Dom Harvey
Contributor
Tried forcing a BG graveyard deck and ended up with this nice number:
BGr Graveyard from CubeTutor.com
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Erik's "The cool side of Magic" cube
- Thread starter Erik Twice
- Start date
That does also look very sweet. You have drafted my cube several times and everytime I've liked the resulting deck. I often take a look at your lists to see what's working and what isn't. So, thank you! 
I actually went and test your deck and I can say it's really strong. It gives my "measuring stick" UWb Blink a run for its money and it's no slouch:
The reason I test against this deck is that it's very strong, interactive yet firmly fair. It represents very well what I want in my cube, even if it has Land Tax in it. The games were tense and made me think about the appropiate power level of my cube, as well as what support cards can be changed.
So far, it seems there are two of tiers of decks in my cube:
Tier 1: Working very well, only small tweaks needed:
WR Aggro
WB Hatebears
UW Blink
URW Spells
GB Graveyard
Tier 2: Has potential, but is not truly competitive or unreliable:
GRx Lands
Rx Wildfire
UR Artifacts
UBR Reanimator
The problem I've found with these decks is that they don't quite come together. That is, it's easy to get hands that are too slow or too clunky or too heavy and end up in topdeck mode, hoping for your deck's gear to come in. My hope is that some of the cards I've added make these archetypes more playable:
These are versatile cards that buy time, find pieces and help synergetic decks come together. They are better than just jamming removal and hoping to trade 1 for 1 until you draw your engines. I think they are the difference between a shody deck that got a bunch of Doom Blades and an interactive, engine-driven deck.
BTW, I've fallen in love with Hogaak. What a fun card to play in a fair way, a shame it broke modern because I love how it plays.
I actually went and test your deck and I can say it's really strong. It gives my "measuring stick" UWb Blink a run for its money and it's no slouch:
UW Blink from CubeTutor.com
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The reason I test against this deck is that it's very strong, interactive yet firmly fair. It represents very well what I want in my cube, even if it has Land Tax in it. The games were tense and made me think about the appropiate power level of my cube, as well as what support cards can be changed.
So far, it seems there are two of tiers of decks in my cube:
Tier 1: Working very well, only small tweaks needed:
WR Aggro
WB Hatebears
UW Blink
URW Spells
GB Graveyard
Tier 2: Has potential, but is not truly competitive or unreliable:
GRx Lands
Rx Wildfire
UR Artifacts
UBR Reanimator
The problem I've found with these decks is that they don't quite come together. That is, it's easy to get hands that are too slow or too clunky or too heavy and end up in topdeck mode, hoping for your deck's gear to come in. My hope is that some of the cards I've added make these archetypes more playable:
These are versatile cards that buy time, find pieces and help synergetic decks come together. They are better than just jamming removal and hoping to trade 1 for 1 until you draw your engines. I think they are the difference between a shody deck that got a bunch of Doom Blades and an interactive, engine-driven deck.
BTW, I've fallen in love with Hogaak. What a fun card to play in a fair way, a shame it broke modern because I love how it plays.
I've hit the rest button on Cubetutor's draft bots. The reason is that I've changed such a large portion of my cube and forced certain archetypes so much that I was starting to get a very strange view of my cube. Trade Routes should go last, not dissapear on pick 2.
To pick up speed I drafted a bunch of decks. They turned out well, though they tend to be centered on a couple archetypes (2 Artifact decks, 2 Wildfire/Upheaval decks, 3 Survival decks). They were all different colours and builds but the ideas were there. Most importantyly, I noticed that the decks that didn't work out were aggressive decks with green in them. Green is not working too well as a support colour because it has little to offer beyond mana dorks. It needs creatures aggro, stompy or ponza want not just mana acceleration.
I also suspect I need 1 more piece of equipment. I think I need a Sword or other expensive piece to compliment my set.
Some cards that aren't working too well and I might cut or replace:
Angel of Despair works a reanimation target. However, you can't hard-cast it in reanimation decks and it's too expensive for the typical WB decks which tend to have hatebears or blink. I still have lots of white slots so I can dedicate those to making control more viable. Angel of Despair would see play in those decks.
Exhume is too fair for my cube. Since Reanimator has moved more and more towards value, giving the other player a free creature is kind of a pain. Reanimating a Gearhulk is good value, reanimating a Gearhulk and seeing your opponent bring back a 3cc hatebear is not. There are also a bunch of cards that hurt a lot if your opponent Exhumes, like Nekraatal, Man'o War and Venser, Shaper Savant. I would run Reanimate because I like the life loss and the historicity of the card but forcing a discard on the first turn by doing nothing and then reanimating your dude is not something I want (I purged all my split cards so I can't run the very similar Life//Death).
Ohran Viper is a nice card. But it's a control card and it ends up int his awkard space of not being what aggro wants and not being very good in control because you are splashing better options. It can be played in midrange, but it needs equipment, IMHO.
Jori En, Ruin Diver is good in paper but I don't see UR Artifact decks or UR control really wanting this card. It's simply a spells-matter card, at a glance.
Graveborn Muse is a very cool card. Great design, powerful and also yet another 4-drop that is hard to splash. It suffers from being too "nice-have" for a card draw spell compared to Phyrexian Arena and Bob.
To pick up speed I drafted a bunch of decks. They turned out well, though they tend to be centered on a couple archetypes (2 Artifact decks, 2 Wildfire/Upheaval decks, 3 Survival decks). They were all different colours and builds but the ideas were there. Most importantyly, I noticed that the decks that didn't work out were aggressive decks with green in them. Green is not working too well as a support colour because it has little to offer beyond mana dorks. It needs creatures aggro, stompy or ponza want not just mana acceleration.
I also suspect I need 1 more piece of equipment. I think I need a Sword or other expensive piece to compliment my set.
Some cards that aren't working too well and I might cut or replace:
Angel of Despair works a reanimation target. However, you can't hard-cast it in reanimation decks and it's too expensive for the typical WB decks which tend to have hatebears or blink. I still have lots of white slots so I can dedicate those to making control more viable. Angel of Despair would see play in those decks.
