Inscho's Graveyard Combo Cube

None of them are quite what I'm looking for, but I didn't see a better option during my scryfall search. I'm all ears for suggestions.
That's what happens when you raise your power level :p
I think God-Pharoes gift is probably where you want to be as it has the graveyard intersectionality, but you could try either of these:



Re dimir control - yes to the delve cards, and keep murderous cut - could maybe go for delve/barron control with Elixir of Immortality? You already have some draw 7s which would also work with it. Could also add clear the mind?

Re white 4s -



But you'd need to fiddle with your targets...
 
You are also just close to having an artifact Dimir control deck. It's mostly blue artifact payoffs with black removal, but Marionette Master is great at ending games. Here is where Lurrus of the Dream-Den is so good at complementing Emry to recur baubles and such, but I get that it's too powerful.



Maybe some of these to cement the theme:

 
That's what happens when you raise your power level :p

Right?

I think God-Pharoes gift is probably where you want to be as it has the graveyard intersectionality, but you could try either of these:

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Yeah, I think Gift is the way to go. I may need to tone down some reanimation elsewhere....there's a lot of reanimation right now. But Gift goes well with the dredge stuff, and is another piece for dimir with emry, tinker, etc

I used to run the lotus in the old list, and I do like it....I could potentially slot it in over hedron archive.

Re dimir control - yes to the delve cards, and keep murderous cut - could maybe go for delve/barron control with Elixir of Immortality? You already have some draw 7s which would also work with it. Could also add clear the mind?

Yeah good point. I have Elixir. Nexus of Fate is my primary self-mill combo card. Maybe



Man, it would be ideal if it could mill and target your opponent. I was also running this briefly:



Which I still like quite a bit. A mono-blue Memory's Journey would be great
Re white 4s -



But you'd need to fiddle with your targets...

You know I love rector. It was a major piece in the old list....but at the time the payoffs I were running were things like:



Alongside Show and Tell. The cube is in a very different design space now.

There's definitely a path for it to weave through the cube with things like:



+ other misc sagas

It's kind of similar to Vesperlark in that regard with much higher upside. I'll have to think on it some more....I'm not sure whether I want to commit that kind of real estate or not.
 
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You are also just close to having an artifact Dimir control deck. It's mostly blue artifact payoffs with black removal, but Marionette Master is great at ending games.

Good point. It's a shame there isn't a Tezzeret that works for my power level. Tezzeret, the Seeker is close. I almost brought back Torrential Gearhulk, and I think Noxious Gearhulk is still too strong

Maybe some of these to cement the theme:

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I'm not sure why I've been hesitant to run the Foundry, but it does make sense. Maybe it's just a fear of colorless token spam

I like The Antiquities War quite a bit. It intersects with the clue and artifact token makers, and can be blinked for more pulses. It's bounced in and out of drafts so far. In a way it's like the Tezzeret I always wanted...it's always felt a little awkward to me for some reason so it's never made a final draft

I'm not a big fan of improvise in my cube, and in general I try to avoid cards that require a high volume of artifacts. Artifacts is more of a subtheme that ties some strategies together, but most are useful in their own right.

The partner text on Armix drives me crazy, but I have considered it. It's an interesting intersection card for Artifacts with the Discard and Dredge themes in black. It's relevant with even one other artifact in play/graveyard which is very doable.

I'm a big fan of Beacon....especially since it can target your opponent which is a lot of fun with the mill theme. Maybe it could slot in over one of the reanimation spells I mentioned previously?

I've never given Phyrexian Scriptures much of a look, but perhaps I should


Here is where Lurrus of the Dream-Den is so good at complementing Emry to recur baubles and such, but I get that it's too powe

Yeah Lurrus is filthy. I'm over here sweating over whether Rotting Regisaur is too good or not :D
 
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I think it might be helpful if you could articulate more what the higher power level means to you re design goals/principles - I think all I remember seeing now is 'explosive' :D

Yeah good point. I have Elixir. Nexus of Fate is my primary self-mill combo card.


