Inscho's Graveyard Combo Cube

[inscho]

I think this is probably fine for drafters. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the other archetypes though, for my own interest.

I imagine part of why this works so well is that the graveyard interactions mean you can really turn the red looters into legitimate draw spells, strong enough to compete with blue?

So instead of having blue with the card advantage monopoly, red can cover that angle as well, and open up the non-blue combinations?

Definitely. Blue's draw suite has been heavily curated, and the emphasis of the graveyard functioning as a second hand means that red's looting and wheel effects become very powerful, and also funny things like decks occasionally running Golgari Grave-Troll with no access to green mana just to fuel the graveyard for value (Deep Analysis) or ramp (Tombstalker) or wincon (Laboratory Maniac)

Some other archetypes supported:


Azorius Reanimator


Dimir Dreams Combo:


Rakdos Death Cloud


Gruul Turboland


Orzhov Control



Simic Oath:


Izzet Wildfire



That would leave me figuring out the 4th archetypes for Selesnya, Boros, and Golgari. Selesnya was supposed to have a hatebears strategy that's a little anemic at the moment. both selesnya and boros have had berserker archetypes at certain points, but are now lacking the support....golgari has the rock? although that bleeds into the stax deck so maybe not distinct enough to mention. The current snapshot of the sacrifice deck encapsulates 3 different slants (dredge, sacrifice, and reanimator). Hmm...

 

[inscho]

Added a fourth archetype to each guild. Forgot about Boros artifact aggro. Went with hatebears/company for Selesnya. Made some differentiation between the sacrifice deck and dredge deck in Golgari...though they do crossover into each other.

 

[inscho]

Back to tinkering with this list. A common theme in the edits are promoting combo strategies equally in all colors, and cutting down on the number of auto-draft cards...Lingering Souls, Vampiric Tutor, etc

I realized that Simic was sorely lacking in depth. 3 of the 4 archetypes I listed are really the extension of one deck. So I will be testing an Intruder Alarm package mostly inspired by dbs' suggestions.

Still very much trying to allow fair strategies to coexist alongside the increase in combo. I think I'll get a chance to take the cube for a spin next week. Will update the original post once things have settled down after some testing.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Back to tinkering with this list. A common theme in the edits are promoting combo strategies equally in all colors, and cutting down on the number of auto-draft cards...Lingering Souls, Vampiric Tutor, etc

I realized that Simic was sorely lacking in depth. 3 of the 4 archetypes I listed are really the extension of one deck. So I will be testing an Intruder Alarm package mostly inspired by dbs' suggestions.

Still very much trying to allow fair strategies to coexist alongside the increase in combo. I think I'll get a chance to take the cube for a spin next week. Will update the original post once things have settled down after some testing.

You're running Intruder Alarm and Earthcraft but no Squirrel Nest? Bro...

I don't quite have time to make any example decklists right now, but I think Squirrel Nest actually fits quite well with a number of the themes in your cube. You just have a lot of incidental squirrels support, and I think you could make the deck work with minimal slot usage.

 

[inscho]

Got a full pod for a pseudo Birthday Cube. Good way to celebrate my 35th. Due to the special occasion, I required everyone to bring a random prize for support, heavily emphasizing the random. The prize pot included:

1 piece of Lapis Lazuli from Afghanistan
1 custom stamped metal Benjamin Franklin head
1 unworn black metal t-shirt XL
1 $20 bill
1 $1 bill
1 giant cookie monster cupcake
1 pack of sleeves
3 packs from random OOP sets

As a painter, I was very excited to win the Lapis Lazuli. One of most valued sources for blue pigment used in Ultramarine Blue in the Classic Age, a symbol of wealth and prestige. Most ultramarine blue is made with synthetic pigments these days, but if you're willing to spend enough you can still get the real stuff today. I'll keep this in my trinket draw rather than grinding it up for use.

