General Decks that have 3-0'd your cube
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Blue Red Spells meets The Gravecrawlers?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Deck looks cool, no doubt! 
So many two-ofs!
Aside: When looking through your cube to figure out what Wishra's Light does, I noticed Soulscreamer mentions Mindshrieker in its text box. Sorry for pointing that out
So many two-ofs!Aside: When looking through your cube to figure out what Wishra's Light does, I noticed Soulscreamer mentions Mindshrieker in its text box. Sorry for pointing that out
Aoret
Developer
Shiiiiit. I'll have to fix that render and reprintAside: When looking through your cube to figure out what Wishra's Light does, I noticed Soulscreamer mentions Mindshrieker in its text box. Sorry for pointing that out
Actually... I kinda think that card isn't good for my format anyway. It may just get cut. Thanks for the catch though!
Well, target creature or player is a much tougher beast to tame than target creature (which can scale nearly infinitely without really causing issues). Is it a spell you want to be finishing players off with in your environment?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Hey thanks, at least I assume that was in reaction to the Search // Seizure discussion. You are totally right about target creature being able to scale without problems, and maybe it should be only target creatures, but then I'ld have to add another effect to make it not strictly worse than Spite of Mogis. I also kinda wonder if this deck isn't the ceiling for it. Most decks want to play 12-14 creatures, leaving less room for instants and sorceries than this deck played. And you have to have all of those in the bin as well (though Search obviously helps with that). Then again, that is the point with fuse spells, both parts should combine to do something stronger than the sum of the individual parts.
I think I have to test it out a bit more, and if it happens to end too many games I'll have to find something else for the Seizure part. Quick check, is Past in Flames for
too ridiculous?
Hey thanks, at least I assume that was in reaction to the Search // Seizure discussion. You are totally right about target creature being able to scale without problems, and maybe it should be only target creatures, but then I'ld have to add another effect to make it not strictly worse than Spite of Mogis. I also kinda wonder if this deck isn't the ceiling for it. Most decks want to play 12-14 creatures, leaving less room for instants and sorceries than this deck played. And you have to have all of those in the bin as well (though Search obviously helps with that). Then again, that is the point with fuse spells, both parts should combine to do something stronger than the sum of the individual parts.
I think I have to test it out a bit more, and if it happens to end too many games I'll have to find something else for the Seizure part. Quick check, is Past in Flames for
The main issue I see here is that the two halves don't really have anything to do with each other. If you look at the Fuse cards, the most common design is that Part 1 enhances the effect of part 2. Armed // Dangerous makes a big creature, that can then wreck the opponent's board. Alive // Well adds a creature before lifegain counts the number of creatures on board. Beck // Call sets you up to draw four.
With Search // Seizure, you are adding creatures to the yard, then counting spells. To me it would make far more sense if it counted cards. Obviously that's not as "blue-red" as "number of instants or sorceries", but casting Search really does nothing to enhance Seizure. Aesthetically and design wise, I like it much more if they connect.
There is precedent of red counting number of cards in graveyard:
Something like
: counter target spell unless its controller pays X, where X is the number of cards in your graveyardor
: <cardname> does X damage to target creature, where X is the number of cards in your graveyardworks better because casting the first part fuels the second part. I don't know if either of these is the design you are looking for, but, for reference, people were complaining about Fiery Confluence because they weren't sure if they wanted a 4-mana spell doming the opponent for 6. Your design is a two-mana spell that can dome the opponent for much more.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
The main issue I see here is that the two halves don't really have anything to do with each other. If you look at the Fuse cards, the most common design is that Part 1 enhances the effect of part 2. Armed // Dangerous makes a big creature, that can then wreck the opponent's board. Alive // Well adds a creature before lifegain counts the number of creatures on board. Beck // Call sets you up to draw four.
With Search // Seizure, you are adding creatures to the yard, then counting spells. To me it would make far more sense if it counted cards. Obviously that's not as "blue-red" as "number of instants or sorceries", but casting Search really does nothing to enhance Seizure. Aesthetically and design wise, I like it much more if they connect.
There is precedent of red counting number of cards in graveyard:
Something like
or
works better because casting the first part fuels the second part. I don't know if either of these is the design you are looking for, but, for reference, people were complaining about Fiery Confluence because they weren't sure if they wanted a 4-mana spell doming the opponent for 6. Your design is a two-mana spell that can dome the opponent for much more.
