One problem I'm having is that Champion of the Parish and Steppe Lynx really don't have competition with being the best and most fun 1-drop. Same with Carrion Feeder and Delver of Secrets. What do you think of up to 6 copies of each? I'm very wary of losing out on variety because that is the expectation from most people with Cube, and as designers, delivering on expectations is ever important.
General The Cube Contest
- Thread starter Meltyman
- Start date
One problem I'm having is that Champion of the Parish and Steppe Lynx really don't have competition with being the best and most fun 1-drop. Same with Carrion Feeder and Delver of Secrets. What do you think of up to 6 copies of each? I'm very wary of losing out on variety because that is the expectation from most people with Cube, and as designers, delivering on expectations is ever important.
Yeah I see your point. I personally only support humans as white aggro, so I have a few champion of the parish, a couple mardu woe-reaper, and other humans. There's enough selection in human aggressive 1-drops that you can have both variety and consistency this way.
But this is definitely one example of a section where I've cut down variety: 1-drops. I run multiple Stromkirk Noble, Experiment One, Bloodsoaked Champion and Rakdos Cackler because these fit my aggro themes and combos. Sure, there's plenty of good 1-drops with different names in all of these colors, but cutting variety here really allowed my weird aggro decks to work.
Note: bloodsoaked champion never did much because the rest of the sacrifice theme was not properly fleshed it. But it could be, and I know the deck can be insane with multiple gravecrawlers.
Kozilek's Predator
Kozilek's Predator
vs
Kozilek's Predator
Eyeless Watcher
Kozilek's Predator
vs
Kozilek's Predator
Eyeless Watcher
That's what I was thinking too, but it reduces the singleton breaking... :|
Who is your god now?
I was originally planning ti advocate breaking it, but now... Just add a ton of scion makers; it'll remind wotc of their transgressions.
Are there other 1-drop humans worth playing? Mother of Runes seems a bit much for my liking, Doomed Traveler may require lower power level, and I don't want a Savannah Lion clone. Woe-Reaper looks alright though, but really, Champion of the Parish is just better all around, graveyard nonsense or lifegain aside. Might throw in one Student of Warfare though, and maybe a Boros Elite? Not very impressed still.
Bloodsoaked Champion works with Xanthrid Necromancer, and that's the only reason I have for picking it over Gravecrawler if you're not adhering to singletone.
Total theorycrafting here: I feel like wizards won't mind some number of 2x cards, especially if they seem important in the strategies you're trying to promote. I do think that going beyond 2x is probably too scary of a concept for them.
I also feel like the winning cube will be some pile of made for edh style cards that loosely uses the same strategies everyone writes down for their first cube (GR reanimator, RW tokens, UW control, GR lands, RU spells, GW enchantments, etc). It'll be splashy like the legendary cube but more functional. And it will feel powerful like the legacy cube, but will be slower and a little more focused on its theme. Wizards will call it innovative and everyone at hiptidelab.com will think its boring.
Chord of Calling?
Really? I'm actually super on the fence here.
I run Gideon's Lawkeeper, Mother of Runes, Soldier of the Pantheon. Maybe there are some better ones now. I see your point. Apart from mother these kinda suck.
I think mixing both is a bad idea, and Spawn are by far the most interesting. Scions I feel you don't get enough to work with, whereas Spawn you can build around them because getting 2-3 from one card is much easier. They work on level 0 as mana accelerants but the challenge of turning them into real creatures is something that (some?) players will enjoy.
540 choose 360... how many spawn cards are needed for them to beviable focus for a deck? I imagine 8-10. So probably want 20ish in a draft to have a chance of it coming together. Then consider scions. Then consider spawn and scion as ramp/tokens only (no type specific synergies). No idea on real answer
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
On a serious note, the threads over at the balduvian trading post about this contest are really really funny. I think Doug is about to have a meltdown.
One guy is planning to flood the system by submitting a (potentially) infinite number of procedurally generated cubes, with a fancy natural language processing engine to write the cube descriptions / ideologies. Others contend that excluding custom cards undermines the whole premise of design.
There's one where you draft the same cube twice, then do a utility function draft containing functions that map from cube x cube --> cube. You play with two decks, and the functions act like conspiracies which you can use to transform a pair of cards into another card in the cube. It's really mad. Another BTP member is trying to use it to prove the Goldbach Conjecture.
With the right initial conditions a procedurally generated Cube could be super interesting. Maybe BTP should look into integrating RoboRosewater to create a large pool of new cards then curate them into a cohesive 360 cube.
