And maybe use the handy dandy card image tags because one of us never really got around to studying the visual spoiler and hasn't played Magic in a long time.
Sets What cards from Theros are you playing?
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Chris Taylor
Contributor
(Kinda)
Is Spear of Helios not a profoundly annoying card?
Chris, how's Omenspeaker been for you? I finally got my shipment of Theros cards, but now that I'm staring at it in hand, I'm not sure I want it in over any of Sea Gate Oracle, Spellskite, or even Frostburn Weird.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Omenspeaker's been fine. 2 drops are all 3 power thesedays, so the 4 toughness ones you gotta worry about, like plumeveil. Spellskite I like, frostburn weird seems horrible since he kinda just attacks/blocks and has horrible mana requirements to do so. Sea gate oracle is fine.
I actually forgot about Ember Swallower, I'll edit that in.
Whip just seems like the kind of card I wouldn't want in my cube. It either works and hoses the fuck out of aggro decks, or is bad (too much mana, not a threat, returning mediocre guys while your opponent goes over the top etc). I don't see much of it having an average case.
How has arbor colossus been? I think I like vorapede better, but either could work.
Jason: Nobody's played spear yet, but it doesn't sound annoying. It is the most answerable card type ever after all, since it's hit by both artifact and enchantment destruction, and costs a million mana to use.
I actually forgot about Ember Swallower, I'll edit that in.
Whip just seems like the kind of card I wouldn't want in my cube. It either works and hoses the fuck out of aggro decks, or is bad (too much mana, not a threat, returning mediocre guys while your opponent goes over the top etc). I don't see much of it having an average case.
How has arbor colossus been? I think I like vorapede better, but either could work.
Jason: Nobody's played spear yet, but it doesn't sound annoying. It is the most answerable card type ever after all, since it's hit by both artifact and enchantment destruction, and costs a million mana to use.
CML
Contributor
wadds: i fucking love spear. playable glorious anthem is totally wonderful and if the threat-light decks can't find an answer to it then it's their own damn fault
anger of the gods
ashen rider
ashiok, nightmare weaver
bident of thassa
boon satyr
chained to the rocks
elspeth, knight-errant
erebos, god of the dead
fanatic of mogis
firedrinker satyr
fleecemane lion
gray merchant of asphodel
hero's downfall
nylea, god of the hunt
polukranos, world eater
purphoros, god of the forge
soldier of the pantheon
spear of heliod
thassa, god of the sea
underworld cerberus
whip of erebos
+ some scrylands in the funsies draft
of these cards, my favorites are ashiok, chained, spear, whip, and, above all, the all-important incidental graveyard hate Underworld Cerberus.
however much of a disaster theros is as a limited format, and however true it is that it's the worst legacy set since homelands, it's been great fun in Cube
edit: fwiw chris i think commune, tymaret, warriors' lesson are just bad cards
anger of the gods
ashen rider
ashiok, nightmare weaver
bident of thassa
boon satyr
chained to the rocks
elspeth, knight-errant
erebos, god of the dead
fanatic of mogis
firedrinker satyr
fleecemane lion
gray merchant of asphodel
hero's downfall
nylea, god of the hunt
polukranos, world eater
purphoros, god of the forge
soldier of the pantheon
spear of heliod
thassa, god of the sea
underworld cerberus
whip of erebos
+ some scrylands in the funsies draft
of these cards, my favorites are ashiok, chained, spear, whip, and, above all, the all-important incidental graveyard hate Underworld Cerberus.
however much of a disaster theros is as a limited format, and however true it is that it's the worst legacy set since homelands, it's been great fun in Cube
edit: fwiw chris i think commune, tymaret, warriors' lesson are just bad cards
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Warrior's lesson has been a half decent cantrip for the now less boardstalled games my cube produces, and the possibility of being thoughtcast is not out of the question. Let alone double strike guys.
Commune is in because I really want Gristly Salvage to be mono green, and I happened to pick up two foils. I've added the second vengevine, but I think more needs to be there before that actually becomes an idea in green.
Tymaret hasn't been drafted yet. The sac deck has been more incedental synergy (threaten + gargadon in monored) than an actual archetype, but I'm kinda okay with that. People seem to think gravecrawler is a really great card, and just branch out into black with their aggro deck for it. I don't know why
It's kinda weird I see the random synergy includes popping up in odd decks, like people taking fencing ace with 0 ways to pump him.
