Sets (MID) Innistrad: Midnight Hunt

i love a good blink discussion, it’s got so many knobs and dials to tune in for the designer. for reference, my blink package:

Charming Prince
Flickerwisp
Restoration Angel
Ephemerate
Soulherder


Then i see recursion to the battlefield as an intersection with blink (and black) which also allows sac effects like the new Cathar Commando (staying on topic!) to get the blink treatment:

Sevinne's Reclamation
Unearth
Reanimate
Priest of Fell Rites


the new Can’t Stay Away will fit nicely here if i can find space for it ofc

And to tie it all together, i run a couple customs in UB that i call “black blink” which instantly sacrifices and returns the creature rather than exiling and returning. Basically a colorshifted Restoration Angel and a colorshifted (and discounted) Momentary Blink.
 
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Do I run Charming Prince and Soulherder though? ;)

There is also a support aspect (Barrin, for example), and how the decks want to come together. I incentivize UW as a tempo-aggro style deck so stuffing in higher cost ETB targets isn't always what the decks want to be doing. I'm sure a blink deck can come together in my format (I do have some spicy top end ETBs too), but it's not an archetype I put explicit thought into. Hence my reasoning for considering removal of some of these cards. If I'm not putting conscious effort into maintaining an archetype, why do I have these things floating around? Soulherder is kinda just there for someone to tinker with, not to support what I'm doing....

I also don't run grief lol
 
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Thank you thread for reminding me to put in Emiel the Blessed into my list, I picked it up to be a signpost for the newly-supported blink archetype.

Back to Midnight Hunt, I was re-reading Wtwlf123's always-thoughtful set (p)review for the set, and one thing that I really like about how he does these articles are the ranking element. For a lesser writer, it'd be easy to consider the take-away sections listing the size of cube that he would factor inclusion in as reductive. But he takes the incredible effort as he goes through to provide context, to note which kinds of cubes may have a higher preference for certain cards/effects, etc. and I find his reasoning to be some of the most thoughtful. However, I was even more interested than usual when he laid out his ranking system like so:

I base my rankings not on what the “best” card is in a particular set (the “best” card in this set is probably Consider) but rather my ranking is based on: A) the average size of cube the card could realistically see play in, and B) the card’s likely tenure in the cube. When a stellar 2-power 1-drop comes out (one that’s one of the best ones available to it in its respective color) it’s going to bump out the worst card in slot, and it will likely have a relatively long stent in the cube. For example, if this is the #3 or #4 best red 2-power 1-drop, for example, and you want to play ~7 or more of them in your cube, that means a card like this Pit Fighter will be in the cube until they print 3 or 4 more 2-power 1-drops …in red …with upsides …that are better than this card, before it gets booted. And that’s simply going to take a long time to happen. Why? Because this card is good.

I love this explanation. The two-pronged approach to what the ranking of the card is not quite what he considers the "best" card, a metric he doesn't lay out but gives a very telling example of in the form of Consider. For the audience he writes for, these metrics are solid, and I wouldn't recommend a change. It made me wonder, though, from my POV, what are the "best" cards in the set? If I were to try to do a "power ranking", what metrics would I use?

Typically, when making decisions in cube, I look towards the community consensus as the default to work off of. I feel no compulsion to match the average cube, but it's a helpful jumping off point to look at what the most-played 2-drop creatures in green are when I notice a weakness in one on my list, and using data from Cube Cobra in this way is something I do obsessively. Again, I end up foraging my own path more often than not, but the community averages give me something to argue with when the forums are quiet.

But when I think about my own "power ranking", when I think about the headline cube card from an old set, it's not "the most popular", "the most powerful in slot", or "the least likely to get replaced with the next set's hotness", though these are all compelling. I think my power ranking would be based on:

1. To what extent does it enable new archetypes and/or bolster existing strategies?

2. If you pick it early, how and to what extent does it change your evaluation of other cards for the rest of the draft?

3. To what extent does it contribute to interesting (fair) gameplay?


With this, the first point, enabling new strategies, is certainly the most important to me. For example I’m super stoked for Augur of Autumn and imagine it’ll last a long time in my cube, and nails point #3 in particular, and does ok with #2 by slightly nudging you to pick up creatures with different powers (more realistically, just to pick up a lot of creatures), but it’s pretty much in the same vein as other cards that are already in cube, and the redundancy she provides doesn’t help a deck get there that otherwise struggled to come together. She ranks in the middle of my 22 MID inclusions by these criteria, even though, yes, love her and expect her to have good staying power.



