Chris Taylor
Contributor
How's your removal? We talking doom blade or unholy hunger?
General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Murmuring Mystic all the way. Harder to remove and a bigger roadblock for aggro that's still relevant vs smaller midrange threats. Smaller threats more consistently > bigger threats with a bullseye on the producer. Definitely agree that it depends on overall power level and removal power level, though; there's a point where neither is appropriate.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
This deck won my cube's second draft last Sunday.
Both the Murmuring Mystic and the Pyromancer's Assault overperformed. I think Mystic is better in a deck like this than Talrand, because it holds the fort while you are slowly outvalueing your opponent.
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Both the Murmuring Mystic and the Pyromancer's Assault overperformed. I think Mystic is better in a deck like this than Talrand, because it holds the fort while you are slowly outvalueing your opponent.
Mystic all the way. A 1/5 is such a weird body that gums up the board. It's actually kind of obnoxious to run into when you're trying to turn the corner and apply pressure. Being able to just shrug off 4/4s swinging in is incredible. Talrand dies to everything and will be irrelevant in combat like 90% of the time after he's on the field, and like RVB mentioned the bigger drakes make him a juicier target to deal with. One of the biggest mistakes people would make early in GRN was letting Mystic stick on the board. It was only a matter of time until they got beaten to death by a bunch of birds.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Also, the art on both the Mystic and the bird tokens is incredible! 
I have to say, I am Team Talrand. But I might be biased since I use old Wind Drakes as tokens. Still, almost all non red removal spells I'm running kill both equally easy, and Talrand is also better against pacifism effects. And makes so much more pressure. When you play him alongside a small spell midgame and then your opponent untaps and kills him, you still got a great deal out of it. You can't say that for Mystic. Another big point is the color they're in. In my cube, blue has the fewest creatures but a pretty good counter suite. That means, that a creature like that, which can win on it's own, is relatively easy to protect. And every counterspell grants you another drake. Just two or even one drake left behind can close out a game. One bird? Far less likely.
Laz
Developer
I just picked up a Mystic, though I still need to figure out a cut for it (I don't want to cut a tempo card for it...) - but it is probably notable that I am not considering Talrand at all for the slot. I am currently looking to make blocking a little more effective, and Mystic has a very relevant body for that, where Talrand's 2/2 body is basically immaterial, since you aren't going to be blocking with him, and you aren't offering up the trade, unlike say, Young Pyromancer, where because of his low CMC, you are often in a position where you can attack with him on an empty board.
My completely untested view is that too much of Talrand's value is tied up in the first Drake, which means you will probably want to hold him until you can immediately make a 2/2. The 1/5 body on Mystic makes him feel safer to play on turn 4, where he can get value simply by blocking.
That said, a month from now I might be posting 'Looked great, but too low-impact'.
My completely untested view is that too much of Talrand's value is tied up in the first Drake, which means you will probably want to hold him until you can immediately make a 2/2. The 1/5 body on Mystic makes him feel safer to play on turn 4, where he can get value simply by blocking.
That said, a month from now I might be posting 'Looked great, but too low-impact'.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Furyblade seems better at pushing damage through? 4 power is a lot for 2 mana!
Yeah, I agree with Onderzeeboot. Furyblade seems like a fun card to play in red green madness too, since it really receives pump spells well.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
There's also burning-fist minotaur. Better on its own, but not as great a madness outlet since you have to pay for discard cards
The minotaur is already in this slot alongside Bloodrage Brawler and Battlefield Scavenger
I'll go with Furyblade then, thanks guys!
I'll go with Furyblade then, thanks guys!
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
vs So... My problem is, Skyfisher is bonkers with Oketra's Monument, but the Angel is an underwhelming card period. What do I do?
Oketra's Monument is pretty bonkers even without a Skyfisher to combo out with, in my experience. I guess it's containable if your format has enough boardwipes/artifact removal, but it's a bit oppressive over here, to the point where I'm adding in more artifact removal & token hosers next patch. I think it's fine to allow it as a combo interaction, but only if you have enough to police it; it's not really a very interesting combo to go off with imho, so I wouldn't keep it on novelty alone.
I never thought I would have to ask the question, but for those who've played with these cards so far, which one has the most impact?
-Vs.-
One's slower but spits outs more dudes, while the other has the more immediate impact but less powerful (and is a weaker Goblin Rabblemaster in my opinion, which I am already running).
Two Bonus Questions:
1.) I'm going to rework my Izzet section now that I got motivation to finally finish my cube. I've noticed from some other cube lists people are running Niv-Mizzet, Parun and Crackling Drake. I've played both in limited and are a blast to play, however, anyone have experience with them in a cube environment? Alot of the inital complaint was the restrictive mana costs, but both seem so potent.
2.) Is there a character limit on this forum?
-Vs.-One's slower but spits outs more dudes, while the other has the more immediate impact but less powerful (and is a weaker Goblin Rabblemaster in my opinion, which I am already running).
Two Bonus Questions:
1.) I'm going to rework my Izzet section now that I got motivation to finally finish my cube. I've noticed from some other cube lists people are running Niv-Mizzet, Parun and Crackling Drake. I've played both in limited and are a blast to play, however, anyone have experience with them in a cube environment? Alot of the inital complaint was the restrictive mana costs, but both seem so potent.
2.) Is there a character limit on this forum?
Nope! Post away!
I'd go with Garrison ahead of Warboss, especially if you're playing Champion of the Parish and Thalia's Lieutenant in your list. You get more triggers because the tokens are also human, Garrison plays well with any go-wide strategies you have with anthems or something like Purphoros, God of the Forge, and a 2/3 can attack more comfortably into blockers than a 2/2. I don't know if Warboss is likely to survive past a single combat step without some removal backing it up to be honest.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Also a consideration: Garrison can meld with a land. However:
I've run both as a squadron pick, and at one point our red drafter had both in play, with enough mana, and it was right to play hell rider instead. That's a pretty big knock.
I've run both as a squadron pick, and at one point our red drafter had both in play, with enough mana, and it was right to play hell rider instead. That's a pretty big knock.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Hell rider is much closer to the average power level of my cube than hanwier battlements
Cool, thanks for the response everyone. I'll likely leave Garrison for now, but I may switch out for Warboss if the need arises...
Now regarding Hellrider, he's probably going to stay only for my personal love for the card in addition to... well,... accidentally creating a cube environment that is a bit more powerful than average. If I had stumbled across this forum first before I started making my cube a while back, then things may not have spiraled out of control. But now I'm committed, and I'll lie in the near-broken bed I've made (plus, I'm not opposed to cutting it after a few runs if red/tokens archetype proves too strong, which I think it is).
EDIT: sigh, is there a reason you're against Hellrider? Was it too powerful overall for your environment I'm guessing?
Now regarding Hellrider, he's probably going to stay only for my personal love for the card in addition to... well,... accidentally creating a cube environment that is a bit more powerful than average. If I had stumbled across this forum first before I started making my cube a while back, then things may not have spiraled out of control. But now I'm committed, and I'll lie in the near-broken bed I've made (plus, I'm not opposed to cutting it after a few runs if red/tokens archetype proves too strong, which I think it is).
EDIT: sigh, is there a reason you're against Hellrider? Was it too powerful overall for your environment I'm guessing?
Good to know. With that in mind, I will try again to post my cube in the Blog section this weekend - hopefully without any issues again. Nothing worse than typing out everything, my browser bugging out then losing out a night's-worth of thoughts and ideas. That was demoralizing...
I think the answer is neither, tbh. Goblin Rabblemaster is the one true king, and I think you generally only want one of this effect.