Sets Shadows over Innistrad Spoilers Thread

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Tzenmoroth said:
I already run test subject. I'll probably be running both n ow. Might even cut a random 5+ drop for this. I love the shit out of designs like this, keep it coming Wizards. I can't believe how many cards in this set I'm already slotting in.

I'm not convinced this is a better card that test subject though. Subject wins topdeck wars and similarly super grindy games where this thing won't. Also, if you're holding a grip of counterspells and are even slightly behind on board, this might never flip where test subject would be inevitable. Test subject is also a pretty promo. :p
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Also totally with you on this sort of design just being A++.

Good points about LTS. On the flip side, I guess, Thing in the Ice is a lot better in your opening hand, where you don't have to let it sit around for who knows how many turns. Jam it out then start casting your spells as normal. It's also a 0/4 instead of a 0/3, which is actually super relevant in low curve cubes like riptide's, because the number of less than 4 power creatures is quite high. I can definitely see the case for just running both like you sound inclined to do! :D

It's got me thinking about taking possibly wall of blossoms out, and shifting the 0/4-wall-with-upside to white and blue instead of white and green.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Also for those of you that play it, hexmaging the counters off doesn't flip it, it checks weather it has any left after you play an instant or sorcery (In case anyone wants to get tricky)

Part of me is wondering weather I should remove wall of omens and let blue green have the fun. Blue deff wants to block, and green probably does a lot too, but white has random first strikers as good blockers, maybe I could do something with that.

Stupid FNM promo wall of omens being so pretty. Clouding my judgement
 
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Chris Taylor said:
Stupid FNM promo wall of omens being so pretty. Clouding my judgement
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It was the same way for me and FtV:20 wall of blossoms, but I think a foil of this might satisfy me too :p. I think white needs it a little more than green, cuz it has fewer small creatures (in my cube) I'd natively want to put into a control build and green can just ramp past "early blocker" stage anyway. Also maybe just Sylvan Caryatid?

You can hexmage off the counters in response to the first spell cast, I believe, cuz it doesn't say "if the last is removed this way" it says "if there are none". So the combo would be something like:
T2 Thing -> T3 hexmage + cantrip, sac in response -> swinging uncontested with your 7/8
right?
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
GiftsForgiven said:
I am so freakin' amped for this thing in the ice.

Right there with you. Thankfully this isn't looking like another BFZ... I haven't been disappointed with a card yet!
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BFZ was not what people expected from it, and it's kinda eclipsed by OGW, but there are secretly a lot of BFZ cards that snuck into my cube and look like they might stay, and that's not even counting the three planeswalkers that I personally haven't added but are doing good work in others' cubes! I think the set is a lot better for cubes than people are giving it credit for.
 
GiftsForgiven

GiftsForgiven

Onderzeeboot said:
BFZ was not what people expected from it, and it's kinda eclipsed by OGW, but there are secretly a lot of BFZ cards that snuck into my cube and look like they might stay, and that's not even counting the three planeswalkers that I personally haven't added but are doing good work in others' cubes! I think the set is a lot better for cubes than people are giving it credit for.
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...Huh. I just checked my current cube list, and it does have Gideon, Ulamog and oblivion sower in it from BFZ.

...I stand corrected.
 
shamizy

shamizy

I don't know if it can actually crack into my cube (black fours are hard), but this card is just so cool:

HtQemoo.jpg
 
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Besides the aforementioned cluttered 4-drop territory for black, I do like this card. Like venny said, it's a mini aetherling. I like to think of it as a hybrid Prognostic Sphinx/Aetherling, but natively black. It'd be a useful piece if predominantly black control decks are kicking around in anyone's environment.

I'm very much liking these spoilers so far. Just got a couple new rares spoiled, maybe intro pack rares? Not super duper good, but a mono red angel, which is a first (not counting Planar Chaos Akroma, because color pie = dead in that set).
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
GiftsForgiven said:
...Huh. I just checked my current cube list, and it does have Gideon, Ulamog and oblivion sower in it from BFZ.