Commune is in because I really want Gristly Salvage to be mono green, and I happened to pick up two foils. I've added the second vengevine, but I think more needs to be there before that actually becomes an idea in green.
Tymaret hasn't been drafted yet. The sac deck has been more incedental synergy (threaten + gargadon in monored) than an actual archetype, but I'm kinda okay with that. People seem to think gravecrawler is a really great card, and just branch out into black with their aggro deck for it. I don't know why
It's kinda weird I see the random synergy includes popping up in odd decks, like people taking fencing ace with 0 ways to pump him.
dissolve, read the bones because i went through the trouble of getting them
and
i opened it in a pack and i didnt want to just get rid of it
and
Chris Taylor
Contributor
dissolve, read the bones because i went through the trouble of getting them
and
i opened it in a pack and i didnt want to just get rid of it
Dangit I keep forgetting cards! Read the bones has been solid, kinda what I always wanted stuff like harmonize to be
How has Ember Swallower been? Is it more interesting than the glut of other 4-drops at your disposal?
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Chris: You really like Gods Willing more then Emerge Unscathed or even Brave the Elements? Is Scry 1 better then I think it is?
Ember Swallower is a very sweet card that I probably won't ever play because it costs 4 mana.
I agree with Chris on Tyrmaret, he just seems awful. I mean, I like the idea of what he's trying to do, he just does it so poorly. Paying 2 mana to kill a dude to get back a bear (that I have to pay to cast again) so that I can pay 2 mana to kill a dude to do 2 damage. . . seems inefficient to say the least.
Warrior's Lesson, though, is my kind of card. 1 mana for a possible divination (or with double strike, possible concentrate?) is pretty awesome. I've chopped the hell out of my low cost instant speed removal, though, so that's a factor.
Commune seems acceptable, its just not in Green's purview in my cube.
I like many of the mentioned cards, most notably Whip of Ereb0s, Bident of Thassa, Boon Satyr, Chained to the Rocks, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Grey Merchant of Asphodel and Hero's Downfall, but I'm playing even more then this.
Some unmentioned cards that I'm playing include:
Please note, though, that I always include a disproportionately large number of cards from the new set because its funsies.
Ember Swallower is a very sweet card that I probably won't ever play because it costs 4 mana.
I agree with Chris on Tyrmaret, he just seems awful. I mean, I like the idea of what he's trying to do, he just does it so poorly. Paying 2 mana to kill a dude to get back a bear (that I have to pay to cast again) so that I can pay 2 mana to kill a dude to do 2 damage. . . seems inefficient to say the least.
Warrior's Lesson, though, is my kind of card. 1 mana for a possible divination (or with double strike, possible concentrate?) is pretty awesome. I've chopped the hell out of my low cost instant speed removal, though, so that's a factor.
Commune seems acceptable, its just not in Green's purview in my cube.
I like many of the mentioned cards, most notably Whip of Ereb0s, Bident of Thassa, Boon Satyr, Chained to the Rocks, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Grey Merchant of Asphodel and Hero's Downfall, but I'm playing even more then this.
Some unmentioned cards that I'm playing include:
Please note, though, that I always include a disproportionately large number of cards from the new set because its funsies.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Honestly my red 4 drop section is 100% creatures anyways, so I might have 6 creatures and koth, but that actually puts it on part with other colors, where there's at least some division between creature and noncreature 4 drops.
Gods Willing I'm including because I have a huge hardon for scry, and because the rebound on emerge unscathed only ever works as a psudo falter, if they're only playing 1 color and if they wanted to block in the first place and etc etc etc. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a foil one now, so I think both are fine
Red actually has the lowest number of 4 drops in my cube of any color, with a mere 7 @540. White/Green has the most at 11, but in green that's entirely the fault of x4 birthing pod, which is kinda 3 sometimes too, so I'm willing to give them the slant.
White I know is a bit heavy on them, but since wraths, proper aggro disruption and all the good walkers cost 4, I can't really change much to alleviate that. Most of white's non-threat non-removal cards kinda suck.
