4 mana kind of kill a dude and gain 4 isn't exactly great against aggro decks nowadays. It's so slow, you casting an O-Ring on turn 3 probably saves you the same amount of life.
Card/Deck Single Card Spotlight
- Thread starter Dom Harvey
- Start date
4 mana kind of kill a dude and gain 4 isn't exactly great against aggro decks nowadays. It's so slow, you casting an O-Ring on turn 3 probably saves you the same amount of life.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Are we just going to ignore the discard 2 cards clause? Supression Bonds isn't even good, and this punisher card is?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
@ karl. Exactly. The main reason to run it is that it can hit anything, and the lifegain makes it just efficent enough for someone to put it into a deck; but I dont think fetters has really aged very well. I don't see how overload is going to pass muster.
Why not try that Rebel pacifism but as a Changeling pacifism instead?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
It's not as if it prevents you from running out another 3-drop the turn before. It's a mono-colored near-Vindicate that gains you 4 life. I really don't get how you can not like this card. I am always happy to run that card.
Which still doesn't make Surpressing Bonds a playable card. It's junk. If you want to run a four-mana removal spell in blue it should be
It's "two artifact cards", which is ignore-worthy from most cubes. Still not saying it's (remotely) good, just use goddam Counterspell like a blue mage is supposed to.
Fetters is sweet. I run it in any control deck that has Plains. If you have enough auras to run Heliod's Pilgrim it just gets better. It's not exactly the P1P1 bomb removal it once was, but like, what is?
Speaking of Control Magic, what do people think of Threads of Disloyalty?
Speaking of Control Magic, what do people think of Threads of Disloyalty?
I love Threads, so it's probably bad.
I have yet to buckle down and buy a copy but I might real soon. The value obviously goes up based on how many good early things you have. If I ever cave and get a copy, I'll let you know how it goes.
It's one of those cards that would be real bluh in a traditional cube because Treachery and Control Magic exist and ideally you want to get the Titan they played T3 with your T4 Control Magic.
But in a Riptide cube, Threads could be pretty swell, because of the lower mana curve and bomb density. It's a sick tempo play, and I think that's part of why its price skyrocketed after it got run in that Blue Moon deck or whatever.
But in a Riptide cube, Threads could be pretty swell, because of the lower mana curve and bomb density. It's a sick tempo play, and I think that's part of why its price skyrocketed after it got run in that Blue Moon deck or whatever.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Yeah threads looks really sweet: powerful but with an interesting condition. Really irksom that its a $15 card.
I don't think anyone is saying that fetters is a bad card, just that cube has gotten a lot more efficent, and the 4 life gain dosen't make up for the time spent casting it like it used too. Still a sweet card, and a nice way to run non narrow ways to interact with lands, artifacts, and enchantments. Its no where near as good as