Exhume is too fair for my cube. Since Reanimator has moved more and more towards value, giving the other player a free creature is kind of a pain. Reanimating a Gearhulk is good value, reanimating a Gearhulk and seeing your opponent bring back a 3cc hatebear is not. There are also a bunch of cards that hurt a lot if your opponent Exhumes, like Nekraatal, Man'o War and Venser, Shaper Savant. I would run Reanimate because I like the life loss and the historicity of the card but forcing a discard on the first turn by doing nothing and then reanimating your dude is not something I want (I purged all my split cards so I can't run the very similar Life//Death).
Ohran Viper is a nice card. But it's a control card and it ends up int his awkard space of not being what aggro wants and not being very good in control because you are splashing better options. It can be played in midrange, but it needs equipment, IMHO.
Jori En, Ruin Diver is good in paper but I don't see UR Artifact decks or UR control really wanting this card. It's simply a spells-matter card, at a glance.
Graveborn Muse is a very cool card. Great design, powerful and also yet another 4-drop that is hard to splash. It suffers from being too "nice-have" for a card draw spell compared to Phyrexian Arena and Bob.
I couldn't sleep tonight and I ended up discovering a treasure trove of information: The MTGS Extended archives. Man, what a format. Aggro-Loam, Kiki-Jikki Oppossition, Madness, Balancing Act, Mind's Desire combo, Cephalid Breakfast, Gifts Rock...Looking back, I don't think it's notalgia, it was just a great format. This is all from Kamigawa onwards, of course. Old Extended had Tinker and Oath of Druids and I wouldn't call it great.
Like I mentioned in my opening post, one of my design goals was to capture some of the values of that era.And like I mentioned, I did not attempt to replicate it too much because creatures are weak. Even if there was a lot of variety in the format, creature-wise Extended turned around the same handful of creatures because there wasn't much else that you could play. Including Tempest cards also requires a higher power level on creatures.
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Anyways, I'm still stuck. I really am. I have all this space to boost white-based archetypes and I'm not taking advantage of it. And I'm not even filling up my blue and black slots, as if there was nothing I could run in them D:
Like I mentioned in my opening post, one of my design goals was to capture some of the values of that era.And like I mentioned, I did not attempt to replicate it too much because creatures are weak. Even if there was a lot of variety in the format, creature-wise Extended turned around the same handful of creatures because there wasn't much else that you could play. Including Tempest cards also requires a higher power level on creatures.
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Anyways, I'm still stuck. I really am. I have all this space to boost white-based archetypes and I'm not taking advantage of it. And I'm not even filling up my blue and black slots, as if there was nothing I could run in them D:
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Have you thought about cutting white?
Who hasn't?
Nah, I do like what White offers. I'm just a bit uninspired and busy with writing. I mean, white is already supporting blink, artifact aggro, aristocrats, hatebears and control. That's great! Could it be better? Sure, but my frustration mostly comes from not being able to fill the remaining slots.
I guess I just need to give it some time
All right, let's work on this again. After thinking about it, I think the way to go with white in my cube is to make it a better support color. There are already a few white-centered archetypes so it seems a good step. Still, I would want to deepen de colour with an additional archetype.
Casket is removal and artifact synergy. It was a clear include the moment Eldraine was released.
Collective Effort and Valorous Stance are support spells. Two might be one too many.
Recruiter of the Guard replaces Imperial Recruiter. Red used to have it to tutor for Goblin Welder. Now I feel better if they splash for the effect or if they use their looting effects to get what they want.
I think Teshar, Acenstor's Apostle kind of sucks but people seem to like it so I'm going to give her a second chance. After all, she's artifact synergy. I might add a couple Chromatic Spheres to make her more playable.
I want to like Scepter. I had to cut Icy Manipulator (which I love!) because 4 mana was a touch too high but it seems solid at 3. It's also an artifact and I can see it working in many decks with white (like Wildfire). Let's hope it works.
Harm's Way is bad and doesn't fit what I want the colour to do.
Imperial Recruiter is replaced by Recruiter of the Guard.
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With so much space in WB I'm tempted to run a life-gain theme. But I'm not sure it actually synergizes with anything or that it's fun. WB enchantments should also work, perhaps WBG woulld be a good place for it. However, I don't know how many enchantments I would need to run to make the archetype viable. The support (Rector, Replenish, reanimation spells) is easy, it's the filler that's hard.
Casket is removal and artifact synergy. It was a clear include the moment Eldraine was released.
Collective Effort and Valorous Stance are support spells. Two might be one too many.
Recruiter of the Guard replaces Imperial Recruiter. Red used to have it to tutor for Goblin Welder. Now I feel better if they splash for the effect or if they use their looting effects to get what they want.
I think Teshar, Acenstor's Apostle kind of sucks but people seem to like it so I'm going to give her a second chance. After all, she's artifact synergy. I might add a couple Chromatic Spheres to make her more playable.
I want to like Scepter. I had to cut Icy Manipulator (which I love!) because 4 mana was a touch too high but it seems solid at 3. It's also an artifact and I can see it working in many decks with white (like Wildfire). Let's hope it works.
Harm's Way is bad and doesn't fit what I want the colour to do.
Imperial Recruiter is replaced by Recruiter of the Guard.
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With so much space in WB I'm tempted to run a life-gain theme. But I'm not sure it actually synergizes with anything or that it's fun. WB enchantments should also work, perhaps WBG woulld be a good place for it. However, I don't know how many enchantments I would need to run to make the archetype viable. The support (Rector, Replenish, reanimation spells) is easy, it's the filler that's hard.
By the way, I've decided to cut Falkenrath Aristocrat. It's extremely strong. If it were either indestructible or had haste, it would be fine, but both in tandem makes it very hard to deal with. Bounce doesn't work, burn doesn't work, traditional removal doesn't work...Only exile effects do and those are only in white. You can steal it, I guess, but that only turns the problem back to the original owner. It's also easy to splash and I see it's the right choice to do so when possible.
Ah, no worries. So far what I do is copy the decklist in TappedOut, load the blink deck on a different window and then play them against each other. It's a bit annoying but hey, it works!
So I've finally gone and filled up all the remaining slots. I'm going to do a round of cuts and suggestions from you guys and then go to the printer and start picking up the cheap cards. Let's get it rolling for real this time.
If you have any suggestions or think certain cards don't work, just let me know.
If you have any suggestions or think certain cards don't work, just let me know.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Printer + Cheap cards is my favorite card store
Job search, 18XX and Dune have taken most of my time lately but I wanted to work on the cube a bit. It's going to take some time for me to be able to get it done physically so I've been able to change some slots and experiment.