Note: I think you missed that Search actually can find any card, not just creatures. You could definitely search up a few instants and sorceries to increase the damage of Seizure. Part of the fun in designing these fuse cards was finding effects that work well together when the card is fused.
Anyway, I've been staring quite blindly at counting instants and sorceries because of the
casting cost. Counting all cards doesn't feel as . Temporary Insanity is the only red precedent for that effect, and it is from a block that cares very, very much about the graveyard. (The only other card with the text "number of cards in your graveyard" is black by the way.) Counting instants and sorceries, on the other hand, is a very effect, so you lose some flavor points when going in that direction. Counting cards scales a lot better though, especially in the early game, and lets you search for the cards you actually want to hit your graveyard when you fuse the spell, instead of those you need to increase your damage output. Plus, switching to all cards lets this card be not strictly worse than Spite of Mogis when dropping the problematic 'target player' part of the card. I think for the balance and playability of the card this is a great direction to go in, despite the lesser flavor. Great suggestion, thanks Jason!Search // Seizure
// Sorcery
Search your library for up to three cards and put them in your graveyard. Then shuffle your library.
//
Seizure deals damage to target creature equal to the number of cards in your graveyard.
//
Fuse (You may cast one or both halves of this card from your hand.)
Ah, sorry, I read Search as:
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Aoret
Developer
Yeah, it was kind of a weird direction to go. This was from a team sealed pool (played 1v1). When I laid out cards for my initial deck I had the gravecrawler/carrior feeder package but not a lot to back it up. I had the cards for a more pure control deck, but we were on a tighter timetable than normal and I didn't think I could pilot it correctly. I also felt somewhat incentivized to win with aggro control after going 2-1 with it in my last paper draft. It was kinda fun to try out a weirder flavor of the archetype than the standard UR or URw fare. The archetype honestly barely cares what 1 drop it runs out before all the counterspells, and having a renewable resource to punch through any blockers that did leak through the counter wall was kinda fun. Not better than any monastery mentor version of the deck, certainly, but for the format I was playing it was a pretty neat take!
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Yeah I definitely thought you meant a custom past in flames that cost R to cast, flashback U
It's these kind of suggestions I don't feel the need to comment on, I think people know shit like that is bonkers
It's these kind of suggestions I don't feel the need to comment on, I think people know shit like that is bonkers
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Hahaha, oh wow, no, please! I meant Past in Flames without flashback for a casting cost of
But I'm happy with Jason's suggestion!
Hahaha, oh wow, no, please! I meant Past in Flames without flashback for a casting cost of
If you don't run rituals it seems like a fairer 'fair yawg will' but if you do, or have several strong cheap spells available, it's incredibly dangerous. That's my opinion, anyway.
Plus, the flashback on Past in Flames is one of the bigger reasons to play the card imo, it gives you a redundant dredge plan
First time posting, but at longtime lurker. I'm coming here from the Peasant Cube Forum on MTGS as I've grown tired of the design restriction.
When searching for alternative ideas I came across this forum. I liked the Karoo + Egg setup of Grillo's cube so much that I used it as a jumping off point for my own cube. That alongside the wealth of ideas on this forum inspired a lot of its design.
I hosted an 8-man last night with it, and I 3-0 'd with this deck:
My drafters clearly undervalued the innocuous eggs, and I was more than happy to scoop up as many as possible to make my combo deck functionally 35 cards.
Highlight of the night was an opponent's endstep Harvest Pyre on Swans drawing 7 cards to dig for an Earthquake. Then casting it to deal my opponent a lethal 12 damage with Spitemare in play. It was a good first outing. I need to beef up the artifact/enchantment hate, but most games seemed to be full of memorable plays and complex game sequences.
Also Seeker + Armadillo Cloak was quite a thing.
When searching for alternative ideas I came across this forum. I liked the Karoo + Egg setup of Grillo's cube so much that I used it as a jumping off point for my own cube. That alongside the wealth of ideas on this forum inspired a lot of its design.
I hosted an 8-man last night with it, and I 3-0 'd with this deck:
Naya Piñata
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My drafters clearly undervalued the innocuous eggs, and I was more than happy to scoop up as many as possible to make my combo deck functionally 35 cards.