?:D

I forgot about perpetual timepiece, it's so *almost* there.

I would love to run stream of thought, but no effort mill opponent for 8 isn't where I want to be. You're running Ashiok though, so I guess you wouldn't have a problem with it?

There's potential for a white graveyard enchantment deck with



May be a little slow for where you want to be now, but great with saga's, omens, aura based removal...
 
I think it might be helpful if you could articulate more what the higher power level means to you re design goals/principles - I think all I remember seeing now is 'explosive' :D

Leave me and my buzz word alone

But I for real need to sit down and update my first post with current design theory and archetype guide. It just such a daunting task. For now I’m all EFFICIENCY, TEMPO, EXPLOSIVE, SYNERGY, INTERSECTIONS, DYNAMISM. I feel like I’m back in art school critique with its dualities, juxtapositions, and liminal spaces. I get that I’m being a bit cartoony

My wife leaves to see family for a couple of weeks on Saturday, and maybe I’ll have the time to put that together soon


(I have a lot of nostalgia for legacy weapon and invasion block in general)

I would love to run stream of thought, but no effort mill opponent for 8 isn't where I want to be. You're running Ashiok though, so I guess you wouldn't have a problem with it?

Yeah, hard to say. I’m trying to leave my opponent mill components to the most flexible or symmetrical. I think stream is pretty useful in several decks as a self mill piece, and I think the format is fast enough that you won’t always be able to save it to nail your opponents library late game. Mill is a bit risky with the density of graveyard support, so it does need to have some teeth to it to be viable

There's potential for a white graveyard enchantment deck with

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May be a little slow for where you want to be now, but great with saga's, omens, aura based removal...

Definitely a viable thing, but having enchantment matters subtheme next to artifact and spells matters always felt like a big ask at <400 cards.
 
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The partner text on Armix drives me crazy, but I have considered it
I hear that. However, you are running Daretti, Scrap Savant that says basically the same :p

I think that adding Armix, Foundry and Beacon would be enough to have at least a functional artifact control deck where the pieces have value in other contexts. I especially like Armix in a RB shell which can go either fast or slow.
 
I hear that. However, you are running Daretti, Scrap Savant that says basically the same :p

I think that adding Armix, Foundry and Beacon would be enough to have at least a functional artifact control deck where the pieces have value in other contexts. I especially like Armix in a RB shell which can go either fast or slow.
I almost cut Daretti for Goblin Engineer in this update for that very reason, but I switched it back at the last minute. :confused:

Thanks for your comments. Any cuts you recommend? I think my pet card Zombie Infestation might need to go :confused::confused:

I think the delve bros with the extra artifact support might fix the dimir woes
 
Thanks for your comments. Any cuts you recommend?
Happy to brainstorm with you. Take some suggestions with a grain of salt, as I haven't tried Armix for example. Seems to fit nicely in theory though.

As for cuts, looking at your list I noticed that you have 2 pretty similar 3 drops, so one could maybe go.



Zombie Infestation is one that is a potential cut as well, especially since Armix provides you with a discard outlet too. However, you lose in explosiveness as Infestation is pretty unique.

The reanimation spell to cut is a tough one! I think Dread Return is the best of the bunch and should stay. For the sake of diversity, cutting the Blood for Bones might be best as Nullpriest of Oblivion is pretty unique. Also I'm not a huge fan of the situations where you literally cannot cast Blood for Bones because you don't have a creature in play.

For the Retrofitter Foundry, my choice would probably be Darksteel Citadel. Seems like a card that has narrow synergies (I might be missing the bigger picture!).
 
Based on everyone’s comments, I’m considering:

Out:


In:


Looking for an alternative cut to riverwinder, but I’m struggling to find something else. This seems like a pretty clear improvement.

Black’s artifact focus is still on tokens and blends into reanimation a bit more now. I’m going to hold off on Armix for now, but the suggestion was good. It’s just a little incremental and midrange in a way that doesn’t gel with what the color wants to do. The 3cmc sacrifice duo is too important for black as there aren’t many repeatable free sac outlets
 
I really like this inclusion! It helps to make reanimator strategies more consistent by giving them a "recyclable" reanimation spell, without requiring you to increase the density of reanimation effects in the format.

