General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
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Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
That much I figured out, that's why I'm asking 
I guess Arguel's Blood Fast can lead to more interesting games. Phyrexian Arena is very good, but also pretty... generic.
I guess Arguel's Blood Fast can lead to more interesting games. Phyrexian Arena is very good, but also pretty... generic.
What is/are the reason/reasonss underworld connections not the card you're looking for? It's in between the two in terms of cost and less generic than arena.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I originally settled on Arena over Connections when I first added the effect. I like that you can't shut off Arena, so sometimes you will be forced to use your own removal on it, or die if you can't. Connection might still be right over it, because it offers more decision points, but the question is not which one of these two options I should pick, but rather if Arguel's Blood Fast's mini game and backside make it interesting enough to run over either of them.
It depends. I find arena really strong, even though it can kill yourself. The suicide by arena happens as often as you die by mana burn, i.e., rarely. Underworld is most of the times an expensive arena. Arguel can draw a lot of cards in one turn and is even more expensive than underworld. 2 mana and 2 life is steep and is the backside really that strong since combat damage is not on the stack anymore?
If your cube can handle arena then go for it, if it is too strong go down, if it is still to strong go to arguel.
If your cube can handle arena then go for it, if it is too strong go down, if it is still to strong go to arguel.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Both players with a Serendib Efreet in play each at one life happened in one of my drafts back when
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
What themes are you supporting?what themes are you supporting?
I have one too:
Quasi is good in discard matters, Part is better in blue based flash decks. Do you expect this slot to end up in decks that get to seven mana? If they don't, Part might as well not have flashback.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I'm having a hard time choosing between these, but I'm guessing the front side of Djeru's Renunciation is by far the most useful effect in the same decks you want to play the aggressive RW cycling cards from Ikoria in. On the other hand, if all you're looking for is a card to cycle away cheaply, the Vantasaur is the best one by a mile because cycling forThere can be only one winner:
>> cycling for . Either way, I don't think the flyer is going to win this fight.
If any of your cycling decks are more midrange-y, I would go with Vantasaur. None of these cards are astoundingly strong. So, for the same reason that artifacts need to be weaker than the average colored card, flexibility is most important when deciding between these three. Vantasuar in some ways is a colorless card. UB decks running cards like Drake Haven and Faith of the Devoted like this card. And, so long as a 3/6 vigilance creature is significantly better than the average creature in your cube, this will go into ramp, reanimator, and cheat decks. It might even make the cut in an aggressive white cycling deck, depending on the number of payoffs. But Djeru's Renunciation has few homes outside of white aggro, and in a white aggro deck without cycling payoffs, it doesn't look appealing next to Shelter.
Hmm, the cycling decks are probably going to be more midrange-y or even control like. They are also supposed to be white-centered, so maybe that makes the colored cycling costs less worse? My white themes are the following:
Wx Cycling
WU Blink
WB Lifegain Aggro
RW GoWide Aggro
GW Token Midrange
What id I'd add a fourth card into the competition witz Drannith Healer?
Wx Cycling
WU Blink
WB Lifegain Aggro
RW GoWide Aggro
GW Token Midrange
What id I'd add a fourth card into the competition witz Drannith Healer?
what themes are you supporting?
I have one too:
I like the card advantage and the instant speed especially more, so Counterpart for me. The blowout potential is huge and makes a drafter dream, yet the card will play solid and fair most of the time.
Of those four, I think I'm only running Healer. 2/2 for 2 is plenty respectable in my format and I suspect it is in yours, as well.
I'm running quasi because flash is too strong in my format and I prefer to enable a faster second use that doesn't plus, but I'm low power. I think Onder was on point for this one.
I'm running quasi because flash is too strong in my format and I prefer to enable a faster second use that doesn't plus, but I'm low power. I think Onder was on point for this one.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
There can be only one winner:
I'd err away from vanataur since non-white drafters will snipe it actually. I'd probably run shepherd in the dark, but if you run prowess or something like that Djeru's would be nice. Both are good and situational, just depends which one you feel people might need more: a 6 drop or a situational tap spell
There can be only one winner:
This also enables heroic and works in both aggro + control.
A weird comparison to be sure, but I was looking for something flexible in this slot yet.. different.
For whatever little added context, I support flash in blue green and this is the rest of my simic section:
I'd argue that you can throw almost any effect on a
cycler and have it be a great card in draft, especially in a cube where cycling, discard, and general graveyard payoffs are everywhere. Draftsim's Ikoria pick order puts Vantasaur over cards like Pyroceratops, Excavation Mole, and even (*gasp*) Almighty Brushwagg. A 3/6 vigilance card, during the late game, is going to be more impactful than your average random card from the top of your deck, which of course has a 1/3 chance of being a land and only about a 1/8 chance of being a 4+ cmc card that might outclass the vantasaur. Also worth noting is that the card is easy to splash off a random Chromatic Star or something. This all effectively makes it a colorless card, and we know how easy those are to underestimate in draft. Crucially, Vantasaur cannot be considered nearly as much of a colorless card in Ikoria, where there aren't any Drake Havens (technically there's Escape Protocol but that's not nearly as strong a payoff, at least in the context of Ikoria), Spider Spawnings and reanimator spells to broaden its appeal. I'd expect its pick order to be higher if there were. The presence of these themes in a cube make vantasaur a role-player that might not be one of the first 8 picks, but due to its versatility, probably wouldn't be one of the last couple cards to go.It's true the cycling/madness deck wants any 1-mana cycler, but other cube decks will only get to play 39 cards out of that, and the 1 mana to Street Wraith it away is a larger liability than the consistency advantage, if you won't cast the spell. One colored mana is a much higher cost that one colorless, making Shepherd and Renunciation much harder to include randomly.
In cube you usually have issues cutting cards from the deck. When the correct play to maximize winrate is to cut another cool card for a cycler so that your best card appears more often, I don't think that is conducive to fun deck building. OTOH, I can see a spikier group finding that an interesting feature.
Also, if the cube is graveyard based or something like that, none of that applies. that's why I'm asking in what cube you're thinking of including those.
In cube you usually have issues cutting cards from the deck. When the correct play to maximize winrate is to cut another cool card for a cycler so that your best card appears more often, I don't think that is conducive to fun deck building. OTOH, I can see a spikier group finding that an interesting feature.
Also, if the cube is graveyard based or something like that, none of that applies. that's why I'm asking in what cube you're thinking of including those.
vs Wondering how you guys feel these stack up. Quest can grab a dual but isn't really a land, although it does play similarly to Ash Barrens.
Then Elfhame can basically be any lower power GW land, as I'm considering Safewright as a land slot.
Wondering how you guys feel these stack up. Quest can grab a dual but isn't really a land, although it does play similarly to Ash Barrens.
Then Elfhame can basically be any lower power GW land, as I'm considering Safewright as a land slot.
has more play to it, although it only grabs basics.
Totally forgot about this card, as I'd opted out of split cards quite a while ago for this format. The additional text to read and questions about CMC (relevant here) for the casual players who often play with me seems like a bit much.