seems all sorts of wacky. And it doesn't tie to any kind of flavor perspective either. millikin isn't the only card that causes problems and i don't want to just walk on eggshells with our costing just to prevent the kind of super weird situations that are associated with custom cards. it just seems like being weird for the sake of being weird.

re: Lucre card
overdue - see my problems with the panglacial mechanic
shunned sorcerer - why non-artifact? why are we doing contract? i like the mechanic decently but does it fit that much or are you just trying jam your favorite mechanics everywhere? ... that reads kind of bad but i don't know how to phrase it. i don't mean any meanness by it, but i want you to examine that i guess and give some reasons here beyond "hey they're wizards!"
overbearing - i'm not a fan of affinity for creature type here after having played with it in other custom environments, but how about the spire golem ability except maybe for two types of lands or something? or affinity for nonbasics? we gotta be careful here. i like this card but i don't think it fits here
scholarly pursuits - was this supposed to have affinity? otherwise its just a card draw spell thats kind of weak i guess
fire trick - too much tribally, i think we can make it more subtle than this and still be an important element
shuffler regrowth - this is interesting. does it work if it puts the card on bottom?
dualland - no way people forget coldsteel heart all the time
environmentalist - i can like this idea. see harvest wurm
sacked hamlet - i like this a lot
discard a land - this can be ok but it needs to cost a decent bit more, tweaking needed

Jason Waddell said:
Anotak: I do love me some Cascade. Landstorm excites me more at the moment, and they're both competing for the maximal "one free-spell mechanic per set" slot.
Click to expand...
sounds good to me, no cascade then
 
silasw

silasw

Panglacial mechanic is definitely dangerous. It's pretty close to "you can cast this from your sideboard," which I think we can all agree is not a good idea on many cards.
 
GenericZero

GenericZero

My thoughts:

-Overdue:I can dig it.

-Shunned Sorcerer: Change name to "Sketchy Sorcerer" for giggles.

-Overbearing: Converted mana cost 4 or less is a bit much. Also seems a bit poisonous. I get that wizards will be everywhere, but unless I have at least 2 wizards out by turn 3, I have to hold up mana and lose tempo just to MAYBE get to play this thing against something relevant. How often is this better than Unified Will ? It feels like they do very similar jobs...but in a draft I'd rather take the one that counters anything and asks me to meet a less specific requirement.

- Scholarly Pursuits: This is definitely a good example of Affinity done right on a card. I think most affinity cards need to be proactive cards in nature, otherwise they don't seem like they work very well.

-Fire Trick: Possibly make it a Volcanic Hammer with the same 1 damage upside? As a fan of red, I don't care what people say, Volcanic Hammer is just a little bit TOO terrible for my tastes...and as a result, I don't run it. But if it was given a SLIGHT edge, I'd be much more comfortable with it. You could even just make this a bad shock that becomes Chain Lightning. Making it a normal shock with that much upside for having a wizard in play seems a bit too good, though.

-Shuffler Regrowth: I like it, doesn't seem like it needs much work. It should possibly exile itself, though.

-New Dual Idea: Choose whether or not it comes into play with a counter on it. A counter themed around "the wizards have tamed and warped this land". Depending on whether or not it has a counter on it will determine if it is tapping for one color or another. You could even go a bit deeper with it if you want to make the counters matter. Having ways to add or remove them might become poisonous, though.

-Eerie Belfry: Make it tap for a white. On a side note, I love the contract mechanic but we MIGHT want to consider having a few ways to answer it(IE: Stifle effects of sorts?)

-Environmentalist: Too much reward just for returning a land to your hand. Possibly make it a 1/3 that either returns a land to your hand OR gets a +1/+1 counter. It'd have to be reflavored but I think it'd work better as a card. If it is going to stay a 2/3, make it cost 1GG

-Sacked Hamlet: Like MaRo, the "wall" creature type comes off as wrong unless there is some way to sell it as a living wall with the name and art. The ability seems okay, but why a wall cycle? Why not a wizard cycle or a relevant creature type with defender cycle? I won't go into the designs for each color card in the cycle, but this needs more thought.

IN SUMMARY: I know there is a wizards theme across all colors you're working on, but it feels like you're trying too hard to make it reliably be a 5 color deck for drafters. Not only could this lead to fights over wizards that'll end up making decks worse and the draft less fun, but if there ever isn't a fight, someone gets a ridiculous 5 color 3-0 deck. A 5 color deck should be made possible, but not something too likely. I like the land cycling idea stapled to certain creatures IF it is utilized right. Maybe staple it to the defender cycle you suggested and make it a sorcery speed ability? Then you have to choose between looting or blocking, which seems like a good skill tester. I didn't see any library searching effects here, so I'm wondering how this panglacial thing will work out. If you go with tutors, your looting and draw spells just seem a bit worse cuz "why dig when I can just take this card that will fetch it for me?" The tutor route isn't impossible, though. Just need to be careful with the power of your tutors. Maybe make the player have to meet requirements or spend a lot of resources? Normally, players would say "fuck that business" because it is too much of a tempo loss, but with the panglacial mechanic you could balance out the tempo loss. Avoid mana ramp spells for panglacial cuz it seems kind of lazy and dumb. Those are my thoughts on it for now. I'm gonna go make a sandwich for my lunch.
 