Highlight of the night was an opponent's endstep Harvest Pyre on Swans drawing 7 cards to dig for an Earthquake. Then casting it to deal my opponent a lethal 12 damage with Spitemare in play. It was a good first outing. I need to beef up the artifact/enchantment hate, but most games seemed to be full of memorable plays and complex game sequences.
Also Seeker + Armadillo Cloak was quite a thing.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
RESPECT THE SABER ANTS OR DIE BY THE SABER ANTS!!!
Pinatas is one of the favorite themes in my cube, but it hasn't taken the 3-0 yet. I don't think its even 2-1'd. All of the individual cards have showed promise, but it seems that trying to put a bunch of them into critical mass has diluted the decks actual "game" too much. Decks choosing to just play Hornet Nest and Broodhatch Nantuko with Domri and Earthquake in a typical curve to 4 R/G deck, for example, have done significantly better then those trying to fit in more pieces. This list here with its 5 cantrips makes me wonder if it RUG Pinata might be a better angle to take and treat it more like a true combo deck.
Pinatas is one of the favorite themes in my cube, but it hasn't taken the 3-0 yet. I don't think its even 2-1'd. All of the individual cards have showed promise, but it seems that trying to put a bunch of them into critical mass has diluted the decks actual "game" too much. Decks choosing to just play Hornet Nest and Broodhatch Nantuko with Domri and Earthquake in a typical curve to 4 R/G deck, for example, have done significantly better then those trying to fit in more pieces. This list here with its 5 cantrips makes me wonder if it RUG Pinata might be a better angle to take and treat it more like a true combo deck.
I found that Myth Realized, Seeker of the Way, Swans, Outpost Siege, and Armadillo Cloak really gave me a lot of staying power against the decks I faced (Gruul Power Matters, Selesnya Tokens, and Dimir Draw-Go), but I'm also running a pretty lean/situational removal suite:
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/39807
I definitely like white for this deck...Pariah is another piece that white offers while doubling as removal. I've considered Nearthearth Pilgrim and Volcano Hellion as additional support, but Hellion seems pretty bad in other contexts.
The thing I like most about blue is Nin, the Pain Artist (which I drafted, but couldn't work out with my mana base.) This deck played out like a control deck with a combo finish. I'm not sure if it's suited for being a legit combo deck given the high cmc of the combo pieces....at least not in a more powerful cube.
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/39807
I definitely like white for this deck...Pariah is another piece that white offers while doubling as removal. I've considered Nearthearth Pilgrim and Volcano Hellion as additional support, but Hellion seems pretty bad in other contexts.
The thing I like most about blue is Nin, the Pain Artist (which I drafted, but couldn't work out with my mana base.) This deck played out like a control deck with a combo finish. I'm not sure if it's suited for being a legit combo deck given the high cmc of the combo pieces....at least not in a more powerful cube.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
This looks pretty sweet. There are a few cards that seem a bit disjointed in terms of power level vs. the rest of the cube, and some cards that I am happy to see being run.
Your white removal looks a little underpowered compared to what the other colors are offering, but if you wish to upgrade removal pieces that should be very easy to do.
Really happy to see:
Not so excited about
The first two just shut down some decks, while the others seem far over the power level of the rest of the cube.
I like the land arrangement, opting to go with the cycling lands in combination with the bouncelands to fuel some of the graveyard strategies.
Did you have a loam deck? It might be fun to run some of the retreats, and have that sort of be the "lands" deck, using cycling lands as the draw engine.
Your white removal looks a little underpowered compared to what the other colors are offering, but if you wish to upgrade removal pieces that should be very easy to do.
Really happy to see:
Not so excited about
The first two just shut down some decks, while the others seem far over the power level of the rest of the cube.
I like the land arrangement, opting to go with the cycling lands in combination with the bouncelands to fuel some of the graveyard strategies.
Did you have a loam deck? It might be fun to run some of the retreats, and have that sort of be the "lands" deck, using cycling lands as the draw engine.
Note taken on all of those cards. Propaganda in particular was a problem last night.
There was no loam deck this go around, but I also don't think I've figured out exactly the best way to support it as an archetype. I've considered Entomb, Crucible of Worlds, Knight of the Reliquary, Molten Vortex....Keldon Firebombers....slightly junkier stuff like Centaur Vinecrasher, Tilling Treefolk. Crucible could be pretty decent here without stuff like Strip Mine and Wasteland to make it silly. Playing your cycled lands is sweet, but not exactly game changing. Running more than one Loam seems like a bad idea since it has the potential to be such a ridiculous value card in my cube.