As for cuts, looking at your list I noticed that you have 2 pretty similar 3 drops, so one could maybe go.

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I definitely prefer Woe Strider to Yahenni. Woe Strider is an impeccable card for graveyard midrange and aristocrats decks alike, providing a source of card advantage for both strategies and acting like a unique engine peice. While Yahenni is also an aristocrat, they don't slot well into dredge-y decks like Woe Strider can, and they their aristocrat ability is worse to activate several times in a turn. Having played both, I can safely say Woe Strider has more angles to work with.

Looking for an alternative cut to riverwinder, but I’m struggling to find something else.
I prefer Striped Riverwinder to all of these cards:
I've played Striped Riverwinder in the past back when my cube more closely mirrored yours, and it's awesome. Riverwinder is great because it can be a nice dual cantrip and finisher for control decks, a good self-enabling reanimation target, and a nice sticky creature for ramp-style decks. The cards I listed above are either too slow, too conditional or too mediocre to be worth considering over Striped Riverwinder, since that card is capable of so much more than all of the others.
 
I think Just the Wind is easily the most expendable of those you mentioned. Maybe I’ll cut that instead of riverwinder which I agree has always played well for me....way better than you would expect on paper

I was really just trying to retain some madness for thematic purposes, but most of them are such an awkward fit in this cube despite having all of the enablers you would want in supporting the mechanic

Changes made.

Thanks!
 
Phew. Okay! The original post is updated with a primer. Would appreciate any feedback.

I'm currently trying to paste the original post here to clean up the first post, but I keep getting a server error message? Maybe it's too much text for a reply?
 
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Yes, very impressive! Feel daunted to even get something in the same ball park for my write up!

I like this line:

There are often no clear first picks and the path to deck construction is splintered with decision trees.

Might just steal that! Just a couple of comments:

* Would be good to include a link to the cube at the top of the page, I think the only link is in your sig still.
* I really liked the Versperlark deep dive to show what the interactions are capable of.
* For the boros example do you actually have a prowess aggro deck (only 2 prowess cards) do you want a better way to describe it?

As an aside, I wondered about bag of holding when I saw it in your list before. It's almost like a discard matters pay off card, which was cool, but then I remembered that the effect exiles from the graveyard, which goes against part of the role of discard in my cube which is simply to get things in the graveyard. Interested in your take on it?

But yeah, very cool.
 
Might just steal that!

Feel free! Drafting your cube was what made me realize how important that quality was for me and my cube.

* Would be good to include a link to the cube at the top of the page, I think the only link is in your sig still.

Leave it to me to spend a week writing something and forget to include the most important part. Funny coincidence: I just dropped my wife off at the airport, she had been planning what to pack for over a week (had a spreadsheet and everything!). We get to the airport and she had left the most important of her two bags at home. I had to drive 90 mph all the way back home to get it and then back so there was enough time to get through security. Birds of a feather I guess... :D

* I really liked the Versperlark deep dive to show what the interactions are capable of.

I think this is where you could get the most mileage out of your write up. You have even less clear archetypes. The snapshots are less useful for you, and loosely mapping out the types of interactions would be super enlightening for those approaching your cube for the first time.

* For the boros example do you actually have a prowess aggro deck (only 2 prowess cards) do you want a better way to describe it?

I'm pretty careless with my archetype naming. I call things madness this or dredge that when there are 3 cards with the actual dredge mechanic and 3 cards with the actual madness mechanic. Then again, I call one archetype the Wildfire deck when there is only one Wildfire in the cube. I'm mostly trying to capture the spirit of an archetype.

But I see that this does give the wrong impression. I need to think on it some. I'm open to suggestions on alternate archetype names.

