Just signed up for the site, great stuff! in case it is helpful, we have a "Counters Matter" cube that we've been running for a few years, and we do a podcast/twitch cast/youtubee channel about cube you may be interested in. I'm so happy to see others picking up on how fun and interactive the theme is in cube. I'm on my cell phone now, I post more links and details later, but I saw this post and had to chime in!
Card/Deck +1/+1 Counters
- Thread starter James Stevenson
- Start date
I'd love to see your cube. This is a theme I've followed for awhile now but only recently started looking at including. I'm very surprised (though I probably should be) by how many playable cards already are in my cube that interact with +1/+1 counters. So adding a handful of incentive cards and making a few supporting swaps seems a natural evolution that can only be a net positive I'm thinking.
Yeah, counters are fantastic with the Khans stuff. But they were great even before Khans thanks in large part to Lorwyn, which is underrated!
So, I'm actually in the process of moving into a new house this weekend, so non cell phone access is tough, I'll post all my stuff Tommorrow or Monday. For now, here's the cubehttp://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/7961 and here's the YouTube channel:https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCIBCdX9utlQfErAJJoe0XhA we will aslo be starting a podcast only series "thinking inside the box" about cube design starting in June
Gaming podcasts usually contain too low a density of information to hold my attention. Too-long stretches of friendly chit chat or anecdotal tangents. Check out ep 16 of RMM for an example of an information rich podcast. And good luck with your move and podcast series!
http://remakingmagic.libsyn.com/re-making-magic-episode-16
http://remakingmagic.libsyn.com/re-making-magic-episode-16
Welcome! I've seen your cube before on cubetutor, be good when you have some time to post your cube as you have some interesting cards I'd like to ask you about.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Interesting cube! I find it strange that with all the counter stuff you have and want to play up, there's a single proliferate card: Thrummingbird.
Was Volt Charge, Contagion Clasp, or Tezzeret's Gambit not cutting the mustard? I haven't really found success with much other than volt charge myself, but I thought I'd ask
Decided to open a new thread in the Cube post section and stop hijacking this one, sorry. I was just very surprised to find this! Chris, response to you can be found in the Cube lists section.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Anybody tried this guy?
Having Mikaeus, the Luncarch next to Ion Storm is really good fun. Chronomaton has much less play to it, but it is colorless, which helps. The thing is, would anybody play it without +1/+1 counter cards?
This Chronomaton discussion looks funny now that we have:
who is enough reason by himself to go deep on +1/+1 counters IMO
Chris Taylor
Contributor
This Chronomaton discussion looks funny now that we have:
who is enough reason by himself to go deep on +1/+1 counters IMO
I can attest this card is way more solid than I ever thought possible of an artifact creature in a core set
I still like chronomonomonomonomanomonomatonotaton
Never much of a candy person but I still get reminded of this thing every time
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Alright, so I drafted this deck last night, came away with a few thoughts:
I'll just get the custom stuff out of the way quickly
Not Quite Icatian Javelineers:
This guy worked nicely. Mogg Fanatic isn't really good enough for cube anymore, but adding counters to this guy with Citadel Siege was awesome. I don't run Increasing Savagery, that could be cool too.
Dryad Mender:
Getting to keep the creature because you have proliferate or another source of counters is cool. This one wasn't that great, but the black deck (where it would have been good) had specifically: Bone Shredder, Skinrender, and Damnnation x2, but if he'd had Doom Blade, Shriekmaw, or Hero's downfall I'd have been happy. *Shrug*
Edit: Ah shit, you can regen from bone shredder. Well, that's my misplay.
Green Proliferate Cards:
Harmony Charm was nice, since having modes on anything is cool, but Lost Cache worked a bit less well. It's probably a good thing to have the option of jamming this on T1 to smooth out your curve, but it always felt disappointing to do so, like when you have to play an unkicked Dismantling Blow. I dunno.
I think if I'm going to add more proliferate cards, I'll go with what volt charge taught me: Cost 3, be removal. I noticed my deck felt very swingy: it either kept going and ran the opponent over if key things didn't get removed, or utterly died when they did.
Anyways, on to the more general discussion: EVERYTHING IN THIS GOD DAMN DECK COSTS 4!
(Kinda)
Hell I also had elite scaleguard (He might not be good enough, I dunno) and Battle Screech, had to cut both since my curve was so poor.
I'm more concerned with incentives here, since there's lots of creatures that happen to have +1/+1 counters on them strewn about the mana curve. Before you play something Like Volt Charge though, you're just playing creatures, and that doesn't make this deck interesting.
Looked back through the thread to find some Counter Reward Cards that don't cost 4:
The Bad:
Ion Storm: I find it's too slow, and I kinda want to keep my creatures big anyways. With the mana on the activation, I can't even profitably use it on creatures that were dying anyway, since Even Phantom Nomad takes 4 mana to fling at things
Ordeal of Heliod: And Friends. It's a shame the blue one works the best while I have this theme in Naya (FSR somehow manages for all his themes to be present in all his colors -_-). Red one is okay, but the oneshot counter + effect doesn't feel like a huge reward to me. Probably works better with heroic, where you get to double dip on the rewards.
Bramblewood Paragon: Trample is cool, but not really "This is just Grizzly Bears" cool. I'm not sure being Riot Devils instead is any better...
The good:
Hardened Scales: this has been pretty sweet actually. Cheap enough that it can be played in the same turn as a counter guy, and pre-Ajani Activation or Volt Charge it's backbreaking
Kitchen Finks: Lovely to put +1/+1 counters on, but given how strong the card already is and how many people want it, I wouldn't count on this
Rage Forger: FSR has a custom version that puts a counter on another creature when it ETBs, rather than each of your shamans. haven't tried it myself.
