Inscho's Graveyard Combo Cube

Had a little bit of clarity with my white and green sections. Following changes:

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With all of the blink, tokens, and recursion, Mentor is a better payoff than Bishop, and more explosive. I'd fallen out of love with Bishop anyways, and I mentioned this the other day in the white 3 drop thread:

My once diehard support for this card is starting to wane. For my needs, it feels like you get a slow midrange value engine or you run a suite of Kor Skyfisher-type bodies to get off a two card repetitive combo that doesn't actively win you the game...you just bounce your dudes ad infinitum until your opponent's eyes bleed. I've never run Oketra's Monument for that reason. Needing to cast the creature feels weirdly restrictive for my cube right now. I do appreciate its evasion and artifact support for things like Marionette Master and Cranial Plating, but it's on the hot seat in my cube (which is in shambles rn)

Battle Screech is one of my favorite token makers and it's flashback ties in well with Mentor by not eating up your mana. I just think it's more elegant than Expertise and slots better with spell based token strategies which could use some love.

I realized what I wanted out of increasing devotion is what I have with decree of justice....a swingy payoff card for times when your deck has the potential to crank out a lot of mana. Decree is a lot more fun to me, and slots better into control decks, ramp decks, cycle decks, etc. and I don't really want two of this effect.

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Fecundity was residue from the past version of the GCC, and is less of what I want to do now with cards like Protean Hulk and Academy Rector no longer in the list. Although I still may bring hulk back because it's one of my favorite cube cards, but for now it feels a little limited in this current list.

Pattern of Rebirth is a another favorite of mine, and I've been looking for more ways to sneak fair cheat strategies into decks. Evolution is a little too midrange for me, and with Evolutionary Leap and Fauna Shaman, I prefer the more explosive searcher with the cube slot. It can also be recurred with Restoration Specialist, and I'm always aiming to complexify Selesnya.

Both additions supplements greens role in the Sneak Attack deck which was being dwarfed by the intersection of artifact reanimation in white, blue, and black. Greenwarden is a great ramp target, and I want Selesnya Ramp to be more of a thing. It can buyback an early cycled bomb like: Shark Typhoon, Decree of Justice, Eternal Dragon.....and is really good withApprentice Necromancer, Makeshift Mannequin, and Dread Return to bring back a clutch Living Death or other combo piece.

Cut down to 380, and I'm happy at that number because it still leaves for some variance in a pod of 8:

Cuts:



More residue from the old GCC list and a couple awkward cogs. Some of these became less important with the subtractions of Oath of Druids, Show and Tell, Tinker, etc. I would like to beef up the hand discard suite, but I'm not sure what I want to do there yet. Inquisition is pretty bad in my environment.


Other cards under consideration:
 
They all seem like good swaps. A few other thoughts - I think forbid is grbs, and I hate it every time I see it in your list. Do you not mind it? Have you considered swapping wayfarers bauble for expedition map now you have some interesting lands?


I actually really like Forbid, and with an up-tempo environment it can provide a nice buildaround for control. I just appreciate the axis of play for control, but I'm not necessarily above cutting it. It could be Neutralize, Supreme Will, or maybe Syncopate. But with the amount of self-recursion, resource denial, and tempo, I think it's painted as more of a bogeyman than it necessarily deserves. Anyone else have strong feelings for Forbid either way? I know it's one of those cards like Sensei's Top for people. I admit it has made one visitor to my playgroup rage-quit and leave, but he was pretty annoying and I was a little happy to see him go :D

I think Expedition Map is far superior here. Good call, I'm making that swap now!
 
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Just the bad potential Forbid represents puts it out of lists for me, even if rare for a particular list. One consistent enough way to have 2 cards per turn can be a lockout, at least for long enough to push through the win. That might only be 2-3 turns. Neutralize would probably be my pick in it's place.

Cards like that are always play group specific, but I know mine would detest that sort of card. A however-many-turn anti-climax of a supposedly tight-knit battle up to that point...
 
