Card/Deck Low Power Card Spotlight

[Onderzeeboot]

Any opinion on this weird aura? I can't really find anyone talking about it anywhere, and it looks pretty interesting. (Maybe I just have awful taste)

I've played with it a ton back in the day, putting it on the perfect target...

 

[RavebornMuse]

Do these fit anywhere? How do we feel about them in a bounceland format? Too weak?

 

[CML]

Do these fit anywhere? How do we feel about them in a bounceland format? Too weak?

These would fit super-well in a garbage draft format and given how fun of a format that is we should have more discussion on it

Not backdraft but maybe that's fun too?

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Night terrors just looks bad, though maw of the mire I could see being reasonable. You would want to run only one copy of such an effect in your black section, as its kind of narrow. Really more for a midrange match, where the lifegain can be relevant, and the game pace is slow enough that mana harassment is still relevant.

I would be more excited about



But you could sell me on the lifegain maybe.

 

[RavebornMuse]

Night terrors just looks bad, though maw of the mire I could see being reasonable. You would want to run only one copy of such an effect in your black section, as its kind of narrow. Really more for a midrange match, where the lifegain can be relevant, and the game pace is slow enough that mana harassment is still relevant.

I would be more excited about

Grip of Desolation

But you could sell me on the lifegain maybe.

The current project I'm working on looks like it's often going to be about grindy midrangefests, where I figured the life bump and setting an opponent back on their mana development would make it solid enough. I considered Grip, but I thought it would probably be landing way too late. I do like the exile, though.. Maybe that's really where I should be putting this effect, if I want it at all. Thanks!

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

It might be fine than. If you're hitting a bounce, 5 mana to blow up (effectively) two lands and gain 4 life is good. Its also costed high enough where it doesn't wreak people's game.

What was the thought process behind night terrors? I ruled it out on the basis that at 3cc, players would interpret it as an on-curve play, and view it as not being competitive with more impactful 3cc plays.

 

[RavebornMuse]

It might be fine than. If you're hitting a bounce, 5 mana to blow up (effectively) two lands and gain 4 life is good. Its also costed high enough where it doesn't wreak people's game.

What was the thought process behind night terrors? I ruled it out on the basis that at 3cc, players would interpret it as an on-curve play, and view it as not being competitive with more impactful 3cc plays.

I suppose I was over-valuing the exile, since there's a fair bit of recursion I'm looking at packing. I'm also kind of off 1cmc discard effects, so I was curious how high up the curve that could be pushed.

 

[Aston]

They both seem pretty much unplayable unless your power is far below that of retail draft. From what I remember, Night Terrors was a card you were unhappy to play and Maw was a card that you never played.

I ruled it out on the basis that at 3cc, players would interpret it as an on-curve play, and view it as not being competitive with more impactful 3cc plays.

Could you explain what you mean by this? Maybe I'm falling into the trap you're describing but where else on the curve do you think it "should" be played?

 

[ahadabans]

3 is probably one too many for that type of discard. You can get the same effect in Castigate for 2 (albeit two colors). And for 3 you can get a 2 for 1 (with one being random) in Stupor. Neither of those makes most rare lists either. So Night Terrors feels pretty low power to me.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Could you explain what you mean by this? Maybe I'm falling into the trap you're describing but where else on the curve do you think it "should" be played?

Basically, you look at the card and you say to yourself "it costs 3 mana, so it is intended to be played on turn 3" when in actuality you're supposed to hold it, and the card looks and plays worse than it should.

Maybe you wasn't listening mate but maybe I wasn't being clear enough. Impulses aint usually turn 2 plays unless you is got a combo you are frantically searching for or really need your anger of the gods.

Impulse is a turn 2 play the same way brainstorm is a turn 1 play.

Play impulse once your plan has started to have legs and you have some extra mana to spend on one of your turns, I know you're gonna we've all put a lot of emphasis on bulking up the 1-2-3 slots at the expense of 4-5-6.

Now [Turn 2 Grisly Salvage -> Turn 3 Tasigur + Removal Spell] is great but thats a special case.

The 3cc slot is super competitive, and the point where a lot of important cards with powerful utility start to come online. There is 0 chance, in any sort of format thats escalating in the way that I am conditioned to formats escalating (whether high or low power) that this card is going to see play.

But I don't know what drew him to the card in the first place, and there are a couple of fringe scenarios I can imagine, that would take him there that might be interesting to discuss. One of those is that he's imagining players to hold the card for a later point in the game, and there is some great value in targeted discard hitting, say, turns 6-7.

If thats the type of play we are discussing, than my analysis is twisted, because I'm assuming its intended as a turn 3 play.

 

[Aston]

I disagree that you're meant to hold it. In my opinion, targetted discard gets much worse the later in the game you get, when players naturally have fewer cards in hand to hit. I think you'd want to try and play them as early as possible when your opponent's hand is fullest and you're more likely to hit something relevant. What's your opinion on Thoughtseize as a turn 1 play?