As an aside, I wondered about bag of holding when I saw it in your list before. It's almost like a discard matters pay off card, which was cool, but then I remembered that the effect exiles from the graveyard, which goes against part of the role of discard in my cube which is simply to get things in the graveyard. Interested in your take on it?

First difference to note between our cubes is that getting things into the graveyard is never an issue for this cube. What is an issue for some archetypes is reliably profiting off of discard-centric effects. I'll use madness as a the main example: when your cube is full of things like:



all of the many card parity looting effects and card disadvantage discard mechanics instantly become card value. I've tried to run a higher density of these cards in the past, many fell out for just not being good or flexible enough for my goals. I was never interested in running ones that weren't good hard-casted. Arrogant Wurm makes me want to punch things. So I'm down to only 3 madness cards.

Without all of these madness cards in this cube, there are several strategies that aren't as able to reliably get value from all the discard-driven cards within their pool of cards. I say this with the understanding that a Merfolk Looter activation provides a valuable hand sculpting effect that is generically useful, but this cube thrives on leveraging cards/mechanics in creative ways for extra value.



Important things to note for my uses:
- The card is discarded. So it triggers things like Archfiend of Ifnir, Drake Haven, etc
- The card enters the graveyard before being exiled triggering things like Syr Konrad, the Grim twice, The Gitrog Monster, Turntimber Sower, etc
- It's an artifact and a trinket to boot. Artifacts are among the easiest permanents to recur and search for in this cube.
- It interacts with cycling as cycling is a discard effect. You can recklessly cycle away cards in the early game, and get them back in the mid-late game.
- The discard/exile effect is static and can get nutty with mass discard: An example, with an Ayula's Influence and the Bag you can pitch several lands and return to hand like a one shot Life from the Loam. Influence and Zombie Infestation are free discards that won't interfere with your need to keep 4 mana open to crack the Bag and replenish your hand
- It feeds itself, and has a solid baseline as cheap reusable hand sculpting effect
- If it starts to interfere with bigger and better plans, you can just sacrifice it

To give an idea of its usefulness in a hypothetical deck scenario. I'll use the example of Dimir Control. I recently cut Bone Miser and Faith of the Devoted so I'm left with the following discard-matters payoffs:



The color pairing has a ton of cards with a discard component:



(Plus all of the cycling lands and colorless cards with discard components)

If we don't have at least 2 of Curator, Haven, and Archfiend how do we get more value from these cards?

Well, there's delve and reanimation, there are cards that recur themselves...and there are some other small ways, but all of these cards are also top priorities for other drafters. That bloodghast will absolutely be drafted by the Gruul Berserker deck. What is typically in abundance are the glue cards that discard to some capacity. Sometimes you are just a little low on payoffs. I find that this tends to happen a little more in the slower blue-based decks. So in this example, in the absence of multiple payoffs, Bag will function much like any slow value engine would in your typical dimir control deck.

It's far from a perfect card, but what I like most about Bag of Holding is that it presents a very different axis for the discard foundation to function on.
 
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Something that I noticed when writing up the archetype snapshots:

Selesnya: I'm not satisfied with the berserkers and creature value distinction. Both want to play a bunch of dudes, and both get mileage out of hand flicker effects.

Pump via:



Value via:



+other ETBs

Distinguishing between the two is not useful. I think these should be organized into one archetype to make way to focus on a 4th archetype that pulls together green and white's underutilized themes in the guild.



Few cards have bounced in and out of my list like Emeria Angel. I'm reconsidering it now that Monastery Mentor is out of the list. On a similar note, I have not been satisfied with how this card is being utilized in Selesnya:



With all of the land tilling effects like Knight of the Reliquary and Elvish Reclaimer and green's many self-mill cards to provide extra triggers, the stage is set for sower to shine, and yet for the most part it does a whole lot of nothing in the guild as currently designed.

The combination of Emeria Angel and Turntimber Sower would stretch out the land theme into a go-wide theme and pair nicely with white's token making effects. The trouble is settling on the connective cards. Plant tokens are only good for blocking and sacrifice without some sort of anthem effect:



I'm pretty sure this one needs to come back. I cut it when I removed the +1/+1 counters subtheme and Ranger of Eos. I think I like it even more than Force of Virtue as it's easier to dig for a creature than an enchantment in this cube.