On to the decks..
3-0:



My first round opponent...this deck was a monster. Chief Engineer allowed him to accelerate into Mindslaver soft-locks. Tons of recursion. Just a well-built deck. Everyone felt fine with Slaver win-con, because of how intricate and vulnerable the deck was. This guy had never really had much success with this cube in the past, and I could tell he was growing a little dejected. He left the night super vocal, excited, and ready for the next cube night. I'm glad things clicked for him.

2-0:



A beast of a deck, and about the closest to a good-stuff deck as you can get in this cube. It maintains a degree of nuance that keeps it from feeling problematic. Keranos is on my watchlist.

2-1:



This deck had the potential for an optimized jund madness deck in the sideboard, but the pilot opted to cut in some cheaty things. I have no doubt he could have gone undefeated if he'd committed fully to the strategy. I saw Artisan in play a few times, and recurred Doom Engines for lethal...so I guess it worked out fine!


The other decks
1-2: Golgari Lands (me)
1-2: Aristocrats
1-2: Wheel Combo (thousand year storm)
1-1?: Esper Dredge
0-3: Orzhov Stax

Despite their losing records, the pilots for the Aristocrats and Stax decks were already trying to plan the next time they could come out and take another stab at the cube. Both of these guys were used to traditional powered cubes, and they commented on how challenging the draft experience was with a variety of intersecting strategies, intricacy in card interactions and zone interplay, and a lack of clear auto-picks....all things I wanted to hear

The unanimous feedback from those with prior experience with this cube is that this is the best version to date by significant margin. The Esper dredge pilot had never really cubed in the past, but managed to put together a pretty coherent and considered deck and split his matches. I couldn't get a clear sense of how much he liked the experience, but he seems to be up for making the next cube night.

Only negative feedback I got was regarding how light on removal the cube seems to be. After looking through the decks, I do think I may be a couple pieces shy of an appropriate amount....so that's something I'll be tinkering with in the next weeks. I think what is mostly being felt is a lack of unconditional removal options. An intentional decision, but with so many combos floating around, there needs to be enough removal to keep people from uninteractively spinning their wheels. Would appreciate any feedback on that.

Feeling good about the general state of the cube, and it's nice to see so much enthusiasm. You tweak and adjust and develop your cube theories until you're blue in the face, but to see it play out like you envision is deeply satisfying.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Happy Birthday! Your cube is really great <3!

Best wishes!

 

[dbs]

Got a full pod for a pseudo Birthday Cube. Good way to celebrate my 35th.

It's my pseudo-birthday as well, so we've clearly got that astrologically-matched cube energy. Great post, loving these decklists. I really like Academy Rector with Keranos and Splendor as targets - it's a lovely little package grafted on a control deck. Overall, I'm really impressed at how your cube manages to pull off the combo angle while still not feeling terribly foreign to a more midrange-y unpowered environment. It's a mix of the best parts of standard cube, with riptidean feed-bad limiters, plus the extra combo spice.

Anyway that welder deck looks NASTY...

This guy had never really had much success with this cube in the past, and I could tell he was growing a little dejected. He left the night super vocal, excited, and ready for the next cube night. I'm glad things clicked for him.

but this is so crucial. I've found this is a really important thing to look out for in my own playgroup.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Only 35? You so young! Happy birthday!

 

[inscho]

Happy Birthday! Your cube is really great <3!

Best wishes!

Thanks!

It's my pseudo-birthday as well, so we've clearly got that astrologically-matched cube energy. Great post, loving these decklists. I really like Academy Rector with Keranos and Splendor as targets - it's a lovely little package grafted on a control deck. Overall, I'm really impressed at how your cube manages to pull off the combo angle while still not feeling terribly foreign to a more midrange-y unpowered environment. It's a mix of the best parts of standard cube, with riptidean feed-bad limiters, plus the extra combo spice.

Anyway that welder deck looks NASTY...




but this is so crucial. I've found this is a really important thing to look out for in my own playgroup.