So with that context, here's my top 5 for Innistrad Midnight Hunt, according to the above metrics:



5. Intrepid Adversary

Finally, a cubable anthem? As they say on TikTok: let me explain.

Celestial Crusader is a card I’ve long-loved and was in cube for its first year of inception, around a decade ago now. I loved the combat trick part of it, but it cost one mana too much for the effect, only helped white creatures, and really didn’t want to attack with its peers. So back then, cards like Glorious Anthem were better and then we got Spear of Heliod (!) that added value on top of that.

But in the last 7 years or so, even the Spear has dropped off most cube lists. A dedicated anthem is simply not practical enough for its own slot, which is wild considering how tokens have become more and more ubiquitous. Creatures have become too powerful on their own to not need a third-party effect. Benalish Marshal was the exact card I had been hoping for, but with untenable mana expectations. Force of Virtue was close, but either way to pay the cost is too high.

Enter Intrepid Adversary. It’s an on-curve lifelinking creature with a scalable anthem attached. If this creature only had the 4-mana 4/2 mode available, it would be worth serious consideration, but giving it a 6-mana overrun and a 2-mana 3/1 lifelinking out makes this Adversary the most valuable of the cycle, sure, but also a big kick in the butt towards Wx tokens, aggressive strategies, and even most midrange decks. It’s an enabler, role-player, bomb, and a race-evener all in one.

tl;dr finally, a cubable anthem effect




4. Moonveil Regent

A card like this is where this approach to ranking cube cards for a set is more compelling to me. Would I play Moonveil Regent if I had a much smaller cube? Probably couldn’t justify it under 500 cards, to be honest. Is it in the top half of my red 4-drops by most metrics? Not quite. But was there a card with this kind of effect before that was competitive with the rest of my cube list? No!

The Regent replaces Experimental Frenzy for me, which was exclusively a curve-topper for Rx decks to get more gas once they were hellbent. Not only does Regent play that role just as well, but it enables fun graveyard shenanigans for all sorts of archetypes, gives RG and similar midrange decks a fair way for both big hits in the air while generating card advantage, and lets me go off with my 5 color piles in a satisfying way.

I do dismay taking a card with a major downside out of my cube somewhat, as there are fewer and fewer worth justifying these days (and kind of wish the Regent didn’t have the “may” for that reason), but Moonveil Regent is everything I had dreamed Avaricious Dragon would be. Neat.

tl;dr Moonveil Regent is an effecient card drawing/rummaging monster that fills a unique niche in cube and enables my worst 5c fantasies.




3. Falkenrath Pit Fighter

Wtwlf’s top pick from the set earned her gold metal for a reason! This dominates on my third point, providing interesting and fair gameplay by either being a (surprisingly rare) 2/1 for R or a way to desperately dig through your deck for a more relevant way to push through damage when the board’s a mess. Sure, mono red didn’t necessarily need any more help, but Rx and Xr aggressive and midrange decks of all sorts benefit from a first turn play that can feed a graveyard or burn through your deck later.

tl;dr in practice, we got a split card with fuse of a 2/1 for R and Thrill of Possibility, and one that my cube really benefits from in nearly all red decks.




2. Cathar Commando

Not much needs to be said that hasn’t been already, it’s a mono-white Qasali Pridemage with flash, an effect that’s been much needed and allows white to have a Disenchant effect that matches better with its typical game plans. Wx aggro decks will no longer get stonewalled as easily by a single enchantment or artifact, or get stuck with a dead card in their hand. Or, at least, the player who drafts and draws the Commando will be much better off.

tl;dr A long-standing ask from R&D (or studio X or whatever) has been fulfilled!




