Another utility land update. Kabira out, refuges in.
Jason Waddell's Cube
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Red aggro obviously took a hit in the lifegain update, and I'm contemplating bringing this bad boy back in:
I am running Kavu Predator, but it's only been in one draft. I don't think it got played, but one guy had RG Punishing Fire / Grove ramp deck online. Being able to deal 4 damage on a whim was pretty awesome. There's a lot of incidental lifegain floating around currently, so I imagine Kavu Predator is reasonable. Will keep an eye on it though.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
FWIW, I've played vortex in a lot of games where I ended up losing 
Hi Jason, I've just recently been reading your articles and they're great. I'm trying to put together a Utility Lands Draft section, and I noticed that your current list looks pretty different from the one in the article. For example, the mana fixers are gone. Could you give a brief explanation of these changes?
Hey, great question. What I found was that the mana fixing was being taken really highly, and it wasn't balanced correctly in terms of creating a nice tension between taking fixing and taking lands that do things. I still have some fixing, but it is of decidedly lower power level. I feel like now there's a more dynamic choice in terms of which land to take, and you no longer see drafters just automatically snapping up the fixing lands.
I may have to do something about that issue here, too. I initially thought that Karplusan Forest and friends were enough weaker than fetchlands & shocklands to make the utility draft interesting, but even as such, the first round usually involves automatically reaching for the requisite fixing.
Laz
Developer
The only fixing I have remaining in my Utility Draft pile are the Panoramas, and they are seem on the right level, sometimes helping finalise mana bases, and sometimes simply being passed over.
I have been having an issue with ETB tapped lands in the utility draft, because they often seem to be traps, worse than a basic lands in the decks that include them, simply because they throw off the curve and dilute the number of fetch-able lands. This is a particular issue in Red. I mean, compare how awesome the White lands are to the Red ones when considering an aggressive style of deck. Thoughts/feelings?
I have been having an issue with ETB tapped lands in the utility draft, because they often seem to be traps, worse than a basic lands in the decks that include them, simply because they throw off the curve and dilute the number of fetch-able lands. This is a particular issue in Red. I mean, compare how awesome the White lands are to the Red ones when considering an aggressive style of deck. Thoughts/feelings?
Wait, which white lands are awesome?
Laz
Developer
The mere fact that things like Flagstones of Trokair and Eiganjo Castle enter the battlefield untapped means that you can afford to add them to an aggressive deck without too much thought. The castle provides situational value in protecting your Isamaruor Thalia (or, heaven forbid, Geist of Saint Traft), and Flagstones plays nicely with Cataclysm (or, although I know you don't play it, Armageddon), yet these two lands are essentially Plains most of the time. You don't need to consider whether adding them will hurt your deck or not, as they will almost always be pure upside (Barring the minor exposure to Wasteland, or diluting fetches).
The red lands on the other hand, require a lot more consideration, as they are not essentially Mountains with a situational upside, instead, having these lands over a Mountain may actually hurt your deck. Barbarian Ring has a fairly obvious downside, and you have to consider whether your deck is fast enough, and needs the Shock enough, to be able to afford to take even more damage from lands. Likewise, playing Ghitu Encampment over a Mountain has some pretty obvious curve considerations, and a 2/1 first strike doesn't seem like an awesome reward for ETB tapped.
I think my main point is that for many builds of Red, playing a red utility land is actually worse than playing a Mountain, while the White lands for aggressive White decks are basically all upside over playing a Plains, and the reason for this is ETB tapped.
The red lands on the other hand, require a lot more consideration, as they are not essentially Mountains with a situational upside, instead, having these lands over a Mountain may actually hurt your deck. Barbarian Ring has a fairly obvious downside, and you have to consider whether your deck is fast enough, and needs the Shock enough, to be able to afford to take even more damage from lands. Likewise, playing Ghitu Encampment over a Mountain has some pretty obvious curve considerations, and a 2/1 first strike doesn't seem like an awesome reward for ETB tapped.
I think my main point is that for many builds of Red, playing a red utility land is actually worse than playing a Mountain, while the White lands for aggressive White decks are basically all upside over playing a Plains, and the reason for this is ETB tapped.
Wizards needs to print more good lands. My blue section (Faerie Conclave, Halimar Depths, Shelldock Isle) is always cleaned out by the end of the second round, while the Jund colour lands go unclaimed. The colours aren't particularly well-balanced right now.
Laz has a great point about tap lands being traps. I've seen a lot of my more novice players jamming in every last utility land they can, at the expense of their mana development, when they should be running basic Swamp or Forest. I've already cut down the number of utility lands from four to three per player to compensate, but aside from that, I'm not sure of any additional solutions.
Laz has a great point about tap lands being traps. I've seen a lot of my more novice players jamming in every last utility land they can, at the expense of their mana development, when they should be running basic Swamp or Forest. I've already cut down the number of utility lands from four to three per player to compensate, but aside from that, I'm not sure of any additional solutions.
Sometimes I run four in my decks and sometimes I run three. Still don't think it's my job to keep the players from messing up that decision.
CML
Contributor
Yeah, with the funsies land draft we've had problems fetching for basics. Now the consistent manabases are in my opinion an enormous part of what makes our cubes better than other people's, and the effect the funsies lands have on the games is incredible, but I'm not sure how to a) make this fail-to-find not happen (since 45-card decks didn't work out as we spend a lot of picks on, well, the manabase) and b) how to expedite the process, the land draft just takes forever and annoys people who are new to the Cube. Moving it to the end was a start ...
I also wouldn't waste a slot on Flagstones or Ganj Castle
The G/B lands are really good, U is also awesome (academy ruins) and W is OK (who doesn't want a Karakas?), it's the Red ones that all suck
Flagstones has been fun in the new whiteness:
Yes, essentially. There is some wiggle room, but I tried to keep the basic dynamic as the main cube ones being "interesting to pick versus a spell". I could see somebody doing it differently, but so far the decision dynamic has worked pretty well.
Other than Wasteland, is there anything that crosses this threshold? I just demoted Gavony Township and Treetop Village from the main list to the utility draft, because while they're powerful when included in the right decks, I noticed they weren't being picked over actual spells. Which leaves Kessig Wolf Run as the last non-fixing land in the main cube now.
Testing these changes: [test cards in brackets]
Unearth [Phyrexian Reclamation]
Doom Blade [Shriekmaw]
Hero's Downfall [Slaughter]
Double Shriekmaw to make Phyrexian Reclamation more appealing. BW lifegrind here we come.
Unearth [Phyrexian Reclamation]
Doom Blade [Shriekmaw]
Hero's Downfall [Slaughter]
Double Shriekmaw to make Phyrexian Reclamation more appealing. BW lifegrind here we come.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I'm gonna miss unearth Godspeed sir
Godspeed sir
I'm gonna miss unearth
Rather lose Entomb?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I would, but my cube is bigger so it's less consistently useful
Don't get me wrong, it's probably the right call, but this kind of swap clearly illustrates how I could never go down to 360
Don't get me wrong, it's probably the right call, but this kind of swap clearly illustrates how I could never go down to 360
In:
Out:
Supports paying life and Zombies? Hello there old friend.
Out:
Supports paying life and Zombies? Hello there old friend.