Thanks! Happy Birthday to you! I have to say that the handful of changes I made that were inspired by your cube have opened up some troublesome color pairings, and have really contributed to the cube's recent success.

Only 35? You so young! Happy birthday!

Doesn't always feel that way thanks!!

 

[Erik Twice]

Wow I love your cube, inscho! It really is a source of inspiration, specially since we seem to like so many of the same things. Like you, I liked Extended and have a fondness for its style of play. I also like how you have integrated so many ideas, archetypes and how you have managed to include some very high power cards in an otherwise medium-power environment.

I'll be copying you quite a bit for my Cube

 

[inscho]

Wow I love your cube, inscho! It really is a source of inspiration, specially since we seem to like so many of the same things. Like you, I liked Extended and have a fondness for its style of play. I also like how you have integrated so many ideas, archetypes and how you have managed to include some very high power cards in an otherwise medium-power environment.

I'll be copying you quite a bit for my Cube

Thanks for the kind words! and welcome to the forum.

Integrating those explosive/game-warping cards within a "fair" framework has been a long process of trial and error. I'm still not convinced I've got it fully figured out, but I'm definitely closer than I've been before. During the process, I needed to create a lot of loose rules for myself regarding the quality of removal, size/types of threats, presence of disruptive strategies, defining acceptable and unacceptable combo win-conditions, etc.

Centering the cube around the graveyard, and increasing the density of artifact strategies and colorless build-arounds were the biggest factors towards maximizing the amount of supported archetypes. So if you value that type of defined variety, it may be something to keep in mind when designing. I say defined, because the alternative to having more archetypes is having less archetypes with more ambiguity and space within them for exploration which creates a more forgiving draft experience. This is a decision dense, rigorous and uncompromising cube environment....The fatigue factor is the greatest weakness of the cube in my eyes right now. I've made a lot of revisions lately with fatigue in mind. If I can't find an acceptable way to have my cake and eat it, I think I will need to design a companion casual cube that functions as a palate cleanser, that focuses more on creating a relaxed/social environment, and is easier for less-experienced players to navigate. I find that I don't get a lot of cross-game chatter, because everyone is so focused on everything that is going on in front of them (ymmv). Sometimes you've had a hard week at work, have been super stressed out, and you don't feel like solving a complex puzzle, sometimes you just need a reason to get friends together for beer and crack some jokes...but perhaps that's a dish best served by a different format altogether.

I imagine you've lurked some here, but a few cubes that I look to (and have looked at) frequently for different reasons:
dbs
bonzo
dom
ahadabans
EsMag

I've drawn on a lot of knowledge from this forum and the user's lists, so I encourage you look around some if you haven't already.

 

[Erik Twice]

Thanks for the warm welcome inscho

Something I appreciate about this forum is that people think very throughly about all the different factors. And not just archetypes, but how removal, power and different metagame forces impact the game. I understand what you mean about fatigue and being inaccessbile to beginners. I'm building a cube to have a bit of what I like in Magic that I can easily bring out. But what I like in Magic and what my friends at the club who stopped back when 5th edition was new will readily understand may not be the same!

Thanks a lot for the recommendations, I've checked them out for ideas

 

[inscho]

Got a 6 man in on Thursday:

Winner's Bracket (all 2-1)



Great to see an aggro deck successful. This was the guy that was a first timer at the last cube outing. I could see the improvements in his deck having one under his belt. He mashed up a few themes in Boros with a peppering of Hellbent, and had a couple questionable cards in the sideboard (Shrine of Loyal Legions and Battle Screech). In the end, the speed of the deck compensated for any mistakes in the build.





This was last cubing's "keranos" drafter, and he comes out of the gates with what feels close to a standard unpowered cube deck. He had Earthcraft and Cryptolith Rite in the sideboard, so it looked like he was onto something spicy, but the pool didn't quite come through for him. Looking at the cube list I don't see a lot of generic good stuff cards, but this fella managed to cherry-pick them into a deck that sends me into a mild panic and causes me to question everything I know. In reality, it's probably fine if one out of 6 decks is like this.