1. Deathbonnet Sprout

The inspiration for this list has arrived! It’s no exaggeration to call this green’s Dragon's Rage Channeler, and it does for Gx graveyard decks what Hedron Crab does in blue without being anemic or a bad late-game draw. Early game, this cute little dude will fill up your graveyard for you, something that my cube tries to optimize towards any chance it gets, and like DRC, it grows with your graveyard. Unlike DRC, you don’t get the option to keep cards on top or “go off” with a bunch of spells in one turn, but the backside of the Sprout grows every turn, and there's some fun +1/+1 counter synergies, so yeah, it's not going to take over Modern any time soon but at least you don't have to attack every turn with your mushroom.

Green’s most-played one-drops are mostly mana dorks. This isn’t terribly controversial, even objectively weak dorks like Boreal Druid are fairly common (and not without good reason!). Exceptions are limited to the aggressive, exemplified best by Hexdrinker, and super-specific support like land-matters king Elvish Reclaimer. But green does not lean terribly aggressive, and so there was a big gap, by my reckoning, in a versatile multi-tool in a green one-drop, one that worked in aggressive decks, sure, but that also contributed meaningfully to other strategies. Only now, in Q3 of 2021, do we finally have our champion, Deathbonnet Sprout.

Experiment One and Pelt Collector will grow faster than the Sprout in most cases on turn 1, but not by much, and they’re typically worse off the top. But this ranking isn’t about objective power, we’re here to talk about what a card brings to the cube experience, from my own personal Fairmax perspective. And from that POV, Deathbonnet Sprout holds its own in most existing green decks, and its self-milling enables lots of shenanigans I can’t wait to explore.

tl;dr There weren't any green one drops that are meaningful, interesting, and meet my cube's baseline for power across multiple strategies...until now.


Honorable Mentions:

 
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I like your metrics a lot better than wtwlf's. His cube isn't in any way designed for synergies, so it's understandable how he would rank things. But it makes his work a little less useful for a lot of us. For instance he doesn't have a negative multiplier for things that are too good, which makes sense for his power max setting. Something like Intrepid Adversary ranks very low on my list, because it checks at least two boxes of being too good without working with any synergies I care about.

He also ranks with a singleton-only mindset. His number 10 is borrowed time, for example. This is nowhere near my radar, because you can just use better versions like the actual card O-ring and if you need more, double it up. It's a very mediocre card (compared to other versions of the effect), and he includes it because of massive size + singleton dogma.

My list, in no particular order (and very quickly slapped together), based roughly on your metrics, is probably:

Some of these, like Deluge are firmly in the "bolster existing archetypes" department, while others like Slogurk are very unique effects in MTG that can instantly shift you to a different deckplan.
 
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I admittedly glossed over Moonveil Regent, but it's a pretty interesting effect even if you are only casting mono-colored spells. Discard and hellbent are themes I support, and this is fun with things like Flame Jab which are already in the graveyard.

It seems less good than Experimental Frenzy, but better than Avaricious Dragon.....which might be a sweet spot for my cube? It's also 4 power for Flamewake Phoenix

I think I'm going to try it out.
 
He doesn't have a negative multiplier for things that are too good for instance, which makes sense for his power max setting. Something like Intrepid Adversary ranks very low on my list, because it hits at least two boxes of being too good without working with any synergies I care about.

Yeah, this is my biggest issue with the methodology. Like you said, it's really a matter of goal and target audience, and your point here about a ceiling really rings true -- Intrepid Adversary is a very strong card - one of the best in the set in a vacuum - but I'm including 22+ cards and scarcely looked twice at it for the reasons you described.

Re: your list, Diregraf Rebirth is a card that I really need to find a cut for, as painful as it will be. There's nothing I adore more than cards that love to sit in your graveyard, and it's going to feel incredibly satisfying to cast it twice in long, grindy games. I think I'd need a bit more lands / lands in graveyard support for Slogurk, though, as neat as the card is. If I had double sets of fetches, it'd make sense for sure, but even then, I worry it's not enough fetches for a 720 cube to support these kinds of cards meaningfully -- I had to take out Ramunap Excavator because no one was able to get more than one fetch per draft with it! Doubling that wouldn't quite cut it either, at that point.
 
