Card/Deck Tezzeret (either one) and making them work in cube
- Thread starter Ryan
- Start date
I've had some limited success with these guys. Most of the time, Tezzeret the Seeker is in an artifact based ramp deck that also plays stuff like Upheaval or Wildfire. So you need a critical mass of mana acceleration to make it good. Personally, I don't play signets or moxes, so I've been trying to add other mana acceleration to make this strategy good. I feel like I've gotten it to a place where it's kind of a fringe strategy, but it can come together sometimes.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas just requires a critical mass of artifacts, so he fits into the same ramp type deck or more of regular control shell.
With both Tezzerets, I like having some extra artifact removal stuff like Engineered Explosives and Ratchet Bomb.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas just requires a critical mass of artifacts, so he fits into the same ramp type deck or more of regular control shell.
With both Tezzerets, I like having some extra artifact removal stuff like Engineered Explosives and Ratchet Bomb.
I used to run this guy with pretty minimal support (some mana rocks, no signets, artifact lands in the utility land draft) and he was very powerful when opened in Pack 1. UB Tezzeret 3 - 0'd at least one draft. It's a powerful four-drop and I don't think you need to warp your environment much to make it happen.
I run Agent and my players enjoy him. Unfortunately my players reject the utility land draft and I can't bring myself to add artifact lands to the actual list.
As far as mana rocks go, I tried to use as many not-rock mana or fixing-related artifacts as I could, and it's going well. I also pushed some creatures and utility stuff so I have almost as many artifacts (and colorless spells) as a mono color.
As far as mana rocks go, I tried to use as many not-rock mana or fixing-related artifacts as I could, and it's going well. I also pushed some creatures and utility stuff so I have almost as many artifacts (and colorless spells) as a mono color.
I have a 450, unpowered, singleton cube that hews pretty close to the internet consensus lists.
I run these mana rocks:
Chrome Mox
Mox Diamond
Mana Vault
Grim Monolith
Mindstone
Coalition Relic
Chromatic Lantern
Everflowing Chalice
Important other artifacts:
Engineered Explosives
Ratchet Bomb
Wurmcoil Engine
Batterskull
Tanglewire
Winter Orb
Memory Jar
Important support cards:
Academy Ruins
Thirst for Knowledge
Wildfire
Upheaval
Other tutors and control cards are good too, and the Masticores can be ok. I am looking to add Coldsteel Heart I think too.
I run these mana rocks:
Chrome Mox
Mox Diamond
Mana Vault
Grim Monolith
Mindstone
Coalition Relic
Chromatic Lantern
Everflowing Chalice
Important other artifacts:
Engineered Explosives
Ratchet Bomb
Wurmcoil Engine
Batterskull
Tanglewire
Winter Orb
Memory Jar
Important support cards:
Academy Ruins
Thirst for Knowledge
Wildfire
Upheaval
Other tutors and control cards are good too, and the Masticores can be ok. I am looking to add Coldsteel Heart I think too.
I already have a como cube
. My list is floating around somewhere in these threads. Given that I do already have that I was looking for ways to make either one of them work without the traditonal pile of mana rocks and still have them be a rewarding experience. I'm still okay with things like Sphere of the Suns, Mind Stone, Prismatic Lens,Mox Diamond, and Chrome Mox but I think avoiding the really broken ones like Grim Monolith and Mana Vault is probably for the best.Basically toolbox cards like Pithing Needle, Engineered Explosives, and Relic of Progenitus are the sort of thing that I'm looking at. Ways to make your Tezzeret into a super powerful swiss army knife that let you include cards that are normally relegated to your sideboard in your main deck as well as being a win condition.I think having artifact lands in the utility draft is definitely a huge boost to the card. What other reasonable artifact spells/creatures can be included that can also fit into other themes? I definitely like Solemn Simulacrum,Precursor Golem, and Mimic Vat since they can all fit in a Birthing Pod deck or a sacrifice style deck.
Precursor Golem! That's some Pod tech!
I'm all about Pod tech. It's pretty much the only deck that I've truly enjoyed since Seismic Swans
I though Grim Monolith and Mana Vault would be too broken, but they haven't been too bad. They work in ramp decks, and sometimes control decks, but the one-shot nature of them limits them.
The utility stuff is good, but it needs to be playable outside of Tezzeret. I'm not a fan of "sideboard only" cards in general. Pithing Needle is good though.
I also think the resource denial cards - Tanglewire and Winter Orb - are really powerful. Most competitive constructed Tezzeret decks incorporate some prison/lockdown/mana denial strategy, and these have a natural synergy with TtS's untap effect.
The utility stuff is good, but it needs to be playable outside of Tezzeret. I'm not a fan of "sideboard only" cards in general. Pithing Needle is good though.
I also think the resource denial cards - Tanglewire and Winter Orb - are really powerful. Most competitive constructed Tezzeret decks incorporate some prison/lockdown/mana denial strategy, and these have a natural synergy with TtS's untap effect.
I like Tangle Wire quite a bit. Not so much of a fan of Winter Orb. I like for everybody to actually get to play magic and that card leads to that not happening quite a bit. I'm also not a fan of sideboard cards like Red Elemental Blast,Flashfreeze, etc. etc. but cards that have a wider range like Pithing Needle and Relic of Progenitus I don't mind including because every deck can play them and they aren't quite as narrow. Needle is well Needle and has been doing what it does very well ever since it's been printed and Relic worst case scenario just replaces itself with another card best case scenario shuts down cards like Crucible of Worlds,Life from the Loam,Tarmogoyf,Deathrite Shaman, etc. etc.