Just the bad potential Forbid represents puts it out of lists for me, even if rare for a particular list. One consistent enough way to have 2 cards per turn can be a lockout, at least for long enough to push through the win. That might only be 2-3 turns. Neutralize would probably be my pick in it's place.

Cards like that are always play group specific, but I know mine would detest that sort of card. A however-many-turn anti-climax of a supposedly tight-knit battle up to that point...


That's a fair point.

I probably don't need to lean so heavy into old design sensibilities and archetype construction, because my cube is radically different now. I'm pretty shocked at how different and interesting the test-drafts play out with all of the cycling and secondary casting modes....it feels like the lid has been blown off of my cube.

I'll make the switch with Neutralize. Can't have enough cycling amirite?

The sacred cows are falling left and right today!
 
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Dom Harvey

Contributor
Forbid creates the feeling of knowing that the game is over and that nothing you do in the rest of the game will matter - it's satisfying to play around the first counter and make them have the second, but less so when they always have it because the first one is the second and so on. The power-max crowd has soured on Forbid because Cancel gets worse and worse as formats become more ruthless but it's very good at locking up games in slower formats. It's a good incentive to be a hard control deck if you want that but there are enough other good Cancels with upside (Disallow! Sinister Sabotage!) that it seems like an unnecessary risk
 
Alf asked me about what Darksteel Citadel is for on Cube Cobra... and because I'm unreasonably excited about Darksteel Citadel, I figured I'd share it here:

A: This seems low impact, what's it for?

I: Help overlap land and artifact synergies. Fetchable with trinket mage, recurs with scrap trawler, emry....sacrifice it to marionette master, weld it, counts for delirium, etc....just a nice little glue card...I also want Gruul welders to be more of a thing, and since green is deft at managing lands it seemed like an easy way to help encourage the relationship.


I'm also pasting it here, because I'm thinking more about green's relationship to artifacts in the cube, and wondering if now could be the time for this card to shine:



For context, this would be likely be at the expense of Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis. Hogaak is a pretty wacky buildaround and achievement unlocker....but fairly narrow. Glissa could be a nice bridge between the Delirum Aggro, Sacrifice, and Stax/Land Dredge strategies in the guild.
 
Forbid creates the feeling of knowing that the game is over and that nothing you do in the rest of the game will matter - it's satisfying to play around the first counter and make them have the second, but less so when they always have it because the first one is the second and so on. The power-max crowd has soured on Forbid because Cancel gets worse and worse as formats become more ruthless but it's very good at locking up games in slower formats. It's a good incentive to be a hard control deck if you want that but there are enough other good Cancels with upside (Disallow! Sinister Sabotage!) that it seems like an unnecessary risk

Very well put. Thanks for giving me some closure in this time of loss
 
Haha, I try to avoid feel bad situations, and prefer games to be a bit more nuanced but maybe I err too much on the side of caution.


I'm coming from the opposite end of the spectrum, but I get that wriggling out of locks and mass land destruction is an acquired taste.
 
Trying to squeeze in that memory jar I left out, and finally need to address having one too many orzhov cards...

Cut one:


(unburial rites stays)

I’m leaning towards knight, but I really like the combo edge it brings to the orzhov sac/recursion deck
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
is hidden stockpile accomplishing anything in your list other than needless busywork

Like I know what the card can do, technically, but is it actually a worthwhile cog in that machine or are people just taking a bunch of game actions and the boards not changing
 
is hidden stockpile accomplishing anything in your list other than needless busywork

Like I know what the card can do, technically, but is it actually a worthwhile cog in that machine or are people just taking a bunch of game actions and the boards not changing

I haven’t taken this version for a spin irl yet, but I do have some experience in the past with it. It can certainly spin its own wheel forever, but it’s a nice piece with



and it obviously has a lot of game in mardu with the welders and the pia’s etc

In general, its nice to have a non-creature sac outlet. I think of it more like a fair bitterblossom than a sensei’s divining top. Spawning Pit covers similar ground which I also run...but the dynamic is different and I like them for different reasons.
 