I think I'd need a bit more lands / lands in graveyard support for Slogurk, though, as neat as the card is. If I had double sets of fetches, it'd make sense for sure, but even then, I worry it's not enough fetches for a 720 cube to support these kinds of cards meaningfully -- I had to take out Ramunap Excavator because no one was able to get more than one fetch per draft with it! Doubling that wouldn't quite cut it either, at that point.
what this sounds like to me is that you need to go up to 4-6 sets of fetches
:mp:
 
Fetches aren't my most common Excavator targets, generally. Self-mill and draw-discard strats dump a lot of "regular" lands too. I also run cycling lands in my basics box. Slogurk is the type of effect that I think works better in small cubes, where consistency can be a bit higher.
 
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I always feel so inferior to everyone else in these spoiler threads, because I don't have strong, clearly-explainable metrics for cube inclusions. Part of this is that my cubes tend to have wildly different design ethos. For example, I'm making the following swaps in the Capitalism Cube:

Excavation Technique -> Fateful Absence
Battle at the Bridge -> Foul Play
Silkweaver Elite -> Briarbridge Tracker
Reclusive Artificer -> Storm Skreelix
Shadrix Silverquill -> Can't Stay Away
Dragonlord Atarka -> Croaking Counterpart (edited to be able to copy any permanent)

I'm still looking at whether or not I have any Blue or Red cards that I want to replace, and I'm planning on swapping Velomachus Lorehold for Eloise, Nephalia Sleuth when cubecobra finally acknowledges her existence.

In contrast, however, Afternoon Delight barely overlaps with that list — it wants some of those sweet flashback cards, sure, but it also wants Bloodthirsty Adversary as a sweet Goblin Dark-Dwellers variant (I really should get back to messing around with that list — I'm something like six sets behind at this point...)

More broadly...



It sings to me. I want it to be cube-able.

It probably isn't.

EDIT: I probably just want Geistblast with a cheaper front-end, but still...
 
Preface: I skimmed most of this.

I dislike wtwlf's analysis as well because it's so one dimensional. "Good card is a good card." Wow, thanks for the insight! There's no nuance to it whatsoever. Admittedly, I haven't looked at it for years, so maybe he's developed his process, but it immediately bored me to death when I look at it previously.

For Excavator, I'm running self mill stuff in addition to Ash Barrens, Evolving Wilds, and Terramorphic Expanse. Still strong and seems right for the kind of game play I'm after.
 
Preface: I skimmed most of this.

I dislike wtwlf's analysis as well because it's so one dimensional. "Good card is a good card." Wow, thanks for the insight! There's no nuance to it whatsoever. Admittedly, I haven't looked at it for years, so maybe he's developed his process, but it immediately bored me to death when I look at it previously.
Nah, it's mostly the same. I'll open a new review every once in a blue moon, but I stopped paying it any real mind years ago. Appreciate what he's provided to the cube community over the years, and I certainly used his cube as a starter template years ago, but I straight up don't think he's a very good designer with his metrics for inclusion.

There's no real exploration or development to his environment, just a very strict overview of whether X better than Y for Z role at # cube size. If yes then replace X for Y, if no then ignore the card. It's like the complete opposite of how the majority of us approach cube design around here, even at wildly different power levels. That said, I do appreciate a deeper dive into card inclusions more along the lines of @MilesOfficial's post which give a deeper insight into the designer's thought process.
 
Guys I need your help with a decision: Should I include some of the Day/Night Werewolves or not?

— I really hate the Day/Night change to the Werewolf transform mechanic. It doesn’t explain on the cards what the ability does. If you have the token, you get most of the explanation but not all of it.

— I really love the showcase frame for this set’s werewolf transform cards. I also want most different frames in my cube because I like the diversity and the feeling of “That frame is from the Mystical Archive from a set that had extra focus on instants and sorceries” etc.