There have been no important changes, though. I've just added more staples or generally useful cards to round out slots. Like these:
I've gone a bit overboard to add some variety. I'm aiming for at least 400 cards. I've also reworked my gold sections, removing some questionable cards and adding others that fit a little bit better.
My cube is fairly on rails compared to the average cube here but I think that can be fixed with some minor changes and additional support. Still, I won't play it too often so it's not much of an issue.
I've also doubled Birthing Pod. It's not only a neat archetype, it's in less commonly used colour combinations. I'm also trying out two copies of Life from the Loam. Which seems overkill for such a small cube. I've also replaced Molten Vortex with Seismic Assault because the activation cost is painful.
There have been no important changes, though. I've just added more staples or generally useful cards to round out slots. Like these:
I've gone a bit overboard to add some variety. I'm aiming for at least 400 cards. I've also reworked my gold sections, removing some questionable cards and adding others that fit a little bit better.
My cube is fairly on rails compared to the average cube here but I think that can be fixed with some minor changes and additional support. Still, I won't play it too often so it's not much of an issue.
I've also doubled Birthing Pod. It's not only a neat archetype, it's in less commonly used colour combinations. I'm also trying out two copies of Life from the Loam. Which seems overkill for such a small cube. I've also replaced Molten Vortex with Seismic Assault because the activation cost is painful.
I've booked several weeks of boardgames and L5R so I have even more time to polish my cube.
First, I built this "Lands deck" that is much stronger than it seems at first glance:
It looks like a pile of good carsd mixed with jank, but it's actually very strong. As it turns out, Winding Way is stronger than Impulse and ramping into Kavus and creatures with a big butt is very strong. I like that the deck uses general GR control tools like Crater Hellion or Tarmogoyf and isn't very heavily parasitic. Seismic Assault is much stronger than Molten Vortex because you can play it and then fling two lands. Vortex gets into weird situations where you have to chooe to either play your cards or use it.
The card I don't like is Zuran Orb. Zuran Orb is extremely strong, because it's very easy to reach the baseline 2 life per turn and close the game by gaining 8 life in one go. It's a very hard crutch for when the rest of the deck doesn't come together and I think I would rather boost the archetype in other directions and then take away Orb.
Scroll Rack keeps being dissapointing. It should get cut, but I really like the design.
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Some thoughts on archetypes in my cube:
I want Bx Stax to be more of a thing. It's there and it works but it seems less defined than the other archetypes. I really liked this deck a fellow Riptider drafted:
BRgu has a madness/discard subtheme that I enjoy but is not very polished at the moment.
Part of the "issue" is that it's in four colours. You use U to play reanimatior, G to play value, W to move into aristocrats. I should look into Inscho's cube a bit and see how he defines it. Note that this is not a bad thing, it means the cards are very versatile and there's more variety in drafting and deckbuilding, I would just like to make it easier to play and less likely to end in a pile of overcosted cards.
GR Monsters needs helps. The pair is working well in control, but it's not doing as well when it comes to midrange. Here's an example. It doesn't look bad, but it doesn't feel right to me:
UWR Spells is the kind of deck that just absorbs everything in its path. It's versatile and not difficult to build.
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Random cuts or potential cuts:
These cards are fine. However, they are the kinds of cards you end up cutting or don't really care about. Skirge, for example, becomes much less interesting with the increased number of UW flyers. The two exceptions are Zuran Orb, which is a balance cut, and Meloku, which is strong but not really necessary and less interesting than Sharding Sphinx or other control finishers.
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Lastly, I think my archetypes suffer from a lack of non-blue card advantage. Green has some and can deal with it, but I often see matches slowing down into topdecking. This is one of the drawbacks of not having planeswalkers, since it's how WotC has given White and Red card advantage.
First, I built this "Lands deck" that is much stronger than it seems at first glance:
Gruul Lands from CubeTutor.com
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It looks like a pile of good carsd mixed with jank, but it's actually very strong. As it turns out, Winding Way is stronger than Impulse and ramping into Kavus and creatures with a big butt is very strong. I like that the deck uses general GR control tools like Crater Hellion or Tarmogoyf and isn't very heavily parasitic. Seismic Assault is much stronger than Molten Vortex because you can play it and then fling two lands. Vortex gets into weird situations where you have to chooe to either play your cards or use it.
The card I don't like is Zuran Orb. Zuran Orb is extremely strong, because it's very easy to reach the baseline 2 life per turn and close the game by gaining 8 life in one go. It's a very hard crutch for when the rest of the deck doesn't come together and I think I would rather boost the archetype in other directions and then take away Orb.
Scroll Rack keeps being dissapointing. It should get cut, but I really like the design.
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Some thoughts on archetypes in my cube:
I want Bx Stax to be more of a thing. It's there and it works but it seems less defined than the other archetypes. I really liked this deck a fellow Riptider drafted:
BG stax from CubeTutor.com
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BRgu has a madness/discard subtheme that I enjoy but is not very polished at the moment.
Rakdos Madness from CubeTutor.com
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Part of the "issue" is that it's in four colours. You use U to play reanimatior, G to play value, W to move into aristocrats. I should look into Inscho's cube a bit and see how he defines it. Note that this is not a bad thing, it means the cards are very versatile and there's more variety in drafting and deckbuilding, I would just like to make it easier to play and less likely to end in a pile of overcosted cards.
GR Monsters needs helps. The pair is working well in control, but it's not doing as well when it comes to midrange. Here's an example. It doesn't look bad, but it doesn't feel right to me:
Gruul Monsters from CubeTutor.com
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UWR Spells is the kind of deck that just absorbs everything in its path. It's versatile and not difficult to build.
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Random cuts or potential cuts:
These cards are fine. However, they are the kinds of cards you end up cutting or don't really care about. Skirge, for example, becomes much less interesting with the increased number of UW flyers. The two exceptions are Zuran Orb, which is a balance cut, and Meloku, which is strong but not really necessary and less interesting than Sharding Sphinx or other control finishers.
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Lastly, I think my archetypes suffer from a lack of non-blue card advantage. Green has some and can deal with it, but I often see matches slowing down into topdecking. This is one of the drawbacks of not having planeswalkers, since it's how WotC has given White and Red card advantage.