Lucre

Lucre

1) Panglacial Mechanics
Yeah I would assume this would be something like a 5 card cycle. It's a special rare opportunity that would have it's impact felt in standard way too much to be saturated.
Anotak, I think we can both think of easy ways to get around these silly little issues, the wurm proves it's possible. Arrogant + Frantic shows how the steps would work. You have to resolve the first thing before the other thing can start it's business. You can't play the spell mid shuffle, you more or less say it's gonna be played and finish your shuffle cycle with the card beside your deck right? That's always the way we played it and I took one of those decks to a PTQ and no one gave me guff. But I'm sure if you wanted to you could make suggestions if that explanation isn't working for you for some odd reason.

Like being able to exile this card while you're searching your library could easily be a static ability on the card like panglacials is. I think you are also being a little too rigorous here, as what we are talking about is a self contained organism, milikin is not something we need to worry about broham, we won't be upsetting any judge circles if we let a card be played the way it feels like it ought to, it's not hard to figure out.

Cards:
Overdue {1}{U}
Instant
Return target creature or artifact to it's owner's hand
Bookmark - {2}{U} (You may reveal and play a card for it's bookmark cost from your library whenever you search your library.)

Study Session {1} {U}
Instant
Draw two cards then discard a card from your hand.
Bookmark - {3}{U}, Discard a card from your hand (You may reveal and play a card for it's
bookmark cost from your library whenever you search your library)

Empowering Passage {G}
Instant
Target creature gets +2/+2 and trample until end of turn.
Bookmark - {2}{G} (You may reveal and play a card for it's bookmark cost from your library whenever you search your library)

Warning to Trespassers {R}
Instant
Warning to Trespassers deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
Bookmark - {R}, Discard a land card from your hand. (You may reveal and play a card for it's bookmark cost from your library whenever you search your library)

Tome Haunt {1}{W}
Creature - Spirit
Flying, lifelink, vigilance
Bookmark - {2}{W} (You may reveal and play a card for it's bookmark cost from your library whenever you search your library)

Like there's a lot of room here to figure things out if you wana. We could consider putting a "you may play only one spell for it's bookmark cost per turn" kinda clause in there too if we were getting too antsy. It really only takes a little thinking to be able to find workarounds and ways to try to balance this stuff, and wouldn't necessarily involve a lot of text. If needs be we could just make all these things into creatures and give them all etb abilities. Before you rag on me for some dumb wording error I've made (I know I make them) please think about the spirit of what I'm trying to achieve and think about how you might correct the problem.

2a) Contracts
I dunno bro, I just heard wizard tribal and my mind went to one of the mechanics I was most happy with that was often on wizards. Wizards always felt flat and shallow to me as dumb idiots that did one thing when they were in play or had some ability when they entered the battlefield and thats it. Someone said they liked it so I posted more. Also didn't someone mention that they wanted wizards to have more diversity in their effects? Was that in the chat? I also think Channel (or contract) is a great way to cram in more wizards into your set because you get to have staple spells that happen to have a creature type and body if you like.

It also touches on the theme we have already discussed of cardtypes being more interesting in different zones. These creatures are suddenly doing something besides coming into play, and turning sideways, similar to what we were looking for in lands. Also enables channeled lands, which I think is a really sweet idea for making lands feel like nice draws.

2b) Why Not Artifact
It's always been my impression that life/death magic is genericly less effective on things that are not traditionally living. I doubt I could kill Data (TNG) with my wizard's necrosis or heartstopping spell.

3) Overt Wizard Reference Cards
Yeah my tribal designs tend to be kinda overt, but at least they are kinda creative and would play in thematic ways right? I admit to loving cost reducer mechanics, I don't think it's necessarily such a horrible thing when in a closed environment like this, but if subtly is your thing maybe wizard tribal isn't for you.

4) New Duals
Anotak, you gotta use your imagination. There's all sorts of ways to demonstrate the swap. Like as our generic friend said, you could choose to put a counter on it or not and if it has the counter it makes blue if it doesn't it makes white. It could even be some funky flip card lol.
Sweet Card:
Steppe Well
Land
When Steppe well enters the battlefield you may put a mining counter on it.
{T}: Add {W} to your mana pool. If Steppe Well had a mining counter on it, instead add {U}.

5) Library Regrowth
You guys have a lot of sweet ideas here. I love the idea of it bringing back your Bookmarked spell or resetting your top of the library guy to become a 2 for 1. Might be a little too strong eh?