— I like the way the mechanic works. It’s almost like the old transform and I like that play pattern. It gives the players a mini game within the game.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Guys I need your help with a decision: Should I include some of the Day/Night Werewolves or not?
Assuming there are cards that you would want to run if this weren't a concern, I'd say yes

— I really hate the Day/Night change to the Werewolf transform mechanic. It doesn’t explain on the cards what the ability does. If you have the token, you get most of the explanation but not all of it.
I think the versions with reminder text (If a player casts no spells during their own turn, it becomes night next turn.) work fine. While the token has the actual line of rules text "Then transform all daybound cards", I don't think it's a huge leap to figure out that this card with a back side might transform when that happens.

— I really love the showcase frame for this set’s werewolf transform cards. I also want most different frames in my cube because I like the diversity and the feeling of “That frame is from the Mystical Archive from a set that had extra focus on instants and sorceries” etc.
This is were I'm wary, since the showcase werewolves don't have that helpful reminder text. There's a few cards with this frame that don't have the daybound/nightbound mechanic, but if they don't fit your themes, I'm not sure where to go next.

A possible remedy would be to make "proxies" using card conjurer, and make copies of the werewolves you want but with actual reminder text.
Hell, maybe even expanded reminder text that shows that this card will transform based on day/night! Best of both worlds!
Or make them work like old werewolves if you need to, if you're cubing Moonmist (Please do not cube moonmist, fogs are not great)

— I like the way the mechanic works. It’s almost like the old transform and I like that play pattern. It gives the players a mini game within the game.
This is big. I think I (and maybe others) may have overreacted to the strixhaven/kaldheim DFCs.

Honestly I'm never including something like The Omenkeel in my cube because it's ice cauldron levels of insane, but I'm less sure that it then follows to paint all dual faced cards with the same brush.

The pathways and Jwari Disruption certainly don't carry the same mental load as The Omenkeel or even Halvar, god of Battle, and longtime favorites like Search for Azcanta or Kytheon are even less taxing.

Having played with flip cards in the past, all the way back to Mayor of Avabruk, I hear your complaint that people will have to de-sleeve cards during gameplay and during the draft to figure out what their cards do, and I can tell you: it does not matter.

What to play is affected by the front side, and honestly, werewolves are such strict upgrades from front to back that you're not going to punt by flipping them over.

The non-day/nightbound cards are quests. Players are excited about the process and reward of flipping delver of secrets or thing in the ice that these cards stand out in our minds AS the back side. How many times has you or a friend referred to delver as a "one mana 3/2"

I should be the poster child for not including these. My cube is 25% custom cards, why bother with this extra complexity?
Because they're great. These cards give you a goal and pay you off in ways no other card could. You've seen people make single sided versions of some of these cards and they're clunky as hell.

It's not that bad.
 
Thank you both.

Chris even with reminder text it doesn’t explain three things: The first one you mentioned. That the card transforms. The second one is that the cards enter already transformed if it is already night. The third one is quite minor but it is the fact that the cards cannot be transformed by any other cards that might transform them.

I think I’ll run these six and maybe pull them out once they are leaving Standard/the most played Arena format.

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84BDE9EF-ED37-4DF7-BE5A-C768A8BF7F93.jpeg72925672-AB30-4491-8288-2AFB97534A0F.jpeg756032BE-F4D4-414E-9BC5-2B155E266BD3.jpeg91AFE7C2-A0DB-45AA-972B-6ADE40020C9A.jpeg

I could also listen to reason…but I am not going to do that. I am blinded by the frame <3 Especially on the back/night side.
 
They really are beautiful frames and I do like what some of the cards bring, but flipping back and forth and introducing a whole other element to keep track of is just such a turn off to me. I really don't want that for my drafters to deal with, especially when we only cube once in a blue moon as is. It's a shame because I do like certain designs like Poppet Stitcher, but I really don't want people to flip back and forth throughout a game.

It's part of why I shelved Energy for the long haul after a brief run despite loving the design of cards like Glint-Sleeve Siphoner; it's just such a hassle in paper. Same with all the ability counters in Ikoria or anything that uses weird special counters to track things, like Intrepid Adversary. I just prefer minimal "extracurriculars" that affect gameplay. I'm totally cool with deploying extra features during draft to improve the overall gameplay experience, but extra things to keep track of during actual games is just so tedious.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
I think cutting otherwise great cards because they're the only card that uses said mechanic in your environment is a missed opportunity. This sort of variety is a lot of why people start cubes in the first place.