Some thoughts:
Looking at your Gruul midrange deck, I feel it's missing out on some beefy/high impact 3 drops.
Finks and Tracker are great, but that isn't much and looking at your list, the pickings are slim in GR. I'd love to see something hard hitting like Goblin Rabblemaster/Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin/Legion Warboss or something more value oriented like Seasoned Pyromancer which works very well in your discard archetype (more on that later).
Also, cards like Keldon Marauders don't really fit in there. You don't care about doing quick damage at the cost of a card. You want to build an advantage with value creatures. Something like Dismissive Pyromancer or Dire Fleet Daredevil that can attack/block on turn 2 if needed, but give you filtering/card advantage later on.
At the same time Wall of Blossoms seems off in a deck with Pelt Collector, Experiment One, Bloodbraid Elf. Add a 2CC mana dork instead and already the deck looks better. I see that your list a bunch so that's just how the draft goes sometimes.
Regarding the BR madness deck, I think it looks pretty good except for a few points:
You don't have any zombies for the Gravecrawlers (and your list only has 8 or so). Bloodsoaked Champion would look better here and as a double IMO.
You have the payoffs (madness, delve, flashback and recursive cards) but not many of the enablers (only see Bloodrage Brawler, Collective Brutality, Oona's Prowler and Smallpox). I think finding a few good enablers would go a long way. Actually, I would totally maindeck the Cryptbreaker for zombies and discard outlet for example as well as the Firestorm for potential blowouts.
Final point is if Squee, Goblin Nabob doesn't fit into this deck, where does he fit?
I do like the cuts you offer, they seem solid!
Looking at your Gruul midrange deck, I feel it's missing out on some beefy/high impact 3 drops.
Finks and Tracker are great, but that isn't much and looking at your list, the pickings are slim in GR. I'd love to see something hard hitting like Goblin Rabblemaster/Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin/Legion Warboss or something more value oriented like Seasoned Pyromancer which works very well in your discard archetype (more on that later).
Also, cards like Keldon Marauders don't really fit in there. You don't care about doing quick damage at the cost of a card. You want to build an advantage with value creatures. Something like Dismissive Pyromancer or Dire Fleet Daredevil that can attack/block on turn 2 if needed, but give you filtering/card advantage later on.
At the same time Wall of Blossoms seems off in a deck with Pelt Collector, Experiment One, Bloodbraid Elf. Add a 2CC mana dork instead and already the deck looks better. I see that your list a bunch so that's just how the draft goes sometimes.
Regarding the BR madness deck, I think it looks pretty good except for a few points:
You don't have any zombies for the Gravecrawlers (and your list only has 8 or so). Bloodsoaked Champion would look better here and as a double IMO.
You have the payoffs (madness, delve, flashback and recursive cards) but not many of the enablers (only see Bloodrage Brawler, Collective Brutality, Oona's Prowler and Smallpox). I think finding a few good enablers would go a long way. Actually, I would totally maindeck the Cryptbreaker for zombies and discard outlet for example as well as the Firestorm for potential blowouts.
Final point is if Squee, Goblin Nabob doesn't fit into this deck, where does he fit?
I do like the cuts you offer, they seem solid!
Thanks for the thoughts Nanonox!
Now that you mention it, it does seem totally true. I actually looked into Legion Warboss and the like, but they looked kind of snowbally so I dismiss them . Now that I've played with and against it in Standard and saw how they work, I think it's fine to add them back in. I'm also less concerned with giving Aristocrats free tokens to sacrifice than I used to.
I admit my choice of creatures isn't the best. I don't know if most of my 2cc creatures are something a GR deck would be interested in. I actually ran Dismissive Pyromancer but ended up cutting it. I probably didn't evaluate (or play!) the card correctly.
Regarding Gravecrawler, I used to run more zombies but it seems I made cuts and they left the list. I might double (or triple) on Bloodsoaked Champion. It's also a human so that's also a benefit.
I'm not sure of what enablers to run. It took me a while to realize that creature-based decks won't run more than one, perhaps two, ideally zero "discard to draw" spells. I should try to add more creatures that enable discarding. I'm at a loss so if you guys can make any suggestions I'm all ears.
Squee is great in some decks, most notably Survival of the Fittest, but I wonder if the slot isn't better spent elsewhere. He's very iconic, though, so I hope he can find a home.
Thanks!
Now that you mention it, it does seem totally true. I actually looked into Legion Warboss and the like, but they looked kind of snowbally so I dismiss them . Now that I've played with and against it in Standard and saw how they work, I think it's fine to add them back in. I'm also less concerned with giving Aristocrats free tokens to sacrifice than I used to.
I admit my choice of creatures isn't the best. I don't know if most of my 2cc creatures are something a GR deck would be interested in. I actually ran Dismissive Pyromancer but ended up cutting it. I probably didn't evaluate (or play!) the card correctly.
Regarding Gravecrawler, I used to run more zombies but it seems I made cuts and they left the list. I might double (or triple) on Bloodsoaked Champion. It's also a human so that's also a benefit.
I'm not sure of what enablers to run. It took me a while to realize that creature-based decks won't run more than one, perhaps two, ideally zero "discard to draw" spells. I should try to add more creatures that enable discarding. I'm at a loss so if you guys can make any suggestions I'm all ears.
Squee is great in some decks, most notably Survival of the Fittest, but I wonder if the slot isn't better spent elsewhere. He's very iconic, though, so I hope he can find a home.
Thanks!
All right, so I'm taking Nanonox' advice to heart and making some changes.
OUT
Quicksmith Rebel has been dissapointing. He's solid, but he has too much competition to shine. First, if you are into artifacts there's a big chance you are into Goblin Welder or a cheaper, more aggro-based plan. Second, he's a 4-drop and there are often more expensive cards you want to run than you can actually run. In other words, you might have 5 slots for cards that cost 4 or more. Is Quicksmith Rebel going to be one of those cards? I'm checking my decklists and he's not in any of them.
I mean, it doesn't make sense as an inclusion. The R archetypes in my cube are:
Spells Matter
Lands
Aggro
Artifacts
Aristocrats
Wildfire
Gruul Midrange
Discard matters
Quicksmith fits in one of them and not very well so out it goes. By the way, have you seen that list? 8 DIFFERENT ARCHETYPES IN RED! How awesome is that?