I like Winter Orb. It's generally best in aggro decks, and I tend to try to help those out the most. It helps W and B aggro decks seal the game, kind of like Armageddon.
I think the best case for Relic isn't that good. Crucible is only powerful with Strip Mine, Loam is pretty weak even in BCS, Goyf and Deathrite are also kind of weak. Relic is good in constructed, where decks can optimize stuff like Goyf, but in cube, it's just not that powerful of a hoser. Even without any specific hosers, graveyard strategies aren't very powerful; they need a lot of specific pieces to come together...kind of the "shoot the moon" deck.
I think the best case for Relic isn't that good. Crucible is only powerful with Strip Mine, Loam is pretty weak even in BCS, Goyf and Deathrite are also kind of weak. Relic is good in constructed, where decks can optimize stuff like Goyf, but in cube, it's just not that powerful of a hoser. Even without any specific hosers, graveyard strategies aren't very powerful; they need a lot of specific pieces to come together...kind of the "shoot the moon" deck.
I understand Winter Orb is generally at its best in aggro decks which does not help the actual Tezzeret strategy haha. I also just don't think it's a fun card at all. You just stop your opponent from playing magic and that's not at all the experience that I like for my drafters to have. Also graveyard strategies can be extremely powerful given that you have the support for it. I always see people say that Crucible of Worlds is only powerful with Strip Mine but that's just not true at all. Recurring fetchlands is card advantage, bringing back manlands repeatedly is a headache for control decks, and being able to go Crucible of Worlds into Armageddon is pretty powerful. Not to mention it helps you break the symmetry on something like Smokestack.
CML
Contributor
Tezz decks in compcon (or convention center magic, of you prefer) are either affinity or that stupid ramp combo deck with jtms in legacy, the prison strategy would work well with him but for some reason they don't go together. .. yet.
I wanna try crucible again, maybe we can keep using this thread to hash out a nice artifact sub theme
I wanna try crucible again, maybe we can keep using this thread to hash out a nice artifact sub theme
I just don't think the prison theme works without the artifact mana unfortunately. I could potentially see a tax style theme working out since Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Lodestone Golem are already fine cards on their own and Smokestack can already go in to a variety of archetypes . I think this is something we might be able to expand on. I'm all for hashing out an artifact sub theme.
Anybody have any thoughts on this gem?
Have tried it, it's worse than crystal ball so often. Players were optimistic at first but after everyone tried it we pretty much agreed that it's abysmal. Two mana activation is clunky, and the only mode you ever really want is ramp.
CML
Contributor
man i love smokestack. there's no effect quite like it and it requires careful drafting, in-game setup, and execution.
druidic satchel is i'm sure the design basis for bow of nylea.
maybe the antiquities cube http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/dav-flamerocks-antiquities-war-cube.243/ will have some good ideas for this thread?
the difficulty with artifacts is finding the ones that fit not in every deck but do fit in some decks, passing a batterskull is pretty feel-bad and picking one is maybe worse. with tezzeret the seeker finding only high-impact bullets, too, i wonder if he can be powerful enough without just locking people out of the game when he resolves.
how's memory jar been for y'all? i think i will try it
druidic satchel is i'm sure the design basis for bow of nylea.
maybe the antiquities cube http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/dav-flamerocks-antiquities-war-cube.243/ will have some good ideas for this thread?
the difficulty with artifacts is finding the ones that fit not in every deck but do fit in some decks, passing a batterskull is pretty feel-bad and picking one is maybe worse. with tezzeret the seeker finding only high-impact bullets, too, i wonder if he can be powerful enough without just locking people out of the game when he resolves.
how's memory jar been for y'all? i think i will try it
Two things, I think WO is good in both aggro and Tezz. Second, I think we have a different understanding of fun. I'm not trying to persuade you because fun is subjective. I just want to offer an alternative viewpoint. I am a big believer in having "villains" in my cube. I don't want too much broken stuff, but having a small amount creates opportunities for good stories. I almost always lose to Jitte, but it was really sweet when I used Opposition and Llanowar Elves to eventually beat it one time. Winter Orb is a perfect mini-game card. It's also a lot more difficult to play than Armageddon, Sulfuric Vortex, or other cards aggro uses to seal the game. From what I've seen, most time WO is cast, neither deck can break the symmetry. It requires timing and set-up to be good. Also, I started playing Magic shortly before Legends, and so WO has a some nostalgia for me.
There's often an undercurrent in these conversations of what is "fun" or "good design" that seem pretty subjective for me. For example, I like Batterskull and want artifacts that are good in everything. I don't mind having some broken cards, like Jitte, Swords, and Tezz locking people out of the game. I think Tezz requires so much to come together for him to be good, that if someone manages to draft the deck, kudos. A Tezz deck has yet to 3-0 any cube draft I've participated in, and I've seen a couple 0-3.
Don't get me wrong I'm perfectly fine with including cards like Batterskull and having villains in the cube. I just dislike cards that stop people from playing magic. Nothing is worse than getting an 8 man together drafting a sweet deck with awesome spells you're excited to play and then just not being able to cast any of them. Also I'm trying to find potential ways to make these cards work without a huge amount of artifact mana which is are the things that make WO really work from the control decks stance. This isn't me saying don't play WO or WO is bad and shouldn't be in your cube. Just trying to figure out a way to make these cards work in a more healthy way