The Penny Pincher Cube (360)

[Grillo_Parlante]

I actually never knew that card existed.

It looks a little awkward to me for the penny cube, just because of the CC to stats. The rest of the cube's infrastructure is high enough power where it can really go about exploiting something like that. It also doesn't really seem like it would struggle to find a home either in a lot of those archetypes, due to the high cost, and narrowness of the trigger. Those actual decks probably want something cheaper and more consistent.

If it were a golem too, it would be much easier for me to justify.

I really need to cut the remaining heroic cards (except for fabled hero), as it is such a miserable mechanic. Honestly though, this card is actually probably better as a heroic piece than the actual heroic cards. If I were to do actual heroic again, these are the types of techy cards I would be on the hunt for, and probably make it more midrangy. Though I think this specific card still has all sorts of problems if you run decent removal/bounce.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Finally, with the new set, have an excuse to nix the worst parts of the much hated heroic mechanic.

Out




In




I just cannot take the trinket text on woe-reaper.

This ups artifact density, smooths out mana requirements on white's curve, supports the G/W counters tribal deck, as well as the bounce-replay decks. Mangara was a bit too good.

Basically just a bunch of printings that the cube wanted.

 

[safra]

Now, I like your changes, but is Woe-Reaper honestly that much of a problem? With zero other Warriors it's one-shot graveyard disruption on a solid body, which makes top-decking it (slightly) less painful. Savannah Lions doesn't do that, and I don't think maybe accidentally signposting Warrior tribal is worth the loss of utility.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Its a really vexing mis-signal for new players to the format. I'm not in love with savannah lions, but its functional here.

A few other cards on my radar:




I don't feel there is enough black artifact density yet to support a grindy B/W artifact deck, but I can dream. Really looking for some decent fabricate there, though I feel that I need to be cautious with fabricate in general, due to board spam.

Metalcraft cards are back on the horizon as well:





Probably way too far off, unless I get reasonable servo token makers in black to power bleak coven. Carapce forger isn't insane, however.

 

[Modin]

Have you considered this guy?


I know that it's not what black is supposed to do, but with all the wellsprings running around it would surely have some potential. It's sending queer signals though so I'd understand if that was the reason you aren''t keen on it.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I like that card, but am hesitant to add heavier artifact interactions to black just yet. They went light handed with fabricate in that color, and I kind of want at least one reasonable army in a can effect to provide disposable sacrifice bodies as well as turn on metalcraft, in order to provide an anchor for those sort of density based strategies.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Looking at an energy patch. Energy cards in general solve the combat buff problem important to the aggressive RG or UG stompy decks that basically want to combo kill you after playing a positional game between your removal and their pump (alla legacy infect or pauper stompy), while strengthening the G/W counter based decks, since a bunch of the energy creatures in green just happen to add permanent +1 +1 counters.

You know its a great set when it gets me to make this many changes to a format at one time, without kicking and screaming.

Out






exarch: like the card, but felt a little redundant, and was often times forced out of pools as an underwhelming curve topper.

coatl: also like it, but its kind of a dumb card. All of its potential synergy was generally overshadowed by being a big dumb boring beater.

brindle boar: not sure about this. boar is supposed to be a late pick for decks that want to stabilize, but its both a boaring card to pick and to play.

Krosan restorer: priced one mana too high for something that is on most players must kill list, and at an awkward spot on the curve. If the energy mana dork dosen't work out, this will go back to voyaging satyr #2

Mina and Denn: 4cc with no ETB is still brutal even here. Reasonable card, but never lived up to the hype.

feral invocation: always felt like an awkward hang around in the creature buff department. At this size cube, I really only need molvervine cloak, elephant guide, and rancor.

rift bolt: burn design sucks in this game, but I opted to cut the most overpriced burn spell (in terms of RL money). I also hate incinerate and volt charge (and brimstone volley...and staggershock /sigh), but we start where we may. Just literal decades of WOTC making functionally identical cards for the obligatory RDW that everyone loathes deep down.

death spark: never could quite get there, even though I love this card. Penny cube too high power.

longshot squad: victim of power creep

troll ascetic: due to the energy revolution, better designed cards can take its place

azorius arrester: ok, not needed.

hunger of the howlpack: last of the truly awful pump spells. Kind of hate sylvan might too, but we aren't at that point yet.