Burning Tree Emissary is neat. But the double-cost is annoying for red decks and I don't feel it's much better than any of the cards that could go on that slot.
Lightning Mauler is nice, fun and strong but I'm not sure it's the best choice when I can run other "haste" effects that are broader in their application, like Hammer of Purphoros and Lightning Greaves.
IN
I used to run Dismissive Pyromancer and I'm going to fllow Nanonox' advice and add him back in. He's never impressive but it's true he fits everywhere and tends to make the list.
Gobling Rabblemaster is more powerful than Legion Warboss and lacks a keyword mechanic so he's my choice. He should work well in all decks. If I find him too strong, I'll replace him by Warboss.
I'm going to try triple Bloodsoaked Champion as my recurring black guy of choice.
Drake Haven is a test, seems a fun card to try out.
Magus of the Wheel replaces Anje's Raveger. They are both cards that move in the same space and Magus seems to make it in more decks. It is worse for pure aggro, though!
Gotta go now, I'll work more this night!
The R part of spells has been suffering from not having enough payoffs. The two choices are Monastery Swiftspear and Mizzium Tank. While I like the latter much more and it is an artifact it seems Monastery is a more versatile card. What do you think?
OUT
Quicksmith Rebel has been dissapointing. He's solid, but he has too much competition to shine. First, if you are into artifacts there's a big chance you are into Goblin Welder or a cheaper, more aggro-based plan. Second, he's a 4-drop and there are often more expensive cards you want to run than you can actually run. In other words, you might have 5 slots for cards that cost 4 or more. Is Quicksmith Rebel going to be one of those cards? I'm checking my decklists and he's not in any of them.
I mean, it doesn't make sense as an inclusion. The R archetypes in my cube are:
Spells Matter
Lands
Aggro
Artifacts
Aristocrats
Wildfire
Gruul Midrange
Discard matters
Quicksmith fits in one of them and not very well so out it goes. By the way, have you seen that list? 8 DIFFERENT ARCHETYPES IN RED! How awesome is that?
Burning Tree Emissary is neat. But the double-cost is annoying for red decks and I don't feel it's much better than any of the cards that could go on that slot.
Lightning Mauler is nice, fun and strong but I'm not sure it's the best choice when I can run other "haste" effects that are broader in their application, like Hammer of Purphoros and Lightning Greaves.
IN
I used to run Dismissive Pyromancer and I'm going to fllow Nanonox' advice and add him back in. He's never impressive but it's true he fits everywhere and tends to make the list.
Gobling Rabblemaster is more powerful than Legion Warboss and lacks a keyword mechanic so he's my choice. He should work well in all decks. If I find him too strong, I'll replace him by Warboss.
I'm going to try triple Bloodsoaked Champion as my recurring black guy of choice.
Drake Haven is a test, seems a fun card to try out.
Magus of the Wheel replaces Anje's Raveger. They are both cards that move in the same space and Magus seems to make it in more decks. It is worse for pure aggro, though!
Gotta go now, I'll work more this night!
The R part of spells has been suffering from not having enough payoffs. The two choices are Monastery Swiftspear and Mizzium Tank. While I like the latter much more and it is an artifact it seems Monastery is a more versatile card. What do you think?
Let's keep working!
I've been thinking and comparing about my cube with other cubes and I've come to the conclusion it needs some streamlining. It's not bad, but it does not flow as smoothly as I had hoped. While I'm not sure of the exact reasons, I can picture a couple:
- Too many build-arounds and associate support cards
- Narrow or overly technical archetypes
- Overly stacked colour combinations, archetypes or ideas.
Here's an example. I have 2x Pod, 2x Life from the Loam, Survival and Fauna, Oath of Druids, All Sun's Dawn, Overrun, Primal Command, Moment's Peace, Gaea's Blessing, Collected Company, Ramunap Excavator and Genesis in green. That's 15 cards out of 54, about 25%. That's a very high number of support cards. More importantly, that's a very high number of cards that cancel each other out. If you have Oath, you don't want Overrun. If you have Pod, you don't want Ramunap Excavator and so on.
--
I'm not sure if my colour pairings are right. I'm beginning to think the Lands colours should be GRW and Artifacts should be UBR. The reason is that White does not contribute much to artifacts beyond some minor synergies (artifact tokens, Toolcraft Exemplar, etc.) and support while it gives wrath effects and wide removal to an archetype that welcomes them. It also seems to me white payoffs are better, with the exception of Trade Routes.
On that same line I should decide if I want artifacts to be a wider theme in my cube or not. I should also consider how much space discard or graveyard themes should take. Do I really want to go all-in? Or do I want to scale back a bit and limit it to specific archetypes?
--
I wonder if I'm a bit obsessessed with curving out. All my decks are very heavy on the 2s, like a normal draft environment. I'm not sure if that's actually the right play in cube given the speed of the format.
Anyways, here are two cards I should probably include:
I've been thinking and comparing about my cube with other cubes and I've come to the conclusion it needs some streamlining. It's not bad, but it does not flow as smoothly as I had hoped. While I'm not sure of the exact reasons, I can picture a couple:
- Too many build-arounds and associate support cards
- Narrow or overly technical archetypes
- Overly stacked colour combinations, archetypes or ideas.
Here's an example. I have 2x Pod, 2x Life from the Loam, Survival and Fauna, Oath of Druids, All Sun's Dawn, Overrun, Primal Command, Moment's Peace, Gaea's Blessing, Collected Company, Ramunap Excavator and Genesis in green. That's 15 cards out of 54, about 25%. That's a very high number of support cards. More importantly, that's a very high number of cards that cancel each other out. If you have Oath, you don't want Overrun. If you have Pod, you don't want Ramunap Excavator and so on.
--
I'm not sure if my colour pairings are right. I'm beginning to think the Lands colours should be GRW and Artifacts should be UBR. The reason is that White does not contribute much to artifacts beyond some minor synergies (artifact tokens, Toolcraft Exemplar, etc.) and support while it gives wrath effects and wide removal to an archetype that welcomes them. It also seems to me white payoffs are better, with the exception of Trade Routes.
On that same line I should decide if I want artifacts to be a wider theme in my cube or not. I should also consider how much space discard or graveyard themes should take. Do I really want to go all-in? Or do I want to scale back a bit and limit it to specific archetypes?