Overwhelming Splendor has officially been errata'd to Overwhelming Terror. It's really proving to be a challenging card to combat. It's on the watchlist after two successive nights of oppression. I'm eager to see if builders can adapt to it. That aside, this build is what I'd envisioned for the Azorius control archetype. Was particularly excited to see Replenish implemented...recurring Conjecture, and sneaking out Splendor. There were a LOT of wins off of Approach.




Storm/Artifact mashup. The deck seems to have quite the identity crisis, with Death Cloud, Cruel Ultimatum, and Empty the Warrens all taking up deck real estate. He was able to switch gears to his matchups, and seemed to win most of his matchups on the back of Ultimatum and Mindslaver.


Loser's Bracket: (1-2)





I was pretty optimistic as I drafted, but my build was pretty split between aristocrats, stax, and sneak attack. In the end, I didn't do any strategy all that effectively. The build was pretty close in a lot of ways, but came up a couple turns short of a winning record. I felt I was in a lot of games, and Marionette Master is a effin' house. My most successful games were when I could buy time via Tangle Wire and Braids. I lost to the Simic deck and the Cruel Ultimatum deck, but each match went to 3 games.

It's kind of nice to not dominate the drafts like I have in the past. I've been getting my assed kicked since this last overhaul! I'll have show these chumps what's what next time.

(0-3)


With two drafters cutting hard into his theme, the storm deck came up two nuggets shy of a happy meal. I didn't see the deck in action very much throughout the night. Our match was pretty uneventful, he didn't do that much against me. His creatures were easy to dispatch, and he didn't land Thousand-Year Storm. I'll have to ask him more about how the matches went. The build looks promising, and is a nice surprise with only 75% of the cube being drafted.

It was another loud night. Lots of big plays and memorable games. We thought of timing our rounds, but the best games often stretch out the longest. So we wrapped up well after midnight, and all trudged to our 9-5s the next morning.

 

[inscho]

Got a cube night in last night, and got my ass handed to me yet again.

I'll post decks on Sunday. In the meantime, I'm looking to replace Teysa Karlov as it's proving to be too narrow. Could use some input from you guys. The options I'm currently considering as replacement:



A little slow even when cheated out, but I do love having an additional Replenish, Academy Rector, Show and Tell, Dream Halls target



Tutorable with Rector, and can provide a similar combo component as I'd envisioned for Teysa.



A little durdly and midrange, but provides some crossover with artifacts and aristocrats.



I like the idea of having a signal for hatebears in the orzhov pairing as it's not the most obvious archetype at the moment. Spell-centric blue decks are also getting a lot of run, but this might shut those decks down a little too much.



My life sub-theme is pretty anemic at the moment, and this would provide a payoff. However, I'm considering cutting the theme altogether as it feels haphazardly pasted into my cube without any real purpose.


Open to other suggestions!

 

[Nanonox]

Just curious, what is the reason behind the absence of Lingering Souls? Goes in pretty much all your Orzhov archetypes and seems right at home in a GY cube.

 

[inscho]

Just curious, what is the reason behind the absence of Lingering Souls? Goes in pretty much all your Orzhov archetypes and seems right at home in a GY cube.

It's a great card and does fit perfectly in the cube so it's a fair question. I ran it for a long time, but it proved to be quite an autodraft card in this format. I've tried to reduce the amount of those types of cards, as they can result in decks feeling a little goodstuffy rather than a cohesive archetype. So far, I've liked how engaging drafts have felt in their absence. That said, Lingering Souls was one of the harder cuts to make, and I'm not above bringing it back.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

I'm a big fan of hidden stockpile, but you're right in that it's durdly. It's one of my more solid locks though.

 

[inscho]

I'm a big fan of hidden stockpile, but you're right in that it's durdly. It's one of my more solid locks though.

Locks? do you mean an actual lock or one of the more solid includes in your cube?