Abzan Falconer: Jumping the team is real, though I don't think I've ever outlasted him. 2/3 for 3 is surprisingly good.
There's not a lot of payoff. Does anyone have any cards they love for this theme? (Or Ideas, custom cards are cool too! Hell this is basically a tribal deck, maybe we can borrow cards from like goblins or elves or something? Actually yeah Ima go look over lorewyn again...)
I'll just get the custom stuff out of the way quickly
Not Quite Icatian Javelineers:
Dryad Mender:
Edit: Ah shit, you can regen from bone shredder. Well, that's my misplay.
Green Proliferate Cards:
I think if I'm going to add more proliferate cards, I'll go with what volt charge taught me: Cost 3, be removal. I noticed my deck felt very swingy: it either kept going and ran the opponent over if key things didn't get removed, or utterly died when they did.
Anyways, on to the more general discussion: EVERYTHING IN THIS GOD DAMN DECK COSTS 4!
(Kinda)Hell I also had elite scaleguard (He might not be good enough, I dunno) and Battle Screech, had to cut both since my curve was so poor.
I'm more concerned with incentives here, since there's lots of creatures that happen to have +1/+1 counters on them strewn about the mana curve. Before you play something Like Volt Charge though, you're just playing creatures, and that doesn't make this deck interesting.
Looked back through the thread to find some Counter Reward Cards that don't cost 4:
The Bad:
Ion Storm: I find it's too slow, and I kinda want to keep my creatures big anyways. With the mana on the activation, I can't even profitably use it on creatures that were dying anyway, since Even Phantom Nomad takes 4 mana to fling at things
Ordeal of Heliod: And Friends. It's a shame the blue one works the best while I have this theme in Naya (FSR somehow manages for all his themes to be present in all his colors -_-). Red one is okay, but the oneshot counter + effect doesn't feel like a huge reward to me. Probably works better with heroic, where you get to double dip on the rewards.
Bramblewood Paragon: Trample is cool, but not really "This is just Grizzly Bears" cool. I'm not sure being Riot Devils instead is any better...
The good:
Hardened Scales: this has been pretty sweet actually. Cheap enough that it can be played in the same turn as a counter guy, and pre-Ajani Activation or Volt Charge it's backbreaking
Kitchen Finks: Lovely to put +1/+1 counters on, but given how strong the card already is and how many people want it, I wouldn't count on this
Rage Forger: FSR has a custom version that puts a counter on another creature when it ETBs, rather than each of your shamans. haven't tried it myself.
Abzan Falconer: Jumping the team is real, though I don't think I've ever outlasted him. 2/3 for 3 is surprisingly good.
There's not a lot of payoff. Does anyone have any cards they love for this theme? (Or Ideas, custom cards are cool too! Hell this is basically a tribal deck, maybe we can borrow cards from like goblins or elves or something? Actually yeah Ima go look over lorewyn again...)
You're right about the everything costing 4 thing. I've just added:
So don't know how it's gone yet, but have high hopes, and it doesn't cost four. There's also
So don't know how it's gone yet, but have high hopes, and it doesn't cost four. There's also
Adding counters to this guy with Citadel Siege was awesome.
I love the flavor and mechanical interaction here. Mostly the flavor: you're sieging a citadel, but how, you might ask? By dumping rocks into this archer's hands to fling at the helpless polis.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Alfonzo Bonzo said:You're right about the everything costing 4 thing. I've just added:
So don't know how it's gone yet, but have high hopes, and it doesn't cost four. There's also
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Okay something is hella wrong with my post.
Can someone confirm you get a 4/3 Avatar if your T1 play is experiment one? I don't think so, since he's using the same wording clone does, but I thought I'd check.
I think Inspiring Call is a bit too dependent on you already winning to be good though.
Can someone confirm you get a 4/3 Avatar if your T1 play is experiment one? I don't think so, since he's using the same wording clone does, but I thought I'd check.
I think Inspiring Call is a bit too dependent on you already winning to be good though.
Nah, you're right about the clone wording. It counts during resolution so he would ETB with none, which triggers evolve from experiment one.
Also I think a javelin-type dude that used +1/+1 counters was discussed like a year ago or something, but I can't remember if people wanted smaller deathbringer thoctar or what you popped out.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I seem to remember smaller deathbringer thoctar probably ruining games
Also I should mention not having a tap symbol on Not Javalineers is key. being able to do 2 or attack then ping goes a long way
Also I should mention not having a tap symbol on Not Javalineers is key. being able to do 2 or attack then ping goes a long way
Marath, Will of the Wild passes out +1/+1 counters and gets better with things that add +1/+1 counters. Too bad it's a 3 color card.
Animar, Soul of Elements is another card that generates counters and rewards you for them but again, 3 colors.
Animar, Soul of Elements is another card that generates counters and rewards you for them but again, 3 colors.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Actually, Marath might be good. I like the scaling of his ability, dealing damage is cool, and making bodies is cool.
Hmmmm. Worst case I can make some weird slave of bolas style hybrid thing that's essentially him
Well if you're considering Marath, then,...
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Well if you're considering Marath, then,...
I'm considering Marath because I want to bring the curve of this deck down
Also my black section doesn't have any support for this thing, since there were a few cool enablers, but basically no dudes that just have +1/+1 counters on them
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Could this be good? I was listening to Limited Resources #2 for some old zen vs new zen perspective