--
I wonder if I'm a bit obsessessed with curving out. All my decks are very heavy on the 2s, like a normal draft environment. I'm not sure if that's actually the right play in cube given the speed of the format.
Anyways, here are two cards I should probably include:
It's time for MASSIVE TWEAKS
OUT
Collected Company and All Suns' Dawn seem two of the easiest cuts as far as green support goes. The latter is kind of greedy and the former is nice, but not needed for any deck to function.
Countless Gears Renegade is cute, but low-power. It's a card you'll run if you have some synergy but it's never great and a poor pick without it. I'm never short on playables so I think this is a good cut.
Blue is no longer going to be the third colour of the Lands archetype so I take out Trade Routes. Love the card, though, it's a lovely design.
REPLACEMENTS
->
I didn't want to run both Wall of Omens and Wall of Blossoms so I thought about replacing the latter with Carven caryatid. It's a strong card that I think will be helpful to green-based control. For me it's also a very clean, very iconic design. Back in the day, it saw play in a wide range of decks, like The Rock. Good times.
->
->
Two pieces of artifact support are replaced for lands support. One of my goals with Lands as an archetype is to support the old "Aggro-Loam" archetype. It should make "lands" a much broader, more fun deck to build.
->
Unexpectedly Absent has two advantages. The first is that it's broader and can be played in more decks. The second is that it's an instant and hence fits UWR spells.
->
Discarding two cards seems like a big ask, so I'm going to replace Cathartic Reunion for Thrill of Possibility.
->
Staff of Nin is a touch too expensive. I want to give non-blue control decks a source of repeated card advantage. I considered cards like Grafted Skullcap and Bottled Cloister but they didn't quite fit. Outpost Siege is the direction I want to go and most of these control decks are going to have red in them so in it goes. It also has sacrifice synergy, which is nice.
IN
Knight of the White Orchid is the kind of card that you never think about drafting yet will almost always make the main deck. It's a 2/2 First Strike that helps you if you go second. It provides card advantage. It's good in aggro and good in control. It's also a human. It also points towards lands in white, though it's not any better in that archetype than it is in any other.
Mirror Entity is a versatile mass pumper, which I think it s a good direction to take WR and GR in.
Clan Defiance is welcomed by aggro as reach and in control as a big fireball.
Weaponcraft Enthusiast and Marionette Master represented the shifr from UWR Artifacts to UBR Artifacts.
Land Tax is getting a second chance. I don't like how it sometimes draws you 9 lands just because you had it in your opening hand.
Elvish Reclaimer supports aggro, lands and discard. It's an obvious addition
Strangleroot Geist is more green-based aggro, with some interesting synergies around sacrifice.
Deep Analaysis goes back in because blue needs a discard-matters card and some more draw. DA does both.
Urza is the next artifact-support payoff I'm testing.
OUT
Collected Company and All Suns' Dawn seem two of the easiest cuts as far as green support goes. The latter is kind of greedy and the former is nice, but not needed for any deck to function.
Countless Gears Renegade is cute, but low-power. It's a card you'll run if you have some synergy but it's never great and a poor pick without it. I'm never short on playables so I think this is a good cut.
Blue is no longer going to be the third colour of the Lands archetype so I take out Trade Routes. Love the card, though, it's a lovely design.
REPLACEMENTS
-> I didn't want to run both Wall of Omens and Wall of Blossoms so I thought about replacing the latter with Carven caryatid. It's a strong card that I think will be helpful to green-based control. For me it's also a very clean, very iconic design. Back in the day, it saw play in a wide range of decks, like The Rock. Good times.
-> -> Two pieces of artifact support are replaced for lands support. One of my goals with Lands as an archetype is to support the old "Aggro-Loam" archetype. It should make "lands" a much broader, more fun deck to build.
-> Unexpectedly Absent has two advantages. The first is that it's broader and can be played in more decks. The second is that it's an instant and hence fits UWR spells.
-> Discarding two cards seems like a big ask, so I'm going to replace Cathartic Reunion for Thrill of Possibility.
-> Staff of Nin is a touch too expensive. I want to give non-blue control decks a source of repeated card advantage. I considered cards like Grafted Skullcap and Bottled Cloister but they didn't quite fit. Outpost Siege is the direction I want to go and most of these control decks are going to have red in them so in it goes. It also has sacrifice synergy, which is nice.
IN
Knight of the White Orchid is the kind of card that you never think about drafting yet will almost always make the main deck. It's a 2/2 First Strike that helps you if you go second. It provides card advantage. It's good in aggro and good in control. It's also a human. It also points towards lands in white, though it's not any better in that archetype than it is in any other.
Mirror Entity is a versatile mass pumper, which I think it s a good direction to take WR and GR in.
Clan Defiance is welcomed by aggro as reach and in control as a big fireball.
Weaponcraft Enthusiast and Marionette Master represented the shifr from UWR Artifacts to UBR Artifacts.
Land Tax is getting a second chance. I don't like how it sometimes draws you 9 lands just because you had it in your opening hand.
Elvish Reclaimer supports aggro, lands and discard. It's an obvious addition
Strangleroot Geist is more green-based aggro, with some interesting synergies around sacrifice.
Deep Analaysis goes back in because blue needs a discard-matters card and some more draw. DA does both.
Urza is the next artifact-support payoff I'm testing.
What's worse than having to work? Having to work for free. Woo, interships! Forunately, I could take some cube notes on the train back home.
Like I mentioned, I've decided to run 4 guild cards and see how things work out. One of the reasons is that 3 felt a bit short. With 4 cards I can give the pairing two "control" cards and two "aggro" ones. Which is not at all a strict definition.
Here's what I'm sure about so far:
GRUUL
These are all fun, versatile cards. I don't know why it took me so long to consider Kird Ape. What really made me think about it is reading that someone was trying to keep the cost of guild cards down. And it made me think, because it's true that guild cards are on the expensive side so keeping costs down seems a good idea.
SIMIC
I'm not sure Hydroid Krasis is the right card, but at 6 mana it's a 4/4 flyer that draws two cards. It doesn't seem bad. I might run something else in its place if it doesn't work well.
AZORIUS
I decided to run Migratory Route instead of Reflector Mage. Reflector is nice and he's a blink target but I would rather run Venser and Man O'War in blue. It's also a spell and hence more likely to be playable in UW.