I'm leaning towards atheros at the moment. I was looking at dbs's cube and was intrigued by Enduring Renewal, but this seems like a less complicated alternative, while offering some variance that I like.

 

[inscho]

Little late getting the decklists up, but Endgame and GoT are more important on a Sunday. Apologies for the lack of details, I had too much Founders Kentucky Breakfast Stout (12.3%!) too early, and couldn't remember much other than talking loudly at my opponents.

Onto the decks:

3-0




Boros has put up its second good showing in a row. This mash up aggro feels much more blended than in the last outing.


2-1




This was a very cool deck to see pop up, and made me glad I didn't pass Gifts Ungiven. He could transform his maindeck into a laboratory maniac deck against slower matchups, and pulled out at least one win off the maniac which is always dope.






First appearance of Berserkers in some time. His Become Immense and Roar of the Wurm in the sideboard made me a little sad, but he didn't seem too miss them too much.

1-2




My deck. P1P1 mentor into p2 metamorph. Didn't see/draft enough spells to gas up the build. I mistakenly thought that Migratory Route would wheel. Drafted Jeskai Ascendancy in pack one, but obviously red was heavily drafted at the table. I mostly relied on cloning Mentor and doubling up on any triggers I could muster. Didn't see Saheeli enough to develop an opinion. Had no other options in my sideboard.





Goodstuff Bud came up with this gnarly beast that was a couple pieces shy of something truly ridiculous. He was obviously cut heavily on both sides, and was too deep into the archetype to pivot before he realized he'd be short on playables. Still, it's incredibly easy to win via Thousand-Year Storm, and he came close to pulling out a winning record. That card is a one-card archetype.


0-3



This was New Cuber's deck this week. Although the final deck was disjointed, it was exciting to see the exploration into combo and the attempt to bridge themes. He was close to having a great go wide ramp theme. We talked at length about his draft pool, and I suggested that it might've been better to cut some of the combo in favor of a stax approach as he had Braids, Cabal Minion, Evolutionary Leap, and Bloodghast among others in the sideboard. In other news, New Cuber is now working on designing his own cube. He's got the itch!

Berserker Bro has his time-shared fully pimped power cube back in hand , so cubing with mine might be happening a little less frequently now. But it's been nice to get some regular sessions in lately!

 

[inscho]

A fellow forum member recently reached out with a version of my cube that his playgroup has been testing with the storm package removed. It's pretty interesting to get a glimpse into an alternate reality of my cube. It has me thinking about which combo archetypes pivot the easiest into others, which archetypes require the most real estate or niche cards, as well as new archetypes that can be introduced.

I'm not fully satisfied with the integration of Intruder Alarm and Paradox Engine. It surely blows the lid off of Simic, but is largely underwhelming elsewhere. I don't love many of the cards I need to run alongside them as support. I'm experimenting with the Pod archetype, because I love Prime Speaker Vannifar. The small "life" theme has been cut....it just didn't really fit into anything else my archetypes want to be doing.

Still tinkering. Always tinkering.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Spoiler: Endgame Spoiler

RIP Ant-Man's Taco

 

[inscho]

Currently trying to trim the list down to 360. Working version here:

https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/inscho

 

[Nanonox]

I did a couple of drafts and I really liked all the possibilities your cube offers.

I noticed a few cards that stood out to me as either potential cuts or swaps:

Miraculous Recovery: Instant speed is cool, 5 mana is not. +1/+1 counter is cool, again, 5 mana is not! Have you tested Elspeth Conquers Death? More or less the same thing with enchantment synergies (goes to the GY on it's own for Replenish).

Maybe cutting a sacrifice outlet: You have Carrion Feeder, Woe Strider, Greater Gargadon, Goblin Bombardment, Phyrexian Altar, Altar of Dementia, Blasting Station. I love everyone of these and I like that each gives you a different reward for sacrificing except Goblin Bombardment and Blasting Station. So one of those 2?

Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth: Seems worse than all your other cards and more expendable.