By now a sensible person would've stopped fiddling and let their revisions soak in, but I'm in too deep. If I pull away now, I'll forget a lot of the intricacies I'm weaving, and I'm just enjoying exploring this creative space for the moment. I've done a lot of sample drafts over the last couple days just to get a feel for the distribution of themes and in draft decision-making. In a lot of ways the adventure cards mimic the multiple modes of cycling, and I'm really enjoying the flexibility cycling affords...so adding a couple more adventure cards seems like a good idea:

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Fumigate was leftover synergy for the Alhammarret's Archive deck. That's an easy swap. Cutting the Phoenix hurts a little more because I was pretty enchanted by the novelty of resurrecting it and Phoenix of the Ash together, but I also have temporarily cut Phoenix of the Ash to return an old favorite:

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I'm not sure if the phoenices will stay away for long, because the resiliency in red felt pretty great. For now, the red 3 drop section looks much more balanced, and I think will support a wider range of strategies. I've made a note to myself to think of the phoenixes anytime I see a red three drop and to consider whether I'd rather see one of them more.

With the addition of another control-based creature in white with realm-cloaked giant, I felt comfortable cutting Angel of Sanctions to make room to test:



Angel was initially included to fill a control void and to provide some spicy synergy with now cut Selesnya Eulogist. Alf has given me enough fuel for my imagination to give the split card a nod for now.

Out goes more Eulogist fuel....

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At this point, I'm realizing that a lot of my edits last night bolster combo and explosive sequencing. Maybe that's a net negative, but I can always hit CTRL+Z and undo what I've written here. Neheb offers some tantalizing prospects, but the thing that is intriguing me the most is how it mechanically ties aggro madness with reanimator and ramp...maybe you don't have to cycle that Yidaro, Wandering Monster after all, just cast it, etc. It also ties in land destruction and madness in a similar way to:



Wildfire Madness is one of my favorite decks in my cube, and having another piece that drives that home yet appeals to a wide range of other decks is pretty exciting. In general, I think my cube could use a little more in the midrange beef department....for that reason Mindwrack Demon might be making an appearance soon.

Moved Scrapheap Scrounger to colorless and cut the errant 4th orzhov card Corpse Knight for:



Lose a little resiliency, gain a little. I want to see a little more aggro in the black decks, and I'm a big fan of the Champion. Anything that incentivizes attacking is always welcomed. There's enough off color fixing in the Triomes and fetching to make me feel comfortable in folks running scrounger off an incidental splash.

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I'm not sure how I forgot Memory Jar. My sneak/cheat decks have plenty of weapons outside of Vat. Pretty easy cut.

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No longer under the thumb of Dreadhorde Arcanist's design constraints, I can now be a little more flexible with my discard suite, and the importance of exiling the card is at an all-time high.

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Blue's spells was having a lot of congestion, and I was noticing that some decks were going to have a hard time actually casting spells and impacting the board. You can't always just cycle away everything...you occasionally have to cast something to trigger that Young Pyromancer or Monastery Mentor. Commit is a little more clunky in the absence of Torrential Gearhulk. Testing Sidisi's Faithful, because I see some potential in blue's contribution to the sacrifice theme.

Slots currently in question:


Currently under consideration:



Thanks for reading!
 
Trying to squeeze in that memory jar I left out, and finally need to address having one too many orzhov cards...

Cut one:


(unburial rites stays)

I’m leaning towards knight, but I really like the combo edge it brings to the orzhov sac/recursion deck
I'd cut doom foretold. Bad Stax is not really where I'd want to be with a gold card. Corpse Knight has always played really well for me and I think it's one of the cards that makes the Orzhov recursion decks work. I haven't tested Hidden Stockpile, but I'd imagine a sac outlet that also functions as a stream of creatures is good in an aristocrats deck, especially if theres artifact stuff in the format.