Noboy's actually played tymaret, and I'll admit hes not very time efficient. But damn is he inevitability. He is a consistent source of damage that is very hard to get rid of, and he synergizes with the cards you'd be saccing anyways.
Try warrior's lesson, most people are fine with it just being a cantrip, and the upside is awesome.
Commune might be going soon, but I'd be intersted if it could be a thing. At the moment there's only vengevine, and I'm not sure there's anything that similarly plays well with mulch. I REALLY wish it could get lands.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Warriors' lesson is definitely in my pile right now. I will not, however, be alright with it "just being a cantrip".
White is always my color of lament. I've messed with so many cards and configurations, but the disparity in white is just so bad and the best (non-threat) cards all ultra-efficient removal and 4+ mana equalizers. White needs more cards that play into the protection theme that aren't terrible or gamestoppers. White could really benefit from more "counterspell" cards, like Mana Tithe, but also pseudo counters like Shelter. Unexpectedly Absent really missed the mark for me because it was yet another piece of ultra-efficient removal
White is always my color of lament. I've messed with so many cards and configurations, but the disparity in white is just so bad and the best (non-threat) cards all ultra-efficient removal and 4+ mana equalizers. White needs more cards that play into the protection theme that aren't terrible or gamestoppers. White could really benefit from more "counterspell" cards, like Mana Tithe, but also pseudo counters like Shelter. Unexpectedly Absent really missed the mark for me because it was yet another piece of ultra-efficient removal
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Yeah, white has always been the black sheep of the Cube. There are just no fun themes you can support with any consistency. I tried to write Rethinking White once, but couldn't find anything to say.
CML
Contributor
warriors' lesson is a horrible card, as is gods willing (scry is worth what 1/4 of a card), ditto tymaret.
have you played with commune? you can't take a land, which not only makes the card really weak, it's also a feel-bad experience.
dom: try a Death and Taxes theme, super-fun
FSR: i'm interested in how heroic is fitting in your cube. afaik there is no way to support the theme in a "normal" context, i.e. any draft set other than Theros or Cube with its high dudes and removal tension.
have you played with commune? you can't take a land, which not only makes the card really weak, it's also a feel-bad experience.
dom: try a Death and Taxes theme, super-fun
FSR: i'm interested in how heroic is fitting in your cube. afaik there is no way to support the theme in a "normal" context, i.e. any draft set other than Theros or Cube with its high dudes and removal tension.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
There isn't much in D&T that isn't in my Cube already.
The idea of Replenishing Heliod sounds fun...
The idea of Replenishing Heliod sounds fun...
CML
Contributor
to me the D&T theme is mainly
8.5 tails
suture priest
samurai of the pale curtain
squadron hawk
mother of runes
flickerwisp
mangara
soul warden
mentor of the meek
i find these decks full of underpowered cards that make the opponent helpless to be both amusing and fun, what aren't you enjoying about your W section? (double mom?)
8.5 tails
suture priest
samurai of the pale curtain
squadron hawk
mother of runes
flickerwisp
mangara
soul warden
mentor of the meek
i find these decks full of underpowered cards that make the opponent helpless to be both amusing and fun, what aren't you enjoying about your W section? (double mom?)
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Someday Jason will have a Frank Grimes-esque meltdown at being called 'wadds'
To answer the OP, I'm trying all of these in some capacity:
Soldier of the Pantheon, Spear of Heliod, Thassa, Read the Bones, Ember Swallower, Boon Satyr, Tymaret, Temple of Silence/Mystery, Whip of Erebos, Sylvan Caryatid, Bident of Thassa, Master of Waves, Fanatic of Mogis, Purphoros, Nylea, Hammer of Purphoros, Polukranos, Elspeth, Agent of the Fates, Fabled Hero, Favored Hoplite, Tormented Hero, Akroan Crusader, Nighthowler, Heliod, Erebos, Gray Merchant, Stormbreath Dragon, Labyrinth Champion, Xenagos, Leafcrown Dryad, Nykthos
To answer the OP, I'm trying all of these in some capacity:
Soldier of the Pantheon, Spear of Heliod, Thassa, Read the Bones, Ember Swallower, Boon Satyr, Tymaret, Temple of Silence/Mystery, Whip of Erebos, Sylvan Caryatid, Bident of Thassa, Master of Waves, Fanatic of Mogis, Purphoros, Nylea, Hammer of Purphoros, Polukranos, Elspeth, Agent of the Fates, Fabled Hero, Favored Hoplite, Tormented Hero, Akroan Crusader, Nighthowler, Heliod, Erebos, Gray Merchant, Stormbreath Dragon, Labyrinth Champion, Xenagos, Leafcrown Dryad, Nykthos
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Okay maybe me and you have a disconnect of terminology, but the only things I know about D&T is aether vial (sure) and that one combo with mangara and karakas, which really isn't something I wanna emulate.
