Ehh. She's... I dunno, man. She just kinda sits there and racks up value. It's kinda boring, honestly. Thinking of cutting her from my cube because of it.
Card/Deck Single Card Spotlight
- Thread starter Dom Harvey
- Start date
Ehh. She's... I dunno, man. She just kinda sits there and racks up value. It's kinda boring, honestly. Thinking of cutting her from my cube because of it.
Yeah, I'm leaning in that direction myself. What are some good UB cards to replace it with?
I dunno, it depends. If you reliably trade with your opponent two times by turn five then yeah this is probably really good.
There was also a draft where LSV played two and it was shit. It was never a mainboardable card for me in EMA draft, it's a sweet sideboard card in super grindy matches but that's about it. Aside from that, there are way too many situations where this just ends up stranded in your hand.
I think 5-mana for Sorcery speed card draw is a tough ask in most cubes.
So, it's instant and can return two creatures and draw a card (- 1 life), but also sometimes plague wind their board. Obviously way better, power-level wise.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
It's a shame that basically all raise dead effects are usually costed worse than equivilent draw spells AND are typically worse (Can't cast em early, don't play well in multiples, does nothing when you're winning bar evoke creatures, etc)
Eg:
vs
vs (And we know how generous this is, compare it to even ponder and start laughing)
vs
Eg:
vs vs (And we know how generous this is, compare it to even ponder and start laughing) vs 
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
On the flip side, you know what you are going to get, and you're always "drawing" gas.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I did say typically
I wonder how much a blue sorcery that said "Draw 3 nonland cards" (Wording a la abundance) would cost.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Oh. That is a thing that exsists! So I guess black does get the short end of the stick eh?
I remember Tidings vs. Fathom Trawl being a minor debate when they were both legal in the same Standard format. I think most people ended up opting for Tidings, cause decks that want a five-mana draw spell can often use the extra lands. The bigger question is whether your deck has the time and the space to be super-durdling.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
You know, I had a green cantrip in my cube a while back that was choose one: Draw a land or draw a nonland, and I might not have given it enough credit.
Still wordy AF though
Still wordy AF though
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
The reason you run raise dead effects in a deck is to overwhelm a control deck's removal, not as an actual draw spell. They are extremely potent in that role, though higher power formats probably generally want actual animate dead effects just to keep pace. Or maybe something like that phyrexian enchantment everyone likes (maybe oversold cemetery?) where the initial mana investment is negligible and it sits around gaining value.
Besides the creature ETB effects and sit around enchantments, the best of the bunch are:
Death denied and reaping the graves are pure counter-removal, capable of acting like a giant draw X in the late game to undue multiple turns of board control. Grim harvest can act like an entire engine in its own right in a control deck. Its best paired with powerful etb creatures that can send themselves to the yard, like mulldrifter or shriekmaw.
Besides the creature ETB effects and sit around enchantments, the best of the bunch are:
Death denied and reaping the graves are pure counter-removal, capable of acting like a giant draw X in the late game to undue multiple turns of board control. Grim harvest can act like an entire engine in its own right in a control deck. Its best paired with powerful etb creatures that can send themselves to the yard, like mulldrifter or shriekmaw.
Grim Harvest I found to be really awkward. Holding up 2B is a very large ask, and "recover" is worded such that if you don't pay it you lose the card. So effectively that's 3BB to get a raise dead effect and then an over costed raise dead back in your hand. If I may, let me introduce you to a much better version of that card. 
IMO, the best spell based raise dead effect is Kolaghan's Command.
IMO, the best spell based raise dead effect is Kolaghan's Command.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Grim Harvest I found to be really awkward. Holding up 2B is a very large ask, and "recover" is worded such that if you don't pay it you lose the card. So effectively that's 3BB to get a raise dead effect and then an over costed raise dead back in your hand. If I may, let me introduce you to a much better version of that card.
IMO, the best spell based raise dead effect is Kolaghan's Command.
oh yeah my favorite raise dead spell, control deck blightning
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Harvest is a pure control card that you use in the lategame with a built up mana base, whose floor is raise dead. As long as you have decks that can play toward both that ceiling, and that floor is reasonable, its a good card.
I left k command and genesis out because they are different cards. K command isn't a pure raise dead effect, and genesis is more like a static enchantment like oversold cemetary. I'm more interested in where cards like urborg uprising have a role, the answer of which is not in many places.
I left k command and genesis out because they are different cards. K command isn't a pure raise dead effect, and genesis is more like a static enchantment like oversold cemetary. I'm more interested in where cards like urborg uprising have a role, the answer of which is not in many places.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Grim Harvest I found to be really awkward. Holding up 2B is a very large ask, and "recover" is worded such that if you don't pay it you lose the card. So effectively that's 3BB to get a raise dead effect and then an over costed raise dead back in your hand. If I may, let me introduce you to a much better version of that card.
IMO, the best spell based raise dead effect is Kolaghan's Command.
Grim Harvest actually single-handedly wins some matchups in Peasant on the back of a single copy in mono black control. Grillo is right on the money. Of course that deck also abuses Cabal Coffers, so mana isn't a problem, it's much worse in cube I suppose.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Its pretty good with bouncelands, making it easy for control to gain mana superiority. I think its main issue is that it hits a power ceiling pretty quickly, but than so do all of these raise dead cards.
I'm thinking of putting Tezzeret AOB back in. I'm kinda waiting on Kaladesh to really fill out the artifact theme in my cube.
No need to wait! It's already easy to flesh out a fun artifact theme. What sort of effects are you looking for?
The issue is that at the current moment, my cube is a bit on the strong side (think Legacy cube). In the current build, I have Daretti/Welder as a theme.