Sets [OGW] Oath of the Gatewatch Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter shamizy
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I like that Oath of Nissa being Legendary is super duper irrelevant, but is there only for the sake of the cycle.
At least this way they can go to the graveyard in Constructed? Idk but I'd imagine some more yard shenanigans in SoI and the Legend rule is surprisingly elegant as an enabler.
if you control a legendary creature, legendary land, legendary artifact and legendary enchantment, you win the game and reflect upon what you've made of your life.
maybe they thought these would be too good in Legacy enchantress if multiples could sit on the board.
Will <> transcend this set as an evergreen game component?
maybe they thought these would be too good in Legacy enchantress if multiples could sit on the board.
Will <> transcend this set as an evergreen game component?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yes, they said on the mother site the symbol will be used from now on forward.
Yeah it wouldn't make much sense to errata every colorless prodicing land in existence to use the new symbol, then use it once. It will take ages before we have the cards to fully support it, though. I may start a thread to discuss the design possibilities of our new 6th color, though
It's not a new color though, it's literally had the same function since alpha. Brown has always had a "color pie slice" with artifacts.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Have I mentioned how much I love the new approach to colorless mana? This is one of those things that MaRo would advice younger Garfield to change about the game if he went back in time. It's so damn elegant!
Ok, I'll stop myself now. Love it!
Chris Taylor
Contributor
The symbol sure, but are we going to get cards that cost diamond in shadows over innistrad?
I'd have a hard time believeing that unless the plot just went haywire and the eldrazi are in all blocks from here until the end times
I'd have a hard time believeing that unless the plot just went haywire and the eldrazi are in all blocks from here until the end times
The symbol sure, but are we going to get cards that cost diamond in shadows over innistrad?
I'd have a hard time believeing that unless the plot just went haywire and the eldrazi are in all blocks from here until the end times
Costing specifically
is here to stay, albeit sparingly for things that aren't Eldrazi. They're not opposed to some artifacts requiring in the future but most won't.Producing specifically
is here to stay, and shows up on things like Uncommon mana fixing.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I wonder if we'll get some super cute lands that tap for or <>
or <>As far as the color pie goes, sure. But functionally, its a new color. The manager works exactly like other colored mana. Lands make and of the 5 colors or colorless, a spells cost any of those 6, or generic.
So from a design sense, you could potentially treat it as a full 6th color, with 5 new duals and 5 new fetches and everything. (Or pain or filter lands, which become tri-lands of sorts)
I think it's a great card and people are probably just hung up on the PW part of it. The "look at 3 cards and put one into your hand for
If I can weigh in here despite being a lil late.
I've had a couple conversations about white removal with users here and my experience playing UW control in their environments has been largely informative but so have my frustrations trying to design a mostly modern cube.
We put a lot of emphasis on cultivating resources and privileging quirky card advantage strategies in how we talk about cube design and enchantment based removal is like a null to those upsides we are working toward. If you privilege gitaxian tricks you are making players that play journey or pacifism feel disadvantaged and o-stone feel clunky and like it costs 4 mana.
Can trips aren't just about cycling anymore, though I love that green is seeing the light a little more. We are trying to make these colours more interactive as well as having more introspective agency and nissa's oath does a real one-ass-cheek job, and in cube it can't even make excuses for itself by crying new sarkhan.
Oath cards feel like the modern equivalent of gimmees for peasant cube. Here's a card that is almost like thirst for knowledge but reinforces gaining advantage onboard and reminds you that we don't live in the world of instants, sorcereries or fact or fiction anymore.
We can probz do better unless we are trying to play their game and go devotion-style-enchantress but honestly it's probably a step in the right direction if it leaves players obsessed with snapcaster+bolt out to dry.
Riptide to me is about understanding loving legacy or vintage formats and appreciating modern and NWO (draft and standard) and I hope I'm getting that across.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
oh yeah devotion
I find <> to be very interesting flavor-wise as to what it means in costs. Here I think its meant to convey an alien, different nature. I think if they want to use it it'll have to be in the context of entirely alien, or entirely devoid of emotion and personality, or in another interpretation devoid of life/energy. Its hard to even think of a card that could fit that bill. Makes me think it won't come up much, required support issues aside.
To me this is exactly what artifacts are- they have energy, but not identity. That's pretty much what colorless mana is, isn't it?
MaRo has said on his blog many times that having <> in costs is a special thing, and won't be every set or block, so expect <>-costing cards to be rare or as much of a block mechanic as anything else.
But artifacts are just blocks of metal, any ol' mage can chuck one in their bag and hit the arena. That's why they have generic costs. Also why they are usually built around things any color could do. This would imply something outside the bounds of colored mana, and out of reach of mages who identify with a color.
Agree with it being a rare occurrence.
Agree with it being a rare occurrence.
Wow, you've managed to articulate what I've been thinking about Magic design as of late. I played in a local Modern tournament this afternoon and played against a UB Faeries deck for the first time ever (as you might know I play UR Twin). It was one of the more exciting games of Magic I had played in a while, because the entire match eschewed (for the most part) sorcery-speed interaction, and was played out on end steps, at instant speed, with several complicated 4-or-more spell stacks. Because our decks are entirely flash threats and instants, it was refreshing to have to consider something other than removal could be going on at instant speed, and having to think about position in terms of information, cards, hands, mana, and life. Essentially, everything mattered, all the time. It probably helped that it was a Vendilion Clique mirror (that card is the pinnacle of interactive, decision-rich Magic). I just don't see those kinds of games often, and love to play them when they come up, and I think that's partly due to NWO designs forcing commitment to the board so heavily.
Are there enough cards for a Flash cube?
So, what are your guys' thoughts on Surge? I was really digging it with the initial spoiler of crush of tentacles, but after a lot of the recent spoilers it seems like Wotc is going for the 'nearly unplayable without Surge, and functional with it' as opposed to 'decent without; good/great with.' It's a real shame that it looks like Wotc took the concept of surge and stapled it to a bunch of bad cards to essentially fool the user into thinking that they got themselves a deal when they cast them.
That's one of the things they do. I read an article on it sometime last monthish... I think the article was about Miracle. Basically they want the fancy version of the card to feel amazing, but they don't want to make it broken-amazing. So rather than being reasonable and making the "bad" version of the card only a little bit worse, they make it intentionally unplayable so that it feels that much better to play the card in the intended, awesomer-but-you-gotta-jump-through-hoops mode.
Oh hey guys I thought the same thing but uh
"Overwhelming Denial 2UU
Instant (R)
Surge UU
Overwhelming Denial can't be countered by spells or abilities.
Counter target spell."
e: it's much stronger than Last Word (which was never really that exciting) because the matchups where you actually care that it's uncounterable, you're protecting a spell with it so Surge is a gimme, and 2UU is tolerable as a WCS if you're playing draw-go. Last Word's problem is that that's also its ACS, and BCS...
"Overwhelming Denial 2UU
Instant (R)
Surge UU
Overwhelming Denial can't be countered by spells or abilities.
Counter target spell."
e: it's much stronger than Last Word (which was never really that exciting) because the matchups where you actually care that it's uncounterable, you're protecting a spell with it so Surge is a gimme, and 2UU is tolerable as a WCS if you're playing draw-go. Last Word's problem is that that's also its ACS, and BCS...
Dom Harvey
Contributor
agree with this being a redeeming feature of Modern; in Cube there's comfortably enough room across Bant colours for a Flash deck like the ones we saw in ISD/RAV Standard
If Overwhelming Denial would cost 1UU I'd definitely cube it as it would be quite sweet.