Another option is:


I'm not sure I want another awkward creature token making enchantment in this cube with Ayula's Influence, Zombie Infestation, and Drake Haven already present, but the team buffing effect triggered by landfall could be really good here.

It all comes back to wanting a more playable:



Deja vu

I'd love to hear suggestions on cards that might shore up this idea.

Other misc cards that I'm considering:



Helps with multiple casting triggers, a good blink target, puts multiple bodies on the ground...only grabbing one creature requires less from your deck and is sightly less formulaic than Ranger of Eos which would always grab me Mikaeus and one of Hangarback Walker or Walking Ballista. It has a nice range of targets, and I could accentuate that a little more.

and alternatively:
 
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Sorry for the back to back to back postings. One can only edit a single post so many times.

Another route to take the tokens angle in selesnya is one that I have explored in the past:



which makes more sense now with all of the big cycling creatures now available. It’s sympathetic with Mirari's Wake. It ties together the creature chaining, token making, land tilling, and ramp themes together pretty nicely.

Just run earthcraft or both?

or go lower powered with rite and


?

Then of course I’m back to thinking about the pairing of:


and the can of worms that is the counters theme. Not to mention the power creep...
 
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I think a small spells package is a really fun way to go. You already have all of these



Add in a few more payoffs and enablers and you have a distinct archetype with ties into other strategies



What is nice here is that Lightscribe acts as an anthem that you are looking for. I actually just went back and realized I misread your post about Mentor...You are NOT considering it. I think it could still work without.

Otherwise, the Earthcraft approach is always enticing. The ceiling is really high!
 
I think a small spells package is a really fun way to go. You already have all of these

Clarion Spirit
Sevinne's Reclamation
Battle Screech
Elspeth, Sun's Nemesis
Wild Mongrel
Noose Constrictor
Roar of the Wurm
Honored Hydra

Add in a few more payoffs and enablers and you have a distinct archetype with ties into other strategies

Leonin Lightscribe
Monastery Mentor
Call of the Herd]

What is nice here is that Lightscribe acts as an anthem that you are looking for. I actually just went back and realized I misread your post about Mentor...You are NOT considering it. I think it could still work without.

Otherwise, the Earthcraft approach is always enticing. The ceiling is really high!


Yeah, I cut Monastery Mentor from this cube, because it outclassed almost all other support cards. It would take whatever token/spells/artifact strategy you were carefully crafting and immediately funnel you in a different direction, and it was rarely the incorrect decision. Clarion Spirit was a godsend as a toned down alternative. It makes evasive tokens, triggers on creature casting, and spirit tokens are more much ubiquitous than monk tokens. I cut Lingering Souls for creating a similar phenomenon in drafts.

I'm interested in Leonin Lightscribe. I have it in my micro graveyard cube draft. I've been hesitant to include it here, because it would be the only instance of magecraft in the cube, and I don't love introducing one-offs of keywords when I can avoid it. It's also a little obnoxious how similar it is to prowess. I do like the fit especially for azorius and boros, but it seems like it could be a little too strong. I haven't had an opportunity to test it so I would love to hear some feedback on its power level.

I think part of the trouble is that white is easily the anchor color for tokens in the Selesnya pairing, so there needs to be something worthwhile enough to do with tokens in green to make it an enticing avenue to explore....adding more ammo in white for tokens doesn't help green's case. The other token strategies are too sexy for whatever ragtag cobbled together pool of cards green can currently offer.

Shifting the focus to the lands/token angle might alleviate this, because green is THE color for land related effects and land recursion. If you p1p1 Emeria Angel....Ramunap Excavator becomes just as enticing as Young Pyromancer. What this theoretical archetype is lacking is an anchoring payoff that is green. Mirari's Wake gets there some, but it is so generically good and useful that it doesn't offer any real vision of the archetype.