That's all I have for now. Good luck cutting those last cards!

 

[inscho]

Thanks! I implemented a couple of your suggestions.

Made some revisions...a few cards I'm pretty excited about that I'm sure have been discussed elsewhere:



I've run Porcelain Legionnaire and Sigil of Distinction at various times, but could rarely justify the space. The serpent covers the same niche, but in one card.

Great artifact body for the boros and orzhov artifact aggro decks....retrievable with Ranger of Eos and Trinket Mage. Easily recurred with Scrap Trawler. Trample is useful for berserkers. It's a curve topper for Earthcraft powered decks. Useful in control builds. This card is such a win!



Is this a clear upgrade over Lab Man? It almost is. I decided to pair it with:



To really weaponize those dredging mesmeric orb decks



Brought this wordy Dom-special back. I hate having only one cumulative upkeep card in the cube, let alone one that with a mile of text, but I really value the dimension it adds to the Extractor Demon, Altar of Dementia, Living Death, Mesmeric Orb decks.

Currently assessing the density of support for the izzet midrange artifact durdle decks....I think there's just a little too much available for the archetype.



Feels like one redundant piece too many....I'm thinking Trading Post will probably get the axe...or maybe Goblin Engineer (as much as I love the built-in tutor)...or maybe both. I don't want to cut Welder or Daretti due to their overlap with Sneak Attack and Reanimator decks. Emry has some utility outside of the archetype and is an archetype enabler that feels more appropriate to my cube than Grand Architect or Sai, Master Thopterist....

If I cut both engineer and post, maybe it'd open up space to bring in



How's he been in testing for folks? He fixes the ramp of Inspiring Statuary, which proved a little too awkward in practice for my decks.

Feeling a bit sensitive to the lack of no-nonsense midrange beef at the moment. Will be looking to add 2-3 pieces that scratch that itch....Polukranos, World Eater and the like

 

[dbs]

...

Currently assessing the density of support for the izzet midrange artifact durdle decks....I think there's just a little too much available for the archetype.



Feels like one redundant piece too many....I'm thinking Trading Post will probably get the axe...or maybe Goblin Engineer (as much as I love the built-in tutor)...or maybe both. I don't want to cut Welder or Daretti due to their overlap with Sneak Attack and Reanimator decks. Emry has some utility outside of the archetype and is an archetype enabler that feels more appropriate to my cube than Grand Architect or Sai, Master Thopterist....

I'm very sympathetic to this. I had one too many narrow artifact support cards and since those cards were concentrated in UR it made it less natural to run artifacts outside that color combination. I may more drastically cut back on "artifact only" cards in the future to let people focus on adding an artifact dimension to other archetypes instead, which I find more interesting from a draft perspective. But to start I've just cut a few like



These were all fun cards that saw play, but they fit into too few decks, and resulted in way too many redundant pieces. I do really want to put Emry in, but since I play (and like) Sai, I feel I just don't have the space without exacerbating that same problem.

I've also taken a page out of Dom's book and added more Artifact aggro options - some colorless attackers and a small equipment suite. The equipment in particular has felt quite good - it really helps the aggro decks have a little extra play while providing natural artifact synergies. Again, this is less focused on an "artifact archetype" as such.

If I cut both engineer and post, maybe it'd open up space to bring in



How's he been in testing for folks? He fixes the ramp of Inspiring Statuary, which proved a little too awkward in practice for my decks.

....

I've now gotten quite a bit of testing with Urza, and the card is busted. I think right now (if I'm drafting to win) it's at virtually the top of my pick order. Strong enough to pull me in a different direction halfway through pack two. It's generically good without combo elements, and with even a little bit of combo potential you get huge turns. Right now I wouldn't cut it because we're having a lot of fun exploring what the card can do in different combo shells... but I have a pretty distinct feeling he'll get the axe in a couple months. Kind of reminds me of Titania which I cut for similar reasons, but she stayed around for quite a while because we liked playing her.