People who've been running delvers, what's the thought on how many to run? I have one right now.
General Decks that have 3-0'd your cube
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
It actually kinda wasn't amazing! Like it was really nice being able to trade up all the time but I felt on the edge of my seat most games and like I couldn't spend all my mana, but couldn't cut down to 16 because of colour requirements. I could have a lot of good trades, I could keep seeing more cards, but most of what I saw was really low impact and if your opponent was allowed to keep up, you had very few reliable ways to win or solidify advantage.
Shit like huntmaster was a serious pain in the ass for me. I'm just glad the deck could also gain life.
You probably know my answer here already - three! I feel like he's not worth building around unless you have a reasonable chance of drawing one in your opener, and with three in the pool, hopefully the U/R Delver player can nab at least two. Not coincidentally, three is also the number of Champions of the Parish and Gravecrawlers that I run; it's pretty crucial to run these out on turn one.
If you're supporting the spells archetype, a second Young Pyro goes a long way, too.
Yeah 2x in small cubes is enough to make an impact and not really put too much of a dent in other archetypes. You don't want to shoe horn people into delver, it doesn't work with everything the way zombies do, but they fit in a lot of places. Don't do this if you are running enchantment themes etc because you want this deck to be able interact with the graveyard strategies and when you are trying to make delver work splitting spells and creatures down the middle, it really sucks when 2-3 of your removal spells aren't instants and sorceries dig?
Delver is also like a suuuuuper blue card so you gotta be careful about how many decks actually want something that cares so much about non creatures.
Delver is also like a suuuuuper blue card so you gotta be careful about how many decks actually want something that cares so much about non creatures.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
It really depends on what kind of decks you want delver to go into: the spectrum of delver aggro-control is pretty broad. Generally, the more aggroish the lists are, the more important an early delver is, while the more controlling the list is, the less essential it is. There is also the question of how narrow of an archtype your delver deck is, and how much space you want to devout to it.
Our delver decks are pretty broad and fit into two different color combinations, so I run 3 of them; though I think the minimum you would want to run would be 2.
Our delver decks are pretty broad and fit into two different color combinations, so I run 3 of them; though I think the minimum you would want to run would be 2.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I would put you in the middle of the road.
You're more of a tempo deck (delver, remand, seeker, riftwing, daze, figure), but with excellent midrange tools to generate card advantage and threat resilency if your tempo plan is disrupted (true-name, lingering souls, jitte). You have the tools to adopt a control role, but you don't look to have the card advantage engines needed to really play a hard control role.
I thought this article was a pretty good explanation of the delver spectrum.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I just run two Cloudfin Raptors as my aggressive blue one-drop of choice. It's been pretty awesome so far!
Laz
Developer
I think that promotes a very different style of aggressive Blue decks than Delver, given that they require completely opposite card types to function, tokens not withstanding.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
You are correct! In my experience Delver tends to be a bit poisonous, since it operates on such a different level from other aggressive creatures. In a way it's a very conflicted card: a "small", aggressive one-drop that doesn't want other aggressive creatures around. Cloudfin Raptor just gets with the program
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Given how Delver has terrorized every Constructed format at some point over the past few years, I'm not eager to support it in Cube. I Cube to get away from that sort of thing.
Now, Cloudfin Raptor on the other hand...
Now, Cloudfin Raptor on the other hand...
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
You are correct! In my experience Delver tends to be a bit poisonous, since it operates on such a different level from other aggressive creatures. In a way it's a very conflicted card: a "small", aggressive one-drop that doesn't want other aggressive creatures around. Cloudfin Raptor just gets with the program
I don't think the two really belong in the same zone of comparison. Cloudfin is basically just a traditional aggro creature you want to curve out with; Delver decks are more about establishing a board position using very cheap and powerful threats, and than being able to protect that board position.
I do agree that the card is a bit poisonous though in a lot of cubes.
I'd argue that poisonous might not be the right description for Delver. Unlike, say, affinity, dredge, or infect, Delver doesn't represent a linear mechanic that requires you to draft a critical mass of cards with a particular keyword before any of them are effective, nor is there a large swath of cards that no other archetype is interested in. The spells that a Delver deck is looking for - your Ponders, Remands and Cryptic Commands - will be contested by pretty much every other blue deck. It's more of a build-around anchor - not unlike Burning Vengeance - that changes your evaluation of a spectrum of cards. As with many other build-arounds, Delver itself will be a dead card if no one's drafting the deck on a given evening. But I think three slots in a 360 list isn't a huge price to pay to open up the possibility of that archetype coming together.
I'll concede that Delver is underpowered in many cubes, though, especially the ones that hew close to the typical powermax design. It's only recently as I've continued to dial back the power on my own list that Delver is finally getting its day in the sun.
I'll concede that Delver is underpowered in many cubes, though, especially the ones that hew close to the typical powermax design. It's only recently as I've continued to dial back the power on my own list that Delver is finally getting its day in the sun.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Wrath city I don't even run that many wraths anymore I do like the inclusion of multicolor wraths though, wish WotC printed some additional gold and playable wraths like Supreme Verdict, in other colors obviously.
I don't even run that many wraths anymore I do like the inclusion of multicolor wraths though, wish WotC printed some additional gold and playable wraths like Supreme Verdict, in other colors obviously.
I did 2-player draft/sealed thing (we were trying to come up with a new 2-player draft format. This one wasn't really cool, but we hit a better one later, which I'll tell you all about some time.) and this was the sweet deck I ended up with:
+a bunch more lands.
But man, what a load of sweet interactions in this deck!
RWBu +1/+1 Counter Recursive Aggro
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But man, what a load of sweet interactions in this deck!
Dom Harvey
Contributor
BW Wrath:
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I did 2-player draft/sealed thing (we were trying to come up with a new 2-player draft format. This one wasn't really cool, but we hit a better one later, which I'll tell you all about some time.) and this was the sweet deck I ended up with:
RWBu +1/+1 Counter Recursive Aggro
+a bunch more lands.
But man, what a load of sweet interactions in this deck!
Jeez double stormblood berserker! There's a 2 drop I'm afraid to double up on for fear of being too good.
That Psionic Blast is adorable, and almost certainly not worth it, but I like the rest of it.
Sunhome Guildmage though? Has he been good?
aw double berserker was a mistake, I only run 1. I'm thinking about running 2 though. Guildmage was pretty good here. Psi blast was awesome
4 sources, no problem.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
aw double berserker was a mistake, I only run 1. I'm thinking about running 2 though. Guildmage was pretty good here. Psi blast was awesome
I ment more that the blue sources you were running might have hurt you more than psionic blast might have helped.
RE: Berserker, I have doubled up on Gore-House Chainwaller, despite the silly name. I think I'm currently trying War-Name Aspirant (Man what is it with +1/+1 counter 2 drops and shitty names?), but I don't have high hopes for it. I suppose if you feel Berserker needs nerfing maybe.
Oh awesome I didn't know about that guy! Definitely gunna run him.
Actually I think I was running the Hallowed Fountain anyway so that Scalding Tarn fetched it. Damn, I think there's another dual land missing from that deck... I just have some crappy ipod pictures of it
Actually I think I was running the Hallowed Fountain anyway so that Scalding Tarn fetched it. Damn, I think there's another dual land missing from that deck... I just have some crappy ipod pictures of it
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Also, by far my favorite +1/+1 counter card: