Sets [OGW] Oath of the Gatewatch Spoiler Thread

All I'm saying is that I'll be trying to go in open-minded. a 2/1 blocks for crap, and a monocolor land doesn't fix at all. Taking another look at my land section, I'll probably be running the whole enemy cycle but none of the allied. The new ones are all rather flat in power level relative to each other. Having 5 mediocre but fairly even lands sounds better than OP, great, good, good, bad (to me).

How many of y'all push tribal?
stoneforgemasterwork.jpg
 
Empyrial Plate is better as the cards in your hand are easier to control. I know tribal is usually about emptying your hand as fast as possible but I find the Plate to be wayyy more versatile as you could use it in midrange or even control decks, too, while there aren't that many tribals in cube which make this card give a buff relevant enough for a slot in aggro.
 
That could be interesting. Probably too slow though. T1 Goblin, T2 Mogg War Marshal, T3 this equip is +2/+2 to something though. +1/+1 in the human deck most likely, but potentially scales. If the equip was 1, I'd maybe try it.

I want to like it because I really like equipment and I think it would be cool to have one card for each type (this would be my armor card). I still need a playable shield though. And helm I guess (really, lots of things that aren't weapons). This idea is clearly still a WIP.
 

A good point. I keep forgetting about that equipment, it's good stuff.

honestly a little surprised that we haven't gotten a nicer shield equipment by now. Magebane armor is the best shield-like equipment I can think of, and that's an "armor" equipment. Honestly, it's not half bad either.
 
So far, I consider Hissing Quagmire (BG land 1BG 2/2 deathtouch), Reflector Mage, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and Linvala, the Preserver for my cube to be included.
I don't like overpowered manlands like the UW and UB lands from the first Zen block but BW and BG just seem about right concerning power level. Reflector Mage is just cute and a card I need to support UW tempo, Kalitas might be broken or just good enough, I'll see. Linvala's a good creature for Wx midrange/control and seems about right in my environment which doesn't run powerhouses like Hero of Bladehold or Baneslayer Angel.
 
As ahadabans says it is probably too slow. If I win with that card it is probably going to be because of my opponents lack of mass removal, but then I might as well have had another creature. It doesn't look like it will help much with recovering the match after a mass-removal hits either.

On top of that, decks very seldom contain "complete" tribes in my cube, so realistically there are few decks that would run it in the first place even in a cube were 99 percent of all creatures belong to at least one tribe. I would rather play bonesplitter, or trusty machete in the decks that would run it and in a lot of other decks as well.

It could probably be playable card in a more grindy environment, with less mass removal and lots of eldrazi tokens. On the topic of eldrazi tokens, well all new things eldrazi, they aren't backwards compatible at all. Old eldrazi and new eldrazi does not play well together.
 
Prowess would have been garbage given that you already need 5 mana to activate it. Looting would have been too good I feel.

I agree with your point on prowess being too expensive/mana intensive. Not only that, but Manlands shine late game when other threats have been exhausted, and this runs counter to prowess (requiring gas to be strong). Also, I think a looting UR manland would be just worse than Loothouse
 
I think a looting manland would be way better than lighthouse because it's a threat and not just an expensive filter. Lighthouse was 4 mana to draw and discard a card. Without graveyard synergies, it's unplayable IMO. And it's a colorless producing land too. I cut that thing when I started dialing back a bit of my self discard support.
 
Deceiver of Form looks terrible? I think?

Izzet manland looks fine

I think I like Eldrazi Obligator. And maybe Vile Redeemer.
 

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
I suppose the question is how often in your cube you have two decks that put almost no clock on each other face off.

Lighthouse is ok. It sees occasional play out of the ULD. Sometimes it isn't good, but at least when its useless it still taps for mana.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I'll take a monocolor 2/1 for {1}{U} with evasion (!!!) over a 4/1 beater for {2}{U}{R} that requires a clear board, 7 mana, and a counter in hand any day. I'll also feel a lot less shitty if my conclave blows up to a Magma Jet.
We should not forget that Conclave only brings being a manland to the table. Fumarole is not only a manland, it's also fixing, it is therefore playable no matter how bad the creature side of the card is.
 
Hm. You could think of Conclave as a 1-drop in your blue section, instead of as a colorless land. Like other 1 drops, it precludes other turn 1 plays, is somewhat annoying to cast on later turns due to cipt.....

Conclave / Mana Dork
reasonable turn 1 play
mana/creature, but not both
somewhat annoying as a topdeck
cipt / summoning sickness
hard to kill / easy to kill
evasive / not

kiiiinda similar?
 

Laz

Developer
That is an odd comparison. I tend to think of mana-dorks as an easy to kill land, but the creature part matters quite a lot at times.

I only run mono-coloured and colourless manlands out of the ULD at the moment, and I am not sure I have much desire to move to running the full cycle of colour-pair manlands, or even a partial cycle for that matter. How are other people who are running them currently handling it? I feel running an asymmetrical cycle that features both Battlefield Forge because RW wants untapped fixing rather than a mana-intensive weak double striker and Celestial Colonnade might feel a little odd.

Aside: Can we dwell a little more on how sweet Jori En, Ruin Diver is? While I would have loved a sweet keyword like Prowess on there, the card has such a nice design for that colour pair. I have an unnatural urge to want to pair her with Moxen, but I feel I am going down the false synergy path there; has anyone had any experiences with Gitaxian Probe?
 