ORZHOV
I've been thinking how I could extend WB to control. All the hatebear archetypes work wonderfully but control just doesn't come together. Angel of Despair can be reanimated and is a very good control finisher on its own, but it's a small piece in the overall scheme of things. Then I thought. What if I give WB a wrath effect? Nobody is going to hate-draft WB so it might work. I just fear the mana cost is too silly to work.
SELESNYA
Selesnya should support both wide-creatures and lands. I think this is a good set. A part of me wants to run Renegade Railer instead of Voice of Resurgence, but I can see the latter being much better with Pod and other similar arcehtypes.
What I'm not sure about:
BOROS
I think I'm going to run Figure of Destiny as a gold card. This is not really true, but it's what Boros wants and it's not like their gold section is great. The card I'm less sure about is Rally the Peasants. Boros Reckoner is also a card I'm sure I'm underevaluating but which I'm not sure about. I would run it in WR control decks, though.
IZZET
Let's be honest, I think this is just Electrolyze and friends. Which isn't bad, but I'm going to see if I can improve on.
DIMIR
I want to run UB Artifacts. This means Baleful Strix and, for most, it also means Tezzeret. But I don't run planeswalkers and there are not many other cards that could fill the slot. Sphinx Summoner looks way too expensive for what it is so I'm not sold. I'm tempted to run a lesser Tezzeret in its place and run a couple planeswalkers but I just dislike the effect they have in the game, regardless of power level.
The other side of UB is discard/reanimator/graveyard. Psychatog is an obvious inclusion, but I'm not sure about the other slot.I'm currently running nephalia Drownyard, which is a lot of fun, but I think it's best as a win condition not as a self-mill tool.
RAKDOS
I'm currently running some good cards, but they are hazapardly put together. Judith is a must. She's fun, versatile and covers all aggressive bases. However, I'm not so sure about the other cards. I think I need to research and see if Bloodhall Priest should bring friends or leave.
GOLGARI
Golgari is one of the deepest guilds, which means I have the same problem as with Rakdos: I run good cards, but without any clear goal in mind. There's plenty to the guild to choose from and I should look into it beyond "Pernicious Deed, an effect I want in my cube or not?". Hoogak has been great. It's a very cool design, a shame it's busted in constructed.
-----------------
Running more guild cards makes my three-color section less pleasant. I'm going to keep only a handful of them. It's not like you need to run a full set, either way. So far there are two, perhaps three I like:
And, let's be honest, it's Cruel or boost. What a cool card.
Like I mentioned, I've decided to run 4 guild cards and see how things work out. One of the reasons is that 3 felt a bit short. With 4 cards I can give the pairing two "control" cards and two "aggro" ones. Which is not at all a strict definition.
Here's what I'm sure about so far:
GRUUL
These are all fun, versatile cards. I don't know why it took me so long to consider Kird Ape. What really made me think about it is reading that someone was trying to keep the cost of guild cards down. And it made me think, because it's true that guild cards are on the expensive side so keeping costs down seems a good idea.
SIMIC
I'm not sure Hydroid Krasis is the right card, but at 6 mana it's a 4/4 flyer that draws two cards. It doesn't seem bad. I might run something else in its place if it doesn't work well.
AZORIUS
I decided to run Migratory Route instead of Reflector Mage. Reflector is nice and he's a blink target but I would rather run Venser and Man O'War in blue. It's also a spell and hence more likely to be playable in UW.
ORZHOV
I've been thinking how I could extend WB to control. All the hatebear archetypes work wonderfully but control just doesn't come together. Angel of Despair can be reanimated and is a very good control finisher on its own, but it's a small piece in the overall scheme of things. Then I thought. What if I give WB a wrath effect? Nobody is going to hate-draft WB so it might work. I just fear the mana cost is too silly to work.
SELESNYA
Selesnya should support both wide-creatures and lands. I think this is a good set. A part of me wants to run Renegade Railer instead of Voice of Resurgence, but I can see the latter being much better with Pod and other similar arcehtypes.
What I'm not sure about:
BOROS
I think I'm going to run Figure of Destiny as a gold card. This is not really true, but it's what Boros wants and it's not like their gold section is great. The card I'm less sure about is Rally the Peasants. Boros Reckoner is also a card I'm sure I'm underevaluating but which I'm not sure about. I would run it in WR control decks, though.
IZZET
Let's be honest, I think this is just Electrolyze and friends. Which isn't bad, but I'm going to see if I can improve on.
DIMIR
I want to run UB Artifacts. This means Baleful Strix and, for most, it also means Tezzeret. But I don't run planeswalkers and there are not many other cards that could fill the slot. Sphinx Summoner looks way too expensive for what it is so I'm not sold. I'm tempted to run a lesser Tezzeret in its place and run a couple planeswalkers but I just dislike the effect they have in the game, regardless of power level.
The other side of UB is discard/reanimator/graveyard. Psychatog is an obvious inclusion, but I'm not sure about the other slot.I'm currently running nephalia Drownyard, which is a lot of fun, but I think it's best as a win condition not as a self-mill tool.
RAKDOS
I'm currently running some good cards, but they are hazapardly put together. Judith is a must. She's fun, versatile and covers all aggressive bases. However, I'm not so sure about the other cards. I think I need to research and see if Bloodhall Priest should bring friends or leave.
GOLGARI
Golgari is one of the deepest guilds, which means I have the same problem as with Rakdos: I run good cards, but without any clear goal in mind. There's plenty to the guild to choose from and I should look into it beyond "Pernicious Deed, an effect I want in my cube or not?". Hoogak has been great. It's a very cool design, a shame it's busted in constructed.
-----------------
Running more guild cards makes my three-color section less pleasant. I'm going to keep only a handful of them. It's not like you need to run a full set, either way. So far there are two, perhaps three I like:
And, let's be honest, it's Cruel or boost. What a cool card.
Today I had a perfect change to roll out my cube with a friend but I couldn't because it doesn't exist in reality. We played Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective, so it was still great but I wanted to give the cube a whirl.
Anyways, small tweaks and changes:
OUT
Elvish Reclaimer just didn't seem to fit the archetypes I wanted. The synergy is there, but not as a one-drop.
Vessel worked, but I think I had one slot too many. So far I haven't missed it.