Say you ask RoboRosewater to generate, say, 1,000,000 new cards. Then you ask it to map the new cards to an existing Riptide list based on their mana cost, type, etc. Boom. New, "functional" cube each time.
What about starting with a basic 360 peasant list and adding 180 reasonably low powered rares to it?
So take what is cool about peasant and improve upon the weaknesses with rares that aren't good enough for regular rare lists but which truly would shine in a lower powered list.
I'm stuck on the Penny Pincher experiment, but it's where most of the cube community has not really gone. And the gap between rare lists and peasant lists is now absolutely massive. There's just so much unexplored design space there.
Take something like Firemane Angel. This card is just complete garbage in your average rare list. But throw that in peasant? It's first pickable and potentially becomes it's own archetype.
And this keeps us relatively good stuffy where the 540 cube size doesn't hurt us or force us to run 13 brainstorms.
So take what is cool about peasant and improve upon the weaknesses with rares that aren't good enough for regular rare lists but which truly would shine in a lower powered list.
I'm stuck on the Penny Pincher experiment, but it's where most of the cube community has not really gone. And the gap between rare lists and peasant lists is now absolutely massive. There's just so much unexplored design space there.
Take something like Firemane Angel. This card is just complete garbage in your average rare list. But throw that in peasant? It's first pickable and potentially becomes it's own archetype.
And this keeps us relatively good stuffy where the 540 cube size doesn't hurt us or force us to run 13 brainstorms.
For E Domain, breaking singleton seems more elegant than using Scions. In fact, I think it would be best to break singleton a bit more liberally to make it clear that it's a "theme" of the cube. My cube only has a few instances of singleton-breaking, which I'm happy with, but I feel like WotC would think it would appear inelegant to the masses.
Perhaps 10-15 cards that you run 2 copies of, and 5 cards that you run 3 copies of. Something like that. Much easier to maintain other themes at 540 that way, also.
Perhaps 10-15 cards that you run 2 copies of, and 5 cards that you run 3 copies of. Something like that. Much easier to maintain other themes at 540 that way, also.
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/4z73pn/magic_online_announcing_the_you_make_the_cube/
Hah! In your face !
"I didn't see anything about it on the info page, but just to make sure, there is no requirement for submitted cubes to be singleton cubes, correct?"
"Correct! In fact we put two copies of a card in the Legendary Cube ([[Brothers Yamazaki]] to be precise)."
Hah! In your face !
"I didn't see anything about it on the info page, but just to make sure, there is no requirement for submitted cubes to be singleton cubes, correct?"
"Correct! In fact we put two copies of a card in the Legendary Cube ([[Brothers Yamazaki]] to be precise)."
Going to submit either some version of this BW v RUG color imbalanced, dupe and trip heavy, morph headache: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/62443
or
some french vanilla, low-on-card-advantage ode to Shandalar (with 2x Moxen and a hefty amount of ABU-era spells).
Leaning toward the first since I've worked on it a lot already, but I think a well-designed, Mox-wild, non-powered-cube entry would have a good chance at making finalist.
EDIT: I made it this far in my brainstorming:
or
some french vanilla, low-on-card-advantage ode to Shandalar (with 2x Moxen and a hefty amount of ABU-era spells).
Leaning toward the first since I've worked on it a lot already, but I think a well-designed, Mox-wild, non-powered-cube entry would have a good chance at making finalist.