Conclave taps for colored mana and that's a big reason it's good IMO. Same with treetop. Colorless versions of those lands would suck I feel. And I agree on the dual manlands being good largely because they fix. Plenty of games go by where they don't become creatures over here at least (UW and UB being the notable exceptions).
 
All I'm saying is that I'll be trying to go in open-minded. a 2/1 blocks for crap, and a monocolor land doesn't fix at all. Taking another look at my land section, I'll probably be running the whole enemy cycle but none of the allied. The new ones are all rather flat in power level relative to each other. Having 5 mediocre but fairly even lands sounds better than OP, great, good, good, bad (to me).

How many of y'all push tribal?
stoneforgemasterwork.jpg

Don't you feel totally ripped off when they go so completely off script with the word stoneforge? Like what is this kamigawa? Here's your situationally less expensive but shittier coat of arms!

I'm pumped about a lot of cards this set actually. I guess I'm most excited about the oaths because I'm hoping they herald a return to the sort of design I really enjoy, but for cube it's gotta be Ruin-Diver and Dark-Dwellers. I'm honestly so pumped to play with an Arc Slogger again and Diver has so much motivating potential to play spell velocity magic.
 
Aside: Can we dwell a little more on how sweet Jori En, Ruin Diver is? While I would have loved a sweet keyword like Prowess on there, the card has such a nice design for that colour pair. I have an unnatural urge to want to pair her with Moxen, but I feel I am going down the false synergy path there; has anyone had any experiences with Gitaxian Probe?

Jori En is, endeed, quite sweet-looking, and I got absurdly happy when she spoiled - somehow I feel they dropped prowess and 1 mana off her cost to make her more playable, but that's just my intuition speaking and I'm fine if that's the case. I currently don't have any U/R cards in my cube, which is hilarious, because UR is one of my more popular guild combos. I won't tangent too far on my personal beliefs and my own cube for this*, but UR is a very odd pair to me, in that it's a very cool pair flavour-wise (experiments! creativity! smart dragon guy! artifacts!), but has, imho, never had many cards that live up to that flavour that are also remotely cube-worthy (aside from Izzet Charm) because the execution is often simply "spells matter". Note that I LOVE spells-matter! But as far as linking cards go, there aren't many that really feed into this in an exciting way for me.

Jori En is a fantastic combination of spells-matter and flavour. It captures so elegantly the notion of epic creativity; here you are, this dueling wizard, and you've called forward this legendary researcher. As you cast spells, she has a "eureka!" moment, inspiring you in a very tangent-y, Riptide-y, oh-this-makes-me-think-of-this! way, and you draw another card. Your rapid-fire spellwork leads to a new idea coming to mind; a genuine example of the creative process. So elegant, so flavourful, and so precisely what that colour pair wants to do, and does do. Obviously everyone wants to draw cards, but Jori En also does it in a way that feels very true-to-flavour for me, which is fantastic. I lament Grim Backwoods for being such a very G/B card that allows for card draw while being unplayable in its costing.

Re: Gitaxian Probe; I originally included this a while back as a flex card to support prowess (extra free pump that turn), storm (duh it's free), combo (dig for your shit), and discard strategies ("hmmm... Cabal Therapy naming.. gosh, I don't know.. maybe, and I'm just guessing here... Cyclonic Rift? :^)"), and it does fine work in all of these decks, but it's mostly air. The most common evaluation scenario was: "Is there anything else in my pack I can use? If yes: don't take probe". In that sense, it's fine fodder for fluffing up your cube, but more often than not, it felt incorrect to essentially play 39 cards and start out -2 life in my format, because despite being a good wrestling ground for aggro vs control, there's a lot of damage flying around and not enough lifegain to profitably make having 39 cards in your deck worth the 2 life cost. And the card itself is barely worth {U} in a format with so many other, better cantrips. Sure, it's a fine curve filler, but I opted to cut it pretty early on when trimming down my cube size most recently, because it really was always just pure filler. I'd include it again primarily if I was obsessive over the exact number of cards I needed in my cube and wanted a place-holder, but I don't think it's really worth it unless your environment is heavy on discard effects and combo.


* = (like about how seeing Ral Zarek in saf's stream makes me want to try him again now that my cube is lower powered and how I want to use Izzet Charm and Electrolyze but can't find the space because they feel pretty dull for a multicolour pick and etc, etc..)
 

Dom Harvey

Contributor
Now that we have surge coming in to join fake surge (Illusory Angel) there might be a real incentive to play Probe.

How have we not talked more about Oath of Nissa? It's less exciting for those of us who cut down on planeswalkers, but there's still part of me getting excited at Oath to find Venser, the Sojourner and then using Venser to blink Oath. Also goes nicely with Kor Skyfisher/Flickerwisp/Brago and pitches to Force supports constellation
 
Also goes nicely with Kor Skyfisher/Flickerwisp/Brago and pitches to Force supports constellation

I feel like the whole cycle will be good with this set of things. Not sure the little pseudo-impulse effect is enough for me to want this one in particular.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
How have we not talked more about Oath of Nissa? It's less exciting for those of us who cut down on planeswalkers, but there's still part of me getting excited at Oath to find Venser, the Sojourner and then using Venser to blink Oath. Also goes nicely with Kor Skyfisher/Flickerwisp/Brago and pitches to Force supports constellation

I think it's a great card and people are probably just hung up on the PW part of it. The "look at 3 cards and put one into your hand for {G}" is the exciting part of it.
 
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