This seems like a strange chop to me. Flamewake Phoenix is a great card in the Bloodrage Brawler discard aggro type strategy. It also plays really well with the Wild Mongrel//Vengevine strategies possible in green. It even plays nicely with the Bonecrusher Giant it was cut for! I constantly find myself in a similar situation to you in terms of trying to find the suite for red three drops- that section has become insanely stacked over the last couple of years, so I can understand trying to find room for the new hotness. However, I think this card is probably worth trying to squeeze in, unlike it's ashy friend which is a bit broken. I'd play this over Magus of the Wheel or Anje's Ravager. Those cards are both good enablers for madness-y decks but aren't stellar in other strategies and have less build around potential. Pia Nalaar is a card I've actually been (reluctantly) considering cutting from my cube for a while, so I could also see her going for the Phoenix. Maybe that's incorrect, I'm not sure. I would suggest considering Bonecrusher Giant a burn spell and cutting a Volcanic Hammer variant, but you don't really run much burn so that does not seem wise to me at this time.

Currently under consideration:
I've played a bunch of these in the past and presently. Mardu Woe-Reaper is great, and will improve White Aggro decks immensely. Eidolon of Countless Battles is fine, but it doesn't seem like the type of card white decks in this format really want. Mindwrack Demon doesn't seem as good as your other black 4s from a synergy perspective and seems like it could become an auto pick if the format is slow enough. Void Beckoner is bad in basically every mode. Vivien's Arkbow is fine but if you want it for the discard outlet I think you'd be better of elsewhere. I'm cutting it soon. Harrow is fine but rampy decks are happier with normal Llanowar Elves//Paradise Druid type cards. Harrow, by contrast, only slots comfortably into a "lands" deck.

Overall, there's some sweet upgrades here. You're doing nice work!
 
I'd cut doom foretold. Bad Stax is not really where I'd want to be with a gold card. Corpse Knight has always played really well for me and I think it's one of the cards that makes the Orzhov recursion decks work. I haven't tested Hidden Stockpile, but I'd imagine a sac outlet that also functions as a stream of creatures is good in an aristocrats deck, especially if theres artifact stuff in the format.

Interesting. I admittedly haven't seem Doom Foretold in action yet, but I've been assuming it was pretty good. The nontoken clause seems like a nice build-around, and helps to insure that you snag a couple of your opponent's more threatening permanents. The enchantment was settling a small issue I was having with white's contribution to stax in Orzhov. I run Cataclysm which often wants to go into a very different deck than Death Cloud and Rankle, Master of Pranks. Foretold with Restoration Specialist as well as the abundance of tokens in White seemed like a pretty elegant solution. I'm interested to hear other's thoughts for or against it.




I could see cutting one of
 
There’s always these guys for supporting WB stax... You may be running some of them already


I love the orbs, but my format is moving further away from that brand of magic. But trust me, I’ve definitely thought about how insane Urza, Lord High Artificer is with both

I have considered hokori from time to time....but it’s never quite made the cut.

I really like big Thalia, but the white three slot is so stacked. Little Thalia never felt as great with my cube’s creature to non-creature ratio

Obedience is a little too low powered

I’ve used these in the past to supplement the strategy:


Balance is the easily the most busted card that I’ve given serious consideration to. it’s so much fun
 
Carrying this over from the Midrange and You thread

How do folks feel about these cards within the context of this cube?



Did I list them correctly from strongest to weakest? It's been so long since I've run FOD and Student, I'm not sure where they stack up now.
 
i’m always a big fan of early game drops that become late game mana sinks. Figure and Warden are the most interesting to me, but Hexdrinker is probably the best.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
I do like em all but hexdrinker is a bit over the top. the window is small for interacting with that thing, and it's almost better as a 4--> 5 drop than on 1
 
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