The idea of small, underpowered white creatures making the opponent feel helpless might provide some direction, but I'm not really seeing that from this list:
8.5 tails sure, but does soul warden really provide an inevitably feeling?
Thoughts:
8.5 tails: I've had bad times with this guy in the dragon-removal filled cubes of yesteryear, but I'm 99% sure he'd be fine in a world where control magic isn't a bannable card. you might have convinced me.
suture priest: I like the idea of this guy, but it seems like I'll be constantly lamenting the loss of a second power. Is he still agressive enough? If everyone is curving out and there's a bedlam in play he's kinda like a mini grazing gladehart, and that's not exactly rave review...
samurai of the pale curtain: This I can get behind. I sure wish it was W1, and it probably would be by modern standards, but that isn't a write off.
squadron hawk: I've never held good feelings about this card, because as much card advantage as I know it represents, it still makes your deck 19 cards instead of 23, even if you're only drafting 1 card. Is that a problem? Do you need to ever draft another 2 drop? do they preform?
mother of runes: Arguably too poweful, but I see how it contributes to the deck.
flickerwisp: This one I love, epsecially since it's flexible to slide out opposing guys for a turn as a stun type effect, in the absolute worst case.
mangara: He seems solid, though super vunerable. A suspend 1 vindicate is probably playable, even without tricks
soul warden: I imagine this will probably gain you a bunch of life, probably 5+. What are we doing with that?
mentor of the meek: I've never seen him in just a straight creature deck. He seems slow, is that kinda the point? These decks are kinda grindy but with small creatures instead of thragtusk and huntmaster?
How do you feel about Grand Abolisher?
CML
Contributor
Ah, my good man, you misunderstand D&T. In Cube as in Legacy it is a control deck, perfectly happy to putter around while the opponent casts spells that run into a big wall of annoying White people. No need to beat with the Suture Priest! Use that 5 life to chill out some more.
The thing about the Hawks is that they're powerful but they are a draft-around. In a normal deck they are quite bad, in a Fauna Shaman / Survival deck they are fairly wonderful. Of course they do let you draft 3 extra pieces of fixing. I almost cut them due to my dearth of equipment, but they go well with JTMS, Brainstorm, and the new sacrifice theme.
Yeah Mom is the best 1-drop of all time and it's not all that close. Fond childhood memories, though.
The thing about the Hawks is that they're powerful but they are a draft-around. In a normal deck they are quite bad, in a Fauna Shaman / Survival deck they are fairly wonderful. Of course they do let you draft 3 extra pieces of fixing. I almost cut them due to my dearth of equipment, but they go well with JTMS, Brainstorm, and the new sacrifice theme.
Yeah Mom is the best 1-drop of all time and it's not all that close. Fond childhood memories, though.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I too have fond childhood memories of my mom.
Interesting idea, maybe I should cut some of the walls for more time buying creatures that might beatdown. I'm currently running Lone Missionary as a speedbump over something excessive than a second wall of omens, and that seems like a nice swap.
For those wondering more about this whole death and taxes tomfoolery, here's a primer I found with some major interactions and card choices:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=336081
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=306633
Interesting idea, maybe I should cut some of the walls for more time buying creatures that might beatdown. I'm currently running Lone Missionary as a speedbump over something excessive than a second wall of omens, and that seems like a nice swap.
For those wondering more about this whole death and taxes tomfoolery, here's a primer I found with some major interactions and card choices:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=336081
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=306633
I've had worse nicknames in the past. Why do you think I fled the continent?
Uh, I'm sure it's obvious, but the best D&T card in cube is Thalia.
Throwing in my two cents. I'll join the discussion later, gotta head out.