...I stand corrected.
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The beauty is, I've got completely different cards that work well in my environment :)

Gideon's Reproach, Quarantine Field, Guardian of Tazeem, Blighted Cataract, Zulaport Cutthroat, Drana, Liberator of Malakir, Painful Truths, Radiant Flames, Undergrowth Champion, Greenwarden of Murasa, Catacomb Sifter, 2 Hedron Archives, and an Endless One. They'ld have to print something very special for me to cut Drana, Truths, Flames, and the Hedron Archives, and Reproach is the only one that seems eminently cuttable (in fact, Declaration in Stone will almost certainly replace it come SOI (hey! I tied it back to the spoilers! ;))).
 
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Onderzeeboot said:
The beauty is, I've got completely different cards that work well in my environment :)

Gideon's Reproach, Quarantine Field, Guardian of Tazeem, Blighted Cataract, Zulaport Cutthroat, Drana, Liberator of Malakir, Painful Truths, Radiant Flames, Undergrowth Champion, Greenwarden of Murasa, Catacomb Sifter, 2 Hedron Archives, and an Endless One. They'ld have to print something very special for me to cut Drana, Truths, Flames, and the Hedron Archives, and Reproach is the only one that seems eminently cuttable (in fact, Declaration in Stone will almost certainly replace it come SOI (hey! I tied it back to the spoilers! ;))).
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I like this list. Turns out, there aren't really "bad" mtg sets printed any more. Some just resonate a little better? But in the end, I think we all actually appreciate every set for what it brings. For instance, I remember being amazed at the Born of the Gods cards I have, considering how poorly many think of that set as a whole.

Declaration in Stone = Yes. Here's the 2cmc powerful-but-not-an-enchantment white removal we've been looking for, no?
 
GiftsForgiven

GiftsForgiven

I think my issue is that sometimes I forget that this is a cube forum, and give opinions based on other perspectives (constructed, limited, vorthos, etc.) I took another look, and I'd forgotten several other cards from BFZ that I'd added (Catacomb Sifter, Drana, Zulaport cutthroat, etc.

To keep things on topic, what 'power level' would you put Elusive Tormentor on? Is it possible for him to scale into a more legacy power cube?
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Depends a bit. It's a repeatable discard outlet, but a rather expensive one. It's resilient, but at the cost of cards (the Prognostic Sphinx comparison was pretty apt!). It's breaks stalemates really well! Black fours are so tight though, what would O cut for this?
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Goldenpineapple said:
They only get a clue for each nontoken creature!

Is warped landscape like... reverse crumbling vestige? Colorless up front that turns into any color later?
warpedlandscape.jpg


I'm over here losing my mind over thing in the ice and my friends are asking me if Hinterland Logger is good enough for standard...
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They sure do, but I'm more worried about the case when I cast two or hit double on something then stumble.

That extra card only matters if they aren't dead when they cast it, which might not always be the case :p
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
sigh said:
This just seems... better than ludevic's test subject, right? You don't have to sink 10 additional mana, it just flips off you doing what your deck does normally. And then whelping waves everything on flip. Nice
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I don't really think it's necessarily stronger. 10 mana is easier than 4 spells late game, and 13/13 Trample is a much bigger reward than a chumpable 7/8.
 
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Jason Waddell said:
I don't really think it's necessarily stronger. 10 mana is easier than 4 spells late game, and 13/13 Trample is a much bigger reward than a chumpable 7/8.
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My mind is changed to "about as good as, in different ways" because:
-it's way better early game then the test subject, and a much worse top deck.
-it's got a built in BW.
-it's that magical 7 power, 3 turn clock if things go right, but that is much weaker than a 13/13 tramps.
-I think the 4 toughness is a relevant upside. Bolt = death for one, but not the other.

Chris Taylor said:
Declaration in stone does make them draw a card mind you, so I doubt I'll be adding in three copies or whatnot :p
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They have to spend mana to draw a card. It's like putting a colorless think twice in their hand. Path to Exile, on the other hand, casts rampant growth for them, with no mana investment on their side. Essentially, it's slightly more expensive and slower removal, for a more expensive and worse upside for your opponent. And it can eat all 4 spirits from lingering souls

I wouldn't run more than one either. I do like diverse removal suites. Also my cube is singleton :p
 
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