6) Generic's Shuffling Worries
I'm still trying to figure that bit out I know fetchlands will be a part of this set so I'm not too worried. I am getting there though. Has everyone thought about transmute? I like the idea of more things that shuffle things back into your library or into opponents libraries (like green removal or oblation). Permanents that stick around and then give you chances to shuffle sound pretty sweet but maybe too strong. I'd like it if the shuffling wasn't all for {0}, I find the idea of having to hedge your bets after playing a 2cc shuffler with your future sight effect out really compelling.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Mindthrust Mage {2}{B}
Creature - Human Wizard
Whenever an opponent shuffles his or her library, put a +1/+1 counter on Mindthrust Mage and that player loses 1 life.
1/3

If we're shuffling all the time anyway.

I also think you should just call contract channel, the mechanic already exists, and wizards "channeling" their lifeforce to fuel their biggest spell seems like a good fit thematically!

The new dual doesn't do it for me, real duals tap for two colors of mana! They also don't play nice with fetches. Why not add the fastlands text to the original duals?

Alpine Meadow
Land - Mountain Plains
({T}: Add {R} or {W} to your mana pool.)
Alpine Meadows enters the battlefield tapped, unless you control 2 or fewer other lands.
 
Laz

Laz

Developer
Lucre said:
6) Generic's Shuffling Worries
I'm still trying to figure that bit out I know fetchlands will be a part of this set so I'm not too worried. I am getting there though. Has everyone thought about transmute? I like the idea of more things that shuffle things back into your library or into opponents libraries (like green removal or oblation). Permanents that stick around and then give you chances to shuffle sound pretty sweet but maybe too strong. I'd like it if the shuffling wasn't all for {0}, I find the idea of having to hedge your bets after playing a 2cc shuffler with your future sight effect out really compelling.
Click to expand...



This card exists...


I would love to see it be awesome.
 
GenericZero

GenericZero

Jason Waddell said:
I mean, people are in the habbit of rearranging their mana and clumping it up and all sorts of things, and the dice on top of it just become an annoyance.
Click to expand...


Pretty sure those people can go enjoy the back end of the baloth. It isn't that big a deal and if they want, they can just write down that there is a counter on it and cross it out if the counter is removed.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
GenericZero said:
Pretty sure those people can go enjoy the back end of the baloth. It isn't that big a deal and if they want, they can just write down that there is a counter on it and cross it out if the counter is removed.
Click to expand...

Still though, most people are going to denote this with a dice/glass bead. If this is the primary fixing cycle, imagine a 3 color deck having 3-4 of these shuffled in with 2 other lands.

You can't really put vivid lands in piles unless they're at the top. And when you have more than a few lands in play, a mandated minimum number of piles is annoying
 
GenericZero

GenericZero

Chris Taylor said:
Still though, most people are going to denote this with a dice/glass bead. If this is the primary fixing cycle, imagine a 3 color deck having 3-4 of these shuffled in with 2 other lands.

You can't really put vivid lands in piles unless they're at the top. And when you have more than a few lands in play, a mandated minimum number of piles is annoying
Click to expand...


Honestly if the only problem with the land is that a couple players might have to be a tiny bit out of their comfort zone with how they set up or tap their lands, I really don't see an issue. This seems less like a design issue and more like a comfort problem. It's ultimately a tabletop game, and compared with others it doesn't take too much maintenance to play it comfortably. Sacrificing one small luxury for the sake of better design seems fine. Get over it.
 
anotak

anotak

let's weigh the pros and cons of the panglacial mechanic

pros
1) searching matters??
2) it's never really been done before i guess???
3) no idea
cons
1) generally confusing
2) confusing/bad rules issues with library order (milikin / chromatic star)
3) confusing/bad rules issues if you try to pay with non-mana abilities (deathrite shaman)
4) repetitive gamestates
5) having to play around cards that aren't in a player's hand doesn't seem like the best gameplay
6) it is always correct to run the card if it is on color despite the offchance that you might draw it because it turns all the fetchlands in your deck into a free cantrip potentially
7) it violates magic's resource system. there are reasons to do this, but they should be good reasons
8) it is weird for the sake of being weird.
9) it is some real Custom Card Stuff, the type of stuff that people think of when they think of custom card forums on other sites.
10) what does this even do in the context of the set, is searching matters what we want?

4, 8, and 9 are probably the biggest issues here by far
 
anotak

anotak

flavor idea: a bunch of people from other planes exploring a new plane

would explain stuff like courser of kruphix while at the same time explaining landstorm and top of the library etc

idk where life payment comes from... i guess angry locals or something
 
anotak

anotak

what if we had 4 x 11 type packs to limit exposure to too many new cards at the same time (leaves you with 44 to make a deck with instead of 45)
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
That could work. I've also played with the idea of a initial set with follow up expansions, to keep the card pool small to start.
 
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