I also think the comparison with Impulses is misguided. An Impulse on turn 10 when both players are hellbent is very impactful, where a targetted discard spell is a blank. The two aren't analogous at all.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I disagree that you're meant to hold it. In my opinion, targetted discard gets much worse the later in the game you get, when players naturally have fewer cards in hand to hit. I think you'd want to try and play them as early as possible when your opponent's hand is fullest and you're more likely to hit something relevant. What's your opinion on Thoughtseize as a turn 1 play?

I also think the comparison with Impulses is misguided. An Impulse on turn 10 when both players are hellbent is very impactful, where a targetted discard spell is a blank. The two aren't analogous at all.

Yes well, I wasn't actually making an argument one way or the other, and was just looking for clarification from him, so I think we're ok here.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I've got a long-term project for a cube where every player starts with an emblem that reads "Spells you cast cost less to cast." I'm (very) slowly populating it with all manner of commons, uncommons, and even rares, that would be awesome at one mana less, though never (blatantly) breaking existing casting cost conventions. So Day of Judgment would be a no-no at , but Ainok Bond-Kin is a wonderful addition at . I think both Night Terrors and Maw of the Mire would be very fine in that cube. I just might add both in fact!

 

[Chris Taylor]

That will be a very interesting cube to populate in that everything HAS to cost 1 less. I wonder if at some point I'll hear you lamenting there isn't a shittier version of a card you like

 

[Chriskool]

This card has really impressed me in MMA3 midrange as a source of card advantage. I imagine it could fit in a Penny Pincher power level

 

[Salmo2]

Yeah Pyrewild Shaman wasn't bad when I tested it. It didn't last too long in my cube, but I think it's a good peasant option and definitely can perform in the decks that want it well enough to at least not feel too underpowered.

 

[ahadabans]

I found him a tad slow. But I would agree Penny Pincher power level it could have a home.

 

[whobetta]

I have him in my low powered multiplayer list... the ability to generate some card "advantage" in theory is nice. but the few times he has been drafted he hasn't been "abused" like most might think. 3 mana is quite a lot and usually you are trying to do a lot of different things and so the decision to bring him back or not winds up being much more difficult than initially thought.

I still have him in there, especially with some of the newer Amonkhet cards that can trigger off his Bloodrush discard ability.... so we'll see if he can find himself a new home in a fun archetype.

 

[RavebornMuse]

How do we feel about these new enchantments? I've been seriously thinking of working them into my list, but they feel a little hit and miss. In particular: the blue ones look solid (especially the Cartouche), but cut into instant/sorcery space the pair would prefer for things like Baral, Chief of Compliance or Rise from the Tides, the white trial could easily be any of a number of other temp-anthems (assuming you even WANT that), and the green trial seems extremely lackluster, even next to Mouth // Feed. Then you get to black, which has a very solid trial, but a swingy cartouche... It's all over the place!

That said, it does seem weird not to run the full cycle - I'm typically for breaking cycles, but since these are actually a very cooperative bunch, picking and choosing seems.. incorrect. I also worry about drafters feeling cheated if, say, I ran the blue cartouche and not the blue trial, or the black trial, but not the black cartouche, etc.

Thoughts?

 

[whydirt]

If I ran them, I'd want to double up on the cartouches.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I'm kind of imagining a super durdle environment where casting and recasting low power enchantments to gain incremental value in the mid-late game is an engine in itself.

You know, a format where mark of eviction is good, or dowsing shaman. Kind of making me want the honden cycle too...

 

[RavebornMuse]

I've taken a long, hard look into the abyss, and Sram, Senior Edificer, Graceblade Artisan, and Bruna, Light of Alabaster collectively stared back; I just don't think I'm willing to warp my environment so strongly towards auras when there's still so few payoffs for them. It was my first draft of my new cube and I just couldn't get it off the ground. Although now that I think about it, maybe the cartouche/trial cycles, as well as the small few other spicy new auras we've gotten lately, can finally get there. As a theme centered in , it cuts into valuable "instant-and-sorcery-matter" / territory, but if a 5/5 vigilant flier for 6 is an acceptable top-end for your list, then it could have legs (or wings - both, even). I just wish it had room to breathe in a third color; bleeding more cleanly into or would be great without having to resort to Blightcaster and Yavimaya Enchantress..

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

I think there might be a lot of potential with them, but are kind of format warping. They've got a lot of overlap with

White and blue return to hand effects
Blink
Prowess
Heroic
Constellation
Enchantress
Devotion (weakly)
Panharmonicon
Etc.
Sac permanent effects

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Green has some nice stuff in Theros with, at the very least, Boon Satyr and Eidolon of Blossoms being really solid for those decks.

 

[Golvin]

I just added it to my cube. Not sure if it will stay. (Really wish it was 1U instead.) Anyways, I am playing around with the notion of a more open ended cycle theme in blue-black using Curator of Mysteries and Archfiend of Ifnir. Failing to actually cycle, there is still the option of looting - it is a large upgrade over Spirit Cairn (2/2 & generic mana).

Thought and opinions?