General CBS

Velrun

Velrun

To everyone above me: Yes but Bring to Light demands more than just two-colors, right?

In a two-color deck it is a 5 mana tutor for a very small spell. In three-color I would probably still not run it.

This should in theory mean that even in SirFunchalot’s cube, the card is bad in 7 out of 8 of the players’ card pool if the deck spread is like Sir described in his example. Correct?

Here are the 8 decks as listed in the example used above:

Jund Midrange can’t cast it.
Mardu Pyromancer can’t cast it.
Jeskai Control can’t cast it.
Naya Zoo can’t cast it.
Abzan Midrange can’t cast it.

Sultai Midrange can cast it but probably shouldn’t run the card.
Niz-Mizzet 5-color can cast it and should run it.
 
SirFunchalot

SirFunchalot

Velrun said:
This should in theory mean that even in SirFunchalot’s cube, the card is bad in 7 out of 8 of the players’ card pool if the deck spread is like Sir described in his example. Correct?

Niz-Mizzet 5-color can cast it and should run it.
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This is correct and how I expect the card to play out. In the average draft it is purely present to be a signpost and power spike card for the 5c pile drafter in the same way that a card like Rootha, Mercurial Artist is for the Prismari drafter in Strixhaven limited. My format does have these more narrow payoff gold cards that are only really for one player at the table, it's just that they typically take the form of 3+ color cards like Leovold, Emissary of Trest or Wild Nacatl instead of 2 color cards.
 
Velrun

Velrun

SirFunchalot said:
This is correct and how I expect the card to play out. In the average draft it is purely present to be a signpost and power spike card for the 5c pile drafter in the same way that a card like Rootha, Mercurial Artist is for the Prismari drafter in Strixhaven limited. My format does have these more narrow payoff gold cards that are only really for one player at the table, it's just that they typically take the form of 3+ color cards like Leovold, Emissary of Trest or Wild Nacatl instead of 2 color cards.
Click to expand...

But in Strixhaven, Wizards expect several players to be in Prismari colors. At least one player but most likely two or three.
In Strixhaven often there is a 4 or 5-color player, there are always some 3-color players but most players will be 2-color.

The way I read your comment is you most often have exactly one player who is 5-color and that Bring to Light is made for that person.

Do you sometimes have several 5-color players?

For what it is worth, I would run Bring to Light in a 4-color deck as well so that increases its usefulness.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Velrun said:
But in Strixhaven, Wizards expect several players to be in Prismari colors. At least one player but most likely two or three.
In Strixhaven often there is a 4 or 5-color player, there are always some 3-color players but most players will be 2-color.

The way I read your comment is you most often have exactly one player who is 5-color and that Bring to Light is made for that person.

Do you sometimes have several 5-color players?

For what it is worth, I would run Bring to Light in a 4-color deck as well so that increases its usefulness.
Click to expand...
Bring to Light is a signpost to signal that 5-color is a supported archetype.
 
SirFunchalot

SirFunchalot

Velrun said:
But in Strixhaven, Wizards expect several players to be in Prismari colors. At least one player but most likely two or three.
In Strixhaven often there is a 4 or 5-color player, there are always some 3-color players but most players will be 2-color.

The way I read your comment is you most often have exactly one player who is 5-color and that Bring to Light is made for that person.

Do you sometimes have several 5-color players?

For what it is worth, I would run Bring to Light in a 4-color deck as well so that increases its usefulness.
Click to expand...

I know strixhaven draft often has some people stretching their colors outside of the defined lanes, I'm not really disputing that. Probably should have phrased my comment as ..."Rootha is for the prismari drafterS" rather than drafter, singular.
Onderzeeboot said:
Bring to Light is a signpost to signal that 5-color is a supported archetype.
Click to expand...

This.

And yes, sometimes there's more than one person in 5 colors, especially if Usman is drafting with us
 
Aston

Aston

There's also the possibility that a deck that's in blue and green but not full 4/5c would look to pick up a couple off colour mana sources so they can play Bring to Light for 4 or 5, even if they have no actual cards of those colours in the deck. A Savannah or Blood Crypt is not a huge cost in a Temur deck assuming a fetch heavy cube.
 