Masticore. I wanted to run this card, but new creature designs have been harsh to it. Quite simply, the pinging is no longer as relevant and it ended up being too cute or too much of a sideboard card against decks with small creatures. I also haven't found it to be the right shell for discarding. It works well in Welder, though. That said, I know I'm not playing it correctly.
Demonic Pact. I really like this card but, well, I'm not sure if people will actually run it. WB Stax has been drafted a bunch by you guys and it hasn't made the cut. For example:
Demonic Pact was on the sideboard. If it didn't make it here, where would it? And it's not like the "hatebears" family of archetypes needs more support. I can dedicate that slot to control and broader the colour pair.
Obsessive Search is neat, but I'm not sure it does enough. I'm probably wrong, but I'm always a bit iffy on running it.
The three colour cards have been removed to accomodate a larger number of guild cards.
Some changes for variety:
---->
->
(It's not enough for it to be a Battleforged Axe, no. It's BATTLE-AXE. Maximalism strikes again)
-----------
I wasn't too interested in the Adventure cards at first. They are pretty much pushed goodstuff spells. However, they haven't proven as decisive as I thought they would be in Standard and I like some of their play patterns. For starters, they make good bounce and value targets. They also support archetypes I like, such as blue-based tempo. Here's what I'm considering:
For starters I'm going to try replace Jhesisan Thief with Brazen Borrower. The former is just mediocre. If you have a real "spells matter" deck, she's outclassed by an incredible margin. And if you don't, she won't be able to push through.
----------
I'm thinking of supporting Aggro Loam a bit better. This brings my mind back to Countryside Crusher but I'm generally not that hot on my Red 3s.
There's some good stuff here, but I don't get much of a feeling of focus when seeing that list. For example, Fire Imp is a clear blink target. However, none of the other 3s are. Similarly, Squee isn't really a creature and Alesha is not a real "red" card.
Anyways, small tweaks and changes:
OUT
Elvish Reclaimer just didn't seem to fit the archetypes I wanted. The synergy is there, but not as a one-drop.
Vessel worked, but I think I had one slot too many. So far I haven't missed it.
Masticore. I wanted to run this card, but new creature designs have been harsh to it. Quite simply, the pinging is no longer as relevant and it ended up being too cute or too much of a sideboard card against decks with small creatures. I also haven't found it to be the right shell for discarding. It works well in Welder, though. That said, I know I'm not playing it correctly.
Demonic Pact. I really like this card but, well, I'm not sure if people will actually run it. WB Stax has been drafted a bunch by you guys and it hasn't made the cut. For example:
WB Token Stax from CubeTutor.com
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Demonic Pact was on the sideboard. If it didn't make it here, where would it? And it's not like the "hatebears" family of archetypes needs more support. I can dedicate that slot to control and broader the colour pair.
Obsessive Search is neat, but I'm not sure it does enough. I'm probably wrong, but I'm always a bit iffy on running it.
The three colour cards have been removed to accomodate a larger number of guild cards.
Some changes for variety:
----> -> (It's not enough for it to be a Battleforged Axe, no. It's BATTLE-AXE. Maximalism strikes again)
-----------
I wasn't too interested in the Adventure cards at first. They are pretty much pushed goodstuff spells. However, they haven't proven as decisive as I thought they would be in Standard and I like some of their play patterns. For starters, they make good bounce and value targets. They also support archetypes I like, such as blue-based tempo. Here's what I'm considering:
For starters I'm going to try replace Jhesisan Thief with Brazen Borrower. The former is just mediocre. If you have a real "spells matter" deck, she's outclassed by an incredible margin. And if you don't, she won't be able to push through.
----------
I'm thinking of supporting Aggro Loam a bit better. This brings my mind back to Countryside Crusher but I'm generally not that hot on my Red 3s.
There's some good stuff here, but I don't get much of a feeling of focus when seeing that list. For example, Fire Imp is a clear blink target. However, none of the other 3s are. Similarly, Squee isn't really a creature and Alesha is not a real "red" card.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Demonic Pact. I really like this card but, well, I'm not sure if people will actually run it. WB Stax has been drafted a bunch by you guys and it hasn't made the cut. For example:
WB Token Stax from CubeTutor.com
Demonic Pact was on the sideboard. If it didn't make it here, where would it? And it's not like the "hatebears" family of archetypes needs more support. I can dedicate that slot to control and broader the colour pair.
This is not a good Demonic Pact deck. There's only two ways to get rid of it. In my experience you want at least 4, maybe 3 if you've got a lot of ways to dig for answers. Things like Kor Skyfisher, Repeal, and Venser, Shaper Savant are great, because they are also good in other decks. If you want Demonic Pact to be playable, you've got to be very conscious of the flexibility of your answers. Blue runs some flexible bounce options in your cube, but there's also Waterfront Bouncer, Man-o'-War and Brazen Borrower, which can't rebuy Demonic Pact. White has some cool options as well, with Kor Skyfisher and Flickerwisp being the standouts. I think it's absolutely possible to build a good Demonic Pact deck, but people need to prioritize the right removal or it will be too much of a liability.
Oh it's not. What I meant to say is: If it doesn't make it in this kind of hatebear decks, is it really worth the space?
Consider the following. Imagine instead of Charming Prince we had Kor Skyfisher for a total of four removal options (Collective Defiance, Kor Skyfisher, Smokestack, Braids). Would you run it then? Or would you consider it and then draft another card or build your deck slighty differently? If you had five, I think you'll run it for sure but that's a lot to ask.
And that's in the best colour pariring for it! Because, like you said, most of my options in blue can't bounce an enchantment. You have Venser, but Repeal is awfully expensive.
I really like the card and think it's a fantastic design but I'm not sure it's a card I should play given what it takes to use it and how it would fit in an already well-supported archetype.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Braids can't actually sacrifice enchantments, so Kor Skyfisher would only take you up to three. Pact is definitely a strong enough effect though! It has seen play several times in my cube, though it doesn't always make the deck. Like I said, you really do want to have a few options to bounce/get rid of it, and that doesn't always happen, especially if you pick up Pact late. That said, look at what this card does for you over a few turns!
That's
mana worth of value for the bargain price of . A discount of ! Okay, okay, so One with Death isn't a spell you want to cast, but you really do get 10 mana worth of effects for the price of 4. Definitely a card worth playing and drafting around in my experience!