In







Longtusk cub: works in the G/W counters deck, and G/R pump deck. Reasonable card on its own before energy storage comes into play.

bristling hydra: reasonable hexproof. love it. don't tell me the price.

arashing cleric: alfonso correctly noted that defensive white decks would benefit from a stabilizing 2.

blossoming defense: exactly where pump spells want to be, and adds the second vines of vastwood effect the format has wanted for forever.

woodweaver's puzzleknot: artifact, energy, stabilizing lifegain, awesome synergy with fangren maurader.

servant of the conduit: like cub, adds energy to the environment while having a reasonable floor.

harnessed lightning: helps secure as an energy pair while offering a good control spell.

uncaged fury: 3cc and no evasion, going to try this at instant speed.

voltaic brawler: maybe too narrow for other formats, but the body is so reasonable for the cost that effectively any RG deck should be fine with it.

thriving rhino: again, adds energy, reasonable floor.

attune with aether: probably the most questionable include.

empyreal voyager: on strategy with G/U's evasive stompy game, and work with the green energy cards. debating adding glimmer of genius

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Let me rephrase that maybe a little better.

In constructed, or even in cube draft, you can kind of think of a format in terms of matchups, and the way different match ups are paced out: faster aggro matches, grindy midrange, or card advantage focused control. Because card selection allows decks to operate at such varying speeds, game pacing can vary tremendously, even within the confines of an overall "slower" or "faster" format.

In grid draft, it feels like game pacing would overall be more aggregate across decks: e.g. this are no real "aggro" decks for example: so the total card pool would have to take into account that nearly all of the games must develop along a similar pacing and flow.

 

[Modin]

We just had a match with my opponent destroying all my lands with Wall+slime+flicker in game 2 and me reducing his hand size to 0 with galepowder mage + chittering rats in game 3.
Pincer times are good times

 

[Chriskool]

Any advice for building this without the energy subtheme? Does it involve finding green cards that pivot between a stompy-aggro approach and +1/+1 counters? Also, I may relax the budget some...

I suppose I should do some investigation before asking too many Qs

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I enjoyed the energy mechanic, but there really isn't enough density for it at this point.

I updated the list to be without energy, and if you check my sig it is what I am currently recommending.

A couple notes:

1. I believe Niv-mizzet to be too strong for the environment
2. Savra is kind of expensive irl and i.m.o. a bit too narrow.
3. Arbiter is also kind of expensive irl, and while I enjoy the card, its not necessary.

However, I've not found cards I am excited to replace these with.

The rest of it functions congruently, so give it a few test runs before making non-finance oriented changes (and I would prefer to give my opinion on possible replacements first), lest we unbalance the guilds. The gold section however, as always, I encourage experimentation in.

The only Kaladeesh era changes that stuck were turning krosan restorer into voyaging satyr #2, death spark into uncaged fury (still not 100% on this), and hunger of the howlpack for blossoming defense.

cheers

Edit: forgot I cut wonder to try merrow levitator. Wonder was a bit much.

Edit 2: excepting of course the kaledeesh cards with fabricate, which the white section definitely is interested in.

 

[Kirblinx]

Grillo, from my post in the 'Why I'm Going Low Power' thread has pushed me into gear to convert my peasant cube to a penny pincher cube. I had an older version of your list and have made a couple of changes and wanted to get your approval.

Out:




In:



The orzhov swap was just due to card availability. Thought the cards were similar enough that it could just be swapped over.
The Keldon Vandals I removed due to having a keyword with no reminder text. Instead of telling people what echo is, or writing on my card, I decided to just swap it out with a simpler version.
Death Spark reads really weird and isn't that great for the 'newbie-friendly' environment I am bringing it to. I didn't want to do Uncaged Fury, as I feel it may be too strong, so I went with this underrated gem that I had a great time with in EMN draft. I hope it pulls through.

Thanks for any reply. I hope to get a draft in with it at the LGS this weekend, and will tell you what comes out of it in my own thread (if it does come to fruition)!

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

This looks fine. Incidentally I had been eying borrowed hostility, so will be interested in how it performs. It would be nice to have another red buff.

Keldon vandals I find is a better card overall than manic vandal, but that swap is still fine.

 

[Toan]

Death Spark reads really weird and isn't that great for the 'newbie-friendly' environment I am bringing it to. I didn't want to do Uncaged Fury, as I feel it may be too strong, so I went with this underrated gem that I had a great time with in EMN draft. I hope it pulls through.

Would this help at all?



(Double chevron is because that particular file is looking at "patching" or reworking previous designs and giving them an "upgrade")

 

[Onderzeeboot]

1. I believe Niv-mizzet to be too strong for the environment

However, I've not found cards I am excited to replace these with.

looks like a decent replacement for Niv-Mizzet. It burns through your deck like crazy and is a suitable big fat flyer to finish the game with.

 

[GiftsForgiven]

looks like a decent replacement for Niv-Mizzet. It burns through your deck like crazy and is a suitable big fat flyer to finish the game with.

I've tried him out in my cube multiple times, and could only conclude that he's cancerous. Maybe it's just my cube's power level, but ho-lee-shit does he turn even the most innocent of draw-based effects into a serious win condition. And that's on top of a body that's really par, especially for middle power formats.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Yeah, its way over the cube's power threshold.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I've never seen it in action, it looks innocious, but I'll take your word for it!