SirFunchalot

SirFunchalot

Aston said:
There's also the possibility that a deck that's in blue and green but not full 4/5c would look to pick up a couple off colour mana sources so they can play Bring to Light for 4 or 5, even if they have no actual cards of those colours in the deck. A Savannah or Blood Crypt is not a huge cost in a Temur deck assuming a fetch heavy cube.
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Half off-color duals do have a cost in my format sadly, I run 2x of Ghost Quarter, Field of Ruin, and Dust Bowl as well as other misc shit like Cleansing Wildfire. So while it's not a guarantee that you get punished for splashing non-basics, you certainly open yourself up to the possibility of getting some pretty gnarly blowouts if you do. Also just in general BTL doesn't have much to grab at 5 mana, there's only a handful of 5 drops in the entire cube and like 3 of them are just cards for the 5c pile deck (Niv-Mizzet, Golos, BTL itself). You also just like, don't want to really be spending 5 mana at sorcery speed in this format, unless you're getting something utterly ridiculous, which grabbing a random 4 drop usually isn't.
 
Velrun

Velrun

TrainmasterGT said:
Playing broken cards is a good reason to splash a color, yes.
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We're talking about SirFunchalot's cube. He himself have mentioned those cards are in. I'm simply drawing examples from his examples.

However it doesn't matter really which cards we use as examples. I just had to mention some. If we have a Blood Crypt in a fetch-heavy cube, we might as well splash cards like Dark Confidant, Bitterblossom, Thoughtseize or Vampiric Tutor. That was my whole point.
 
Aston

Aston

I was talking about a (theoretical but possible) situation where you don't have broken black cards sitting in your sideboard.
 
Velrun

Velrun

Has the color wheel switched for multicolor cards or is it just on CubeCobra?

It used to be:
Azorius
Dimir
Rakdos
Gruul
Selesnya
Orzhov
Golgari
Simic
Izzet
Boros




Now on CubeCobra it's:

Azorius
Dimir
Rakdos
Gruul
Selesnya
Orzhov
Izzet
Golgari
Boros
Simic
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Velrun said:
Has the color wheel switched for multicolor cards or is it just on CubeCobra?

It used to be:
Azorius
Dimir
Rakdos
Gruul
Selesnya
Orzhov
Golgari
Simic
Izzet
Boros




Now on CubeCobra it's:

Azorius
Dimir
Rakdos
Gruul
Selesnya
Orzhov
Izzet
Golgari
Boros
Simic
Click to expand...

Brad said:
The latter is the actual WotC wheel, afaik. It's the ordering I've always used.
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It's also the ordering I've always used.

W > U > B > R > G
WU > UB > BR > RG > GW
WB > UR > BG > RW > GU

The leading color determines the order of the wheel. You'll notice that that order is now consistent on CubeCobra. The previous order goes around the wheel linking up the last color of the previous pair with the first color of the new one.

WB > BG > GU > UR > RW

It looks good, but to me it doesn't make much sense when you relate it to the basic color wheel. However, I don't know about WB > UR > BG > RW > GU being the actual WotC wheel though.

Exhibit A: THE FIRST LESSON: INTRODUCTION TO STRIXHAVEN, February 18, 2021
In this article, Blake Rasmussen introduces the colleges of Strixhaven to us in alphabetical order, explaining along the way that the colleges were named after the Elder Dragon founders of each college. So, Lorehold, Prismari, Quandrix, Silverquill, and Witherbloom.

RW > UR > GU > WB > BG

Exhibit B: PLANESWALKER'S GUIDE TO STRIXHAVEN, April 1, 2021
In this article, Doug Beyer and Ari Zirulnik talk us through the plane of Arcavios, on which Strixhaven University is located. Among other things, they are writing about the colleges in the following order: Silverquill, Prismari, Witherbloom, Lorehold, Quandrix.

WB > UR > BG > RW > GU

You'll notice that this does actually use the same order as Brad and I, and now also CubeCobra, use. Hooray, a glimmer of consistency?

Exhibit C: MTG ARENA: STATE OF THE GAME – STRIXHAVEN: SCHOOL OF MAGES, April 7, 2021
In this article, Jay Parker talks us through the Strixhaven set in relation to digital play. In his opening paragraphs, he quickly mentions the colleges, and I quote: "Strixhaven is known for its five colleges: Silverquill, Witherbloom, Quandrix, Prismari, and Lorehold.".