EDIT: I made it this far in my brainstorming:
5 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
1 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Encroaching Wastes
1 Stalking Stones
1 Dread Statuary
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Urza's Factory
1 Phyrexia's Core
5 Evolving Wilds
20 [Scry Lands]
20 [Karoo Lands]
20 [Painlands]
2 Mox Emerald
2 Mox Jet
2 Mox Pearl
2 Mox Ruby
2 Mox Sapphire
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Expedition Map
5 Chromatic Star
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Mind Stone
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Guardian Idol
1 Astral Cornucopia
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Aelopile
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Temporal Aperture
1 Disrupting Scepter
1 Reito Lantern
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Spine of Ish Shah
1 Trading Post
1 Tower of Calamities
1 Tower of Fortunes
1 Phyrexian Dreadnaught
1 Myr Sire
1 Myr Retriever
1 Perilous Myr
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Assembly-Worker
1 Paladium Myr
1 Galvanic Juggernaut
1 Su-Chi
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Mindless Automaton
1 Junktroller
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Enata Golem
1 Razormane Masticore
2 Triskelion
1 Scuttling Doom Engine
1 Pentavus
1 Tolaria West
2 Stifle
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Ghostly Flicker
1 Fabricate
1 Trinket Mage
1 Jace's Ingenuity
1 Concentrate
1 Future Sight
1 Sphinx Ambassador / Windreader Sphinx
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
1 March of the Machines
2 Frantic Search
1 Great Whale
1 Peregrine Drake
1 Pore over the Pages
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Counterspell
1 Negate
1 Miscalculation
1 Cryptic Command
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wall of Roots
1 Overgrown Battlement
1 Nissa's Revelation
1 Nissa's Renewal
1 Channel
1 Regrowth
1 Crop Rotation
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Reap and Sow
1 Exploration
1 Primal Command
1 Nightscape Familiar
1 Read the Bones
1 Bitter Revelation
1 Underworld Connections
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Reiver Demon
1 Barter in Blood
1 Innocent Blood
1 Mogg Raider
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Hoarding Dragon
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Sudden Demise
1 Wall of Omens
1 Sunscape Familiar
2 Hushwing Gryff
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Spirit of the Hearth
1 Angel of the Dire Hour
1 Final Judgment
1 Fated White
1 Rout
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Death Knell
1 Death Grasp
1 Spitemare
1 Aurelia's Fury
1 Illuminating Djinn
1 Blast of Genius
1 Mystic Snake
1 Progenitor Mimic
3 Glimmerpost
1 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Encroaching Wastes
1 Stalking Stones
1 Dread Statuary
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Urza's Factory
1 Phyrexia's Core
5 Evolving Wilds
20 [Scry Lands]
20 [Karoo Lands]
20 [Painlands]
2 Mox Emerald
2 Mox Jet
2 Mox Pearl
2 Mox Ruby
2 Mox Sapphire
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Expedition Map
5 Chromatic Star
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Mind Stone
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Guardian Idol
1 Astral Cornucopia
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Aelopile
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Temporal Aperture
1 Disrupting Scepter
1 Reito Lantern
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Spine of Ish Shah
1 Trading Post
1 Tower of Calamities
1 Tower of Fortunes
1 Phyrexian Dreadnaught
1 Myr Sire
1 Myr Retriever
1 Perilous Myr
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Assembly-Worker
1 Paladium Myr
1 Galvanic Juggernaut
1 Su-Chi
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Mindless Automaton
1 Junktroller
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Enata Golem
1 Razormane Masticore
2 Triskelion
1 Scuttling Doom Engine
1 Pentavus
1 Tolaria West
2 Stifle
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Ghostly Flicker
1 Fabricate
1 Trinket Mage
1 Jace's Ingenuity
1 Concentrate
1 Future Sight
1 Sphinx Ambassador / Windreader Sphinx
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
1 March of the Machines
2 Frantic Search
1 Great Whale
1 Peregrine Drake
1 Pore over the Pages
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Counterspell
1 Negate
1 Miscalculation
1 Cryptic Command
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wall of Roots
1 Overgrown Battlement
1 Nissa's Revelation
1 Nissa's Renewal
1 Channel
1 Regrowth
1 Crop Rotation
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Reap and Sow
1 Exploration
1 Primal Command
1 Nightscape Familiar
1 Read the Bones
1 Bitter Revelation
1 Underworld Connections
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Reiver Demon
1 Barter in Blood
1 Innocent Blood
1 Mogg Raider
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Hoarding Dragon
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Sudden Demise
1 Wall of Omens
1 Sunscape Familiar
2 Hushwing Gryff
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Spirit of the Hearth
1 Angel of the Dire Hour
1 Final Judgment
1 Fated White
1 Rout
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Death Knell
1 Death Grasp
1 Spitemare
1 Aurelia's Fury
1 Illuminating Djinn
1 Blast of Genius
1 Mystic Snake
1 Progenitor Mimic
Within 10 cards of my final submission. Thanks to everyone for your roundabout assistance; lots of lurking feedback has enabled this psychotic endeavor!
I am looking for input on my cube contest submission text (418 words):
The Orzhov Syndicate has sojourned the vast majority of their sprawling city-plane and are exchanging a trove of souls accumulated over aeons to bridge the Blind Eternities. As the Ghost Council’s Final Accounting draws near, depleted coffers are readied for an influx of exotic ethereal wealth beyond all imagined! Will the taxed of the Multiverse and downtrodden of Ravnica succumb to the Guild’s invasive debtors or will the eternal miser’s planar absorption fail to collect?
Presenting… Ecumenopolis Enslaved.