 

[GiftsForgiven]

I've never seen it in action, it looks innocious, but I'll take your word for it!

I'm trying to find the best way to describe how good this card is... it's tough if you haven't played with it (and this ISN'T EVEN COUNTING CBS COMBOS LIKE sphinx's tutelage).

It makes it impossible to sculpt a perfect hand, but on the flipside is literally endless gas attached to a 5/5 flier. Look at it this way: Are you more likely to have 1 great card and some medium cards in your hand, or a hand that's SO GOOD that you just can't bear the thought of wheeling any of it away? You wind up just casting every best card in your hand, and in U/R (which has a lot of cantrips), you can wheel away bad or medium hands to find the good stuff.

Oh yeah, and it's also a 5/5 flier for 6 on top of that.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Clarification: That was a heartfelt "I'll take your word for it!" I just didn't expect adding a mana, a color, and vulnerability to way more removal would turn a crap rare into a broken bomb! May I represent you my frame of reference...

 

[Chris Taylor]

"Vulnerability" is an interesting way of describing a dragon in this format

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Heres one in defense of the value of small improvements over sweeping changes. I've had the format for a couple years now, and this is the first time I've uncovered this specific issue with a color pair.

W/G/r auras from CubeTutor.com

p1p1 rancor put me into a G/W aura deck, but ugh, will you look at that curve :eek: and if you look in the board sigil of the nayan gods, wingsteed rider, and stormbind that all look like they would

I actually like the deck, but that 3cc slot is so tightly packed with essential cards. I had been wondering why the G/W aura/heroic/self bounce decks seemed to be on something of a down tick, and it makes sense when you look at the aura costing




ugh! Your 3cc slot needs to devote 2-3 slots to auras to be consistent. In addition, the focus on efficient but conditional removal, happens to results in much of the interesting/premium removal pieces being 3cc in GRW




and your best threats are 3cc




And a recent SOI change to up artifact density, compounds problems:




I was thinking the decks might be running into issues with competitiveness, but it looks like the big problem is just that G/W and GW/r is so glutted with essentials for the deck to work on strategy at 3cc, that its probably just pushing drafters onto other strategies without them realizing it.

People still go into drafts with a BREAD mindset, and they won't touch auras until they have everything else done (unless the aura is a bomb, which only rancor really is). 3cc auras are just going to be hard to justify for picks or the final cut of a deck, after a certain point.

Need to turn some of those 3cc auras into 2s.

Already cut battle mastery for gleam of authority. Guide and moldervine cloak are both solid in different archetypes, and will stay. Invocation is more hit or miss, but I like it, even though I know its a lower pick, but I suppose its cutable. One of either sigil or courage need to go, and maybe both.

These aura based decks have just been a real headache to design.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I've liked Bonds of Faith in the two slot. Maybe that's an option for your aura decks? A lot of those targets are humans, and it doubles as removal.

 

[Kirblinx]

I think this is just a side effect of the penny pincher-ness. It seems in this low powered world you want your most impactful cards to be in the CMC 3 slot. This allows for decent interaction between players as they can at least set up a board or find an answer to these cards by then. That being said, having that many of the auras at CMC 3 is a bit daunting.

Checking out the options you have at 2 CMC for GW auras isn't too flash:
Too Strong:

Serviceable:

Maybe (but probably not):


Also, all of your protection spells in white are in the CMC 2 slot. Which you didn't seem to pick up. Sure they aren't auras but they still fit the 'protect the queen strategy', so I am wondering if it might be better to add some spicier aura's in the CMC 4+ slot. There is one card I am really fond of recently, and could be worth it.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I like the idea of faith unbroken quite a bit. Traditionally, white had a clunk issue around the 4cc slot, but maybe with the slightly smoother curve, there is a spot for faith unbroken as a companion aura for faith's fetters. Thanks.

I'm honestly getting kind of tired of prison term. Irrespective of how good the card is or isn't, people tend to forget the triggers, which I'm starting to tire of.

The thing with 3 drops, is that they really prevent you from sequencing out multiple spells until turns 5-6. I'm not really worried about the 1-2cc protection spells, and I would kind of draw an analogy here with the level of excitement I feel when I see 2cc counterspells vs. 3cc counterspells: that extra mana really makes a difference. I should be able to cut at least one of those gold auras (I really need two at the same mana cost?), and one of the green 3s. I feel like the rest of the setup is pretty good.

For some reason armor of thorns never really caught on. It could just be that there is over-saturation of aura effects period in that color, for what decks want, or it could be that the card was just not grokable: there is a lot of text, keywords, and clumsily drafted limitations on it.

I've never liked bonds of faith: I realize its supposed to be a modal card, but I don't think I've ever found it correct to use the buff mode in these sorts of creature-centric formats.