WB > BG > GU > UR > RW

Wait. What? That's the old order on CubeCobra! What's going on? I had some hope for consistency, but you nipped that hope in the bud Jay! Snuff out that dream, won't you!

Exhibit D: STRIXHAVEN: SCHOOL OF MAGES PRERELEASE PRIMER, April 12, 2021
In this article, Gavin Verhey gives you some pointers on how to succesfully enjoy your prerelease. Of course he explains you can join one of the five colleges. He even shows you a deckbox for each guild, and he shows them in the following order: Lorehold, Prismari, Quandrix, Witherbloom, Silverquill.

RW > UR > GU > BG > WB

Ha! You thought he was going for alphabetical order again, didn't you! Fooled you! There is actually a logical order here, and it's that the first color of the first pair is the second color of the second pair. So RW > UR share R, UR and GU share U, and so on. I say logical, but...

Curses. I give up! WotC's ordering of the colleges, and thus the color pairs, is all over the place! I've cited four mothership articles, and each one of them uses a different order! Does it really come down to personal preference?

...

...

...



Well, humans are fallible, but the Guildpact can't be wrong, can it? This is official art! This is something we can latch on to! If we observe the order of the enemy guilds in clockwise order, we see Orzhov, Izzet, Golgari, Boros, and finally Simic.

WB > UR > BG > RW > GU

This. This is my final answer. Thank you Nic Klein, for reminding us of the true order of color pairs. May your piece of art remind WotC employees to make some fricking sense in the future. A toast to consistency! Cheers!
 
Velrun

Velrun

I am baffled

Wherever I look it is the same order:
Azorius, Dimir, Rakdos, Gruul, Selesnya
Orzhov, Izzet, Golgari, Boros, Simic

This is so weird to me because I have played since the beginning of Magic and always had the order wrong appearently.

To me this feels like en expansion to the game has been released where they changed the rules, fascinating!

Ondezeeboot the Tablet of the Guilds only appear in the right order if you exclude half of the guilds and put them back in. Right now it is ordered like this: Azorius, Orzhov, Dimir, Izzet, Rakdos, Golgari, Gruul, Boros, Selesnya, Simic. So if you ignore half of the guildpact, then it makes sense, lol :)
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Velrun said:
I am baffled

Wherever I look it is the same order:
Azorius, Dimir, Rakdos, Gruul, Selesnya
Orzhov, Izzet, Golgari, Boros, Simic

This is so weird to me because I have played since the beginning of Magic and always had the order wrong appearently.

To me this feels like en expansion to the game has been released where they changed the rules, fascinating!

Ondezeeboot the Tablet of the Guilds only appear in the right order if you exclude half of the guilds and put them back in. Right now it is ordered like this: Azorius, Orzhov, Dimir, Izzet, Rakdos, Golgari, Gruul, Boros, Selesnya, Simic. So if you ignore half of the guildpact, then it makes sense, lol :)
Click to expand...
You might notice that my conclusion was pretty tongue in cheek ;) In reality, there appears to be no set order for the enemy color guilds. If there would be a set order, you would expect WotC employees to be aware of it, after all, and the fact that I was able to find four different articles with four different orders is telling enough. I didn't even tell this in my original post, but those four articles I used as 'exhibits' were actually the first four articles I found that had all five colleges in them. I didn't even need to cherry pick, the inconsistency is just there.

Honestly, this would be a pretty good question for Question Mark or Blogatog.
 
inscho

inscho

I've always ordered them Orzhov, Golgari, Simic, Izzet, Boros

It makes the most sense to me because adjacent guilds complete a wedge. Similar to the adjacent allied colors completing a shard.

Orzhov, Izzet, Golgari, Boros, Simic is dumb, and I will have none of it.
 
Velrun

Velrun

inscho said:
I've always ordered them Orzhov, Golgari, Simic, Izzet, Boros

It makes the most sense to me because adjacent guilds complete a wedge. Similar to the adjacent allied colors completing a shard.

Orzhov, Izzet, Golgari, Boros, Simic is dumb, and I will have none of it.
Click to expand...

Same here. I think I have done this for twenty years. It’s on my backbone and in my heart.

The reason why I thought that was the official was because it made so much sense. It goes in a perfect wheel and when you move from one Guild to the next you cut a color and add another in the order of the color pie.

With the current one, there is no overlapping colors.
 
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