A color-pair-skewed cube constructed to operate similarly to other cubes (shuffle up and deal 15-card packs) with a heavy morph focus. Think Judgment if it had been made part of Ravnica. Okay, maybe think Judgment meets Khans and Onslaught. The cube games should play closer to a traditional limited environment than previous Magic Online cubes (but on the Masters end of the spectrum, with copious build-arounds).
The colors break is as follows:
{B/W} - {W/R/G} - {R /G} - {R/G/U} - {G /U} - {G/U/B}
Lands and multi-colored cards have been selected to reinforce the color-pair-and-triad breakdown. The population of black and white cards roughly equals that of blue, green and red cards to call back the iconic color imbalance of Torment and Judgment.
The general guidelines for the environment are as follows:
> Morph and cycling aim to lower the amount of nongames due to mana flood or drought
> Very low # of 1cmc creatures and spells
> Low-to-moderate # of 2-power, 2cmc creatures
> Low # of red-blue-green 3cmc creatures without morph
> Conditional removal (primarily)
> Adhere to Khans of Tarkir 5-mana-to-unmorph-and-trump-a-2/2-in-combat rule, mostly (except each color has a “fair-ish” card that can unmorph for 4 mana)
> Up to 3 of a single card name, but mostly singleton
Themes were chosen with their primary locations in the color scheme. Each color group has a few competitive directions during the drafting portion, with demand overlap to create tension and varying card evaluations from draft to draft. For many decks, thematic synergies will be present but not represent the whole deck.
Color-Grouping Themes
Orzhov
> life drain synergy (gaining life to spend as a resource & bonuses for life gains)
> enchantments
> restrictive color requirements (to prevent Temur, Simic or Gruul decks splashing white and/or black cards as they please)
> spirit tribal / arcane
> sacrifice
Naya
> +1/+1 counters
> cycling control/combo
Temur
> creature power matters
> morph combo
> dragons tribal (just a sprinkle)
Sultai
> control-style mill (slow but repetitive)
> graveyard matters
I am looking for input on my cube contest submission text (418 words):
The Orzhov Syndicate has sojourned the vast majority of their sprawling city-plane and are exchanging a trove of souls accumulated over aeons to bridge the Blind Eternities. As the Ghost Council’s Final Accounting draws near, depleted coffers are readied for an influx of exotic ethereal wealth beyond all imagined! Will the taxed of the Multiverse and downtrodden of Ravnica succumb to the Guild’s invasive debtors or will the eternal miser’s planar absorption fail to collect?
Presenting… Ecumenopolis Enslaved.
A color-pair-skewed cube constructed to operate similarly to other cubes (shuffle up and deal 15-card packs) with a heavy morph focus. Think Judgment if it had been made part of Ravnica. Okay, maybe think Judgment meets Khans and Onslaught. The cube games should play closer to a traditional limited environment than previous Magic Online cubes (but on the Masters end of the spectrum, with copious build-arounds).
The colors break is as follows:
{B/W} - {W/R/G} - {R /G} - {R/G/U} - {G /U} - {G/U/B}
Lands and multi-colored cards have been selected to reinforce the color-pair-and-triad breakdown. The population of black and white cards roughly equals that of blue, green and red cards to call back the iconic color imbalance of Torment and Judgment.
The general guidelines for the environment are as follows:
> Morph and cycling aim to lower the amount of nongames due to mana flood or drought
> Very low # of 1cmc creatures and spells
> Low-to-moderate # of 2-power, 2cmc creatures
> Low # of red-blue-green 3cmc creatures without morph
> Conditional removal (primarily)
> Adhere to Khans of Tarkir 5-mana-to-unmorph-and-trump-a-2/2-in-combat rule, mostly (except each color has a “fair-ish” card that can unmorph for 4 mana)
> Up to 3 of a single card name, but mostly singleton
Themes were chosen with their primary locations in the color scheme. Each color group has a few competitive directions during the drafting portion, with demand overlap to create tension and varying card evaluations from draft to draft. For many decks, thematic synergies will be present but not represent the whole deck.
Color-Grouping Themes
Orzhov
> life drain synergy (gaining life to spend as a resource & bonuses for life gains)
> enchantments
> restrictive color requirements (to prevent Temur, Simic or Gruul decks splashing white and/or black cards as they please)
> spirit tribal / arcane
> sacrifice
Naya
> +1/+1 counters
> cycling control/combo
Temur
> creature power matters
> morph combo
> dragons tribal (just a sprinkle)
Sultai
> control-style mill (slow but repetitive)
> graveyard matters