Also come on, the counters on Intrepid Adversary are fine, they're right there on the card, it's no different than pentad prism.
 
I don't even know if they're otherwise great tbh. It's not like I don't play DFCs; I still run the likes of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Search for Azcanta. Those are worth it to me due to one time flipping and what they add to the overall gameplay. I'll also do it for various other mechanics that don't require additional gameplay upkeep.

I just don't feel the same for the majority of these night/day cards and especially because of the need for extra tracking of a brand new element that only affects a subset of cards. I was more open to it in the past when I started cubing, but I just don't want to deal with these logistics nowadays. It's just not worth it most of the time.

The difference between Adversary and Prism to me is that I can also end putting +1/+1 counters on the Adversary if I play something like a Thalia's Lieutenant or Felidar Retreat. I don't like having extra clutter for something insular like valor counters when they aren't relevant otherwise. If I had a specific type of cube then charge counters might be relevant with weird cards like Coretapper.

I just really really dislike counters or gameplay elements that require additional tracking. Like I totally should play Luminous Broodmoth in my Goad/Monarch focused Marisi, Breaker of the Coil Commander deck, but I just hate extra tracking.
 
Weird counter tracking I'm definitely not a fan of, especially when they can become mixed like described with valor and +1 counters. WotC is (was?) also not a fan of this, most famously with their general decision to not have +1 and -1 counters in the same sets.

Poppet Stitcher doesn't seem problematic at all to me, it's a 'may' transform that gives control to the player. What about the player-controlled flips turns you off from it? It seems like no more tedious of a choice than any repeatable "pick one" like Felidar Retreat.
 
Poppet Stitcher doesn't seem problematic at all to me, it's a 'may' transform that gives control to the player. What about the player-controlled flips turns you off from it? It seems like no more tedious of a choice than any repeatable "pick one" like Felidar Retreat.

Having to take the card out of the sleeve and flip it back and forth in grindier games. This one is way less annoying that day/night, but I'm probably still going to ignore it unless I hear rave reviews. I've pretty much avoided adding any new DFCs since Search for Azcanta 4 years ago.
 
Having to take the card out of the sleeve and flip it back and forth in grindier games. This one is way less annoying that day/night, but I'm probably still going to ignore it unless I hear rave reviews. I've pretty much avoided adding any new DFCs since Search for Azcanta 4 years ago.
I agree day/night is kind of ass to add because of reasons seen in the earlier pages of this thread, but a regular transform card like Poppet shouldn't be an issue if you're already willing to tolerate your drafters checking the backside when they draft it to make sure they know what it does.

No one should be taking it in and out of the sleeve during the game more than once unless they have OCD or something. Take it out once and flip it back and forth. Same amount of sleeve removal as other DFCs.
 
You know what, you guys are right about Poppet Stitcher. Definitely less annoying than the other DFCs in this set, I think my brain might have just shortcutted to this also being a Day/Night card rather than a completely different trigger that they control. I also just realized that the backside is an artifact which is semi-relevant every now and then in my environment. I'll probably end up picking one up to give it a run.
 
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...EQFnoECEYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw04meMU9H--LQ-6DaK8mn7x


Let's not talk like clear sleeves don't exist. Sleeving up a DFC in one of these and having a list card for the deck is the way to go, IMO.* So long as people aren't trying to absurdly spike the draft section, you can work with these just fine--draft the card, put the reminder card in your deck--and you're good to go.

Admittedly, it's definitely a bit more work, but it seems like there are only going to be more and more DFCs in the future, as WotC seems to be leaning into that space, so holding out against them purely on a practical space is going to lock away more and more cool toys. You do run into the token problem in which drafters refuse to take the appropriate token from the box you've so carefully put together at great expense, but the fact that you can't run it in your main due to it not having a back means that they don't have a choice, so it may actually improve response rate on token usage since they're forced to go over there anyways.

*But what do I know? All my actual cubing has been online. I've just been sitting here in my apartment shuffling around my cards . . . alone . . . in the dark . . .


:texas:
 
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