Jamming Earthcraft is one solution. Although, it's such an absurd card that it feels like playing with gasoline. It would be the perfect power level if it only allowed you to produce colorless. Cryptolith Rite is so underwhelming in comparison.

I don't think the answer is Gaea's Anthem or a simple Overrun....Champion of Lambholt doesn't intersect well with any of the other guilds in ways that interest me.....Glare of Subdual is good, but is random and I don't want to spend the guild slot.

I'm not sure Avenger of Zendikar is the card either...hm
 
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2 cards I've been super happy with in Green for tokens are:



Jolrael needs some accommodating to fit into the cube, but having Clarion Spirit + Jolrael along with Mishra's Bauble, Manamorphose, Thraben Inspector, Explore, Chromatic Star and others is really cool. It fits well into other colors too, primarily Blue and Red for the looting.

Chariot is probably too much value in one package for this cube, but it's great with Honored Hydra and makes you (well me at least) want to build around it.

As for Leonin Lightscribe , it is definitely a powerhouse. However, it's tough to build a deck where you can reliably trigger it every turn. It does snowball pretty hard so maybe not worth it.

No good solution from me for the token dilemma. Maja, Bretagard Protector hits a lot of boxes as an anthem and lands payoff, but it feels low powered.
 
Jolrael is a cool suggestion. I wouldn't mind living the dream with cycling lands and Life from the Loam

Drawing cards and tokens reminds of this card that Dom inspired me to use once. It slayed so hard in its first draft I had to immediately cut it:



EDIT:Version A:
As Ineffable Blessing enters the battlefield, choose Flavorful or Bland.
• Flavorful — Whenever a creature with flavor text enters the battlefield under your control, draw a card.
• Bland — Whenever a creature without flavor text enters the battlefield under your control, draw a card.
 
I think I have a simple solution:

Proposed Out:


Proposed In:


Knight of Autumn was just a versatile dude, and Rec Sage does a reasonable enough approximation since the ETB Disenchant was the most useful mode on the knight. Jadelight is great for its versatility, but one of the green three drops that cares about lands had to go. It was between it or Tireless Tracker, but for now I'm enjoying the minor artifact intersection it provides alongside Gilded Goose, so Ranger goes.

Mentor has a higher ceiling than Militia Bugler, but Bugler has a better baseline and is more useful to more archetypes. Bugler is a great body for blinking in Selesnya in particular, and can help get you the second cast triggers on Clarion Spirit and Vengevine. It also hunts for key build around creatures in every color combination.

What this does for Selesnya is it takes advantage of the available land tutors:


To fetch a land package that telegraphs going-wide as one of the game plans for the guild:


Felidar Retreat also presents the land/tokens intersection and gives the archetype a higher ceiling by comboing with these green cards:



and



Or these pieces can take a slower form in a shell like:


This slower deck pivots well into the Rampinator archetype:



And the more land tilling-centric tokens deck pivots well into the creature pump (name tbd) archetype:



Without really disrupting any of what the other guilds want to be doing.
 
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For me, Selesnya is the most problematic of the guilds, and it's always good to see others struggle with it too. I can't put my finger on why it's such a problem, I wonder if it's because there's both so much overlap but also such a lack of interesting archetypal possibilities.

I think your 4 card Selesyna solution is great, and you should certainly make the changes. I think it's really good. This might be too much for you, but geier reach sanitarium would help you slot the GW lands archetype into GW reanimator too?

I've never been that impressed by turntimber sower, just feels like there's too many hoops to jump through, and not a lot of reward. Emeria Angel should be good with the new improved approach to Selesnya though. Though that reinforces the theme is 'landfall' rather than go wide powered by lands and graveyard, so might not be the direction you want to go, but does point the drafter in direction of GW.

The Earthcraft route just makes me uncomfortable. I know you have a higher power level, but Earthcraft is real power. I think you could (and should?) certainly make room for Jolreal with all the cycling effects. Don't think it's living the dream, it's very achievable.
 
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