A Retreat or two could be nice, but they all feel a little clunky. I'm not a big fan of non-creature permanents that don't effect the board state while relying on you to have both creatures and draw more lands to gain value. I think the Retrace cards provide a similar long term value while also generating something upon casting.
The cycling lands add a nice subtle layer of interaction like the eggs do with Prowess..draw triggers like Chasm Skulker/Lorescale Coatl/Countryside Crusher and Delve mostly. Given that aggro doesn't really start until turn 2 in my cube they're not much of a liability.
I'll try to get a legit deck post up soon as I'd love to hit the drawing board with you guys.
There was no loam deck this go around, but I also don't think I've figured out exactly the best way to support it as an archetype. I've considered Entomb, Crucible of Worlds, Knight of the Reliquary, Molten Vortex....Keldon Firebombers....slightly junkier stuff like Centaur Vinecrasher, Tilling Treefolk. Crucible could be pretty decent here without stuff like Strip Mine and Wasteland to make it silly. Playing your cycled lands is sweet, but not exactly game changing. Running more than one Loam seems like a bad idea since it has the potential to be such a ridiculous value card in my cube.
A Retreat or two could be nice, but they all feel a little clunky. I'm not a big fan of non-creature permanents that don't effect the board state while relying on you to have both creatures and draw more lands to gain value. I think the Retrace cards provide a similar long term value while also generating something upon casting.
The cycling lands add a nice subtle layer of interaction like the eggs do with Prowess..draw triggers like Chasm Skulker/Lorescale Coatl/Countryside Crusher and Delve mostly. Given that aggro doesn't really start until turn 2 in my cube they're not much of a liability.
I'll try to get a legit deck post up soon as I'd love to hit the drawing board with you guys.
Jeskai (very slightly black) Spells Matter
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First try drafting 2 out of 3 modules in my now modular cube. Draft felt on rails, which is good - I can now scale back the archetypes for more good stuff and bring balance to the force.
The deck was so broken it's making me reconsider Quirk's suggestion to remove Monastery Mentor on the grounds of being GRBS. It really felt like it in this deck. Also, Citadel Siege. I need +1/+1 enablers, but not like this.
No, Panoptic Mirror didn't get cast, maybe that's why this deck won. I was also hoping to test Shu Yun, but with Mentor of the Meek, Monastery Mentor, Guttersnipe and Lingering Souls, it never seemed correct to cast him.
Exceeded expectations:
Yeah Citadel Siege is like taking a chainsaw to hot butter
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yup, it left my cube a while ago. That thing is ridiculous, and hard to remove as well. It turned out to be not the anthem I wanted.
A small break in cubing, but here's a few 3-0's, one from my main cube and one from my reject rare cube
Worldknit has been doing work lately, i really recommend adding it to your cube
Shoutout to Zuran Orb that won both games in the finals against Boros Aggro.. Funny thing is, Zuran Orb was a last pick that i wasn't too happy with in the first place
Reject Rare Cube was a blast yet again... we saw some crazy plays, here's to tell a few:
Perplexing Chimera exchanged an otherwise lethal Maga, Traitor to Mortals to my opponent, because he didn't realize i can also swap the target
One of the players won a game by milling the opponent while having Solitary Confinement, Oath of Lim-DÛl and Timesifter in play
We also saw some PT-level play when Player A played T1 Grindstone. Player B T3 played Celestial Dawn. Player A then activated Grindstone on his T3 and Player B goes "Oops, i'll scoop"
Worldknit
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Worldknit has been doing work lately, i really recommend adding it to your cube
Shoutout to Zuran Orb that won both games in the finals against Boros Aggro.. Funny thing is, Zuran Orb was a last pick that i wasn't too happy with in the first place
Enchantrashress
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Reject Rare Cube was a blast yet again... we saw some crazy plays, here's to tell a few:
Perplexing Chimera exchanged an otherwise lethal Maga, Traitor to Mortals to my opponent, because he didn't realize i can also swap the target
One of the players won a game by milling the opponent while having Solitary Confinement, Oath of Lim-DÛl and Timesifter in play
We also saw some PT-level play when Player A played T1 Grindstone. Player B T3 played Celestial Dawn. Player A then activated Grindstone on his T3 and Player B goes "Oops, i'll scoop"
Is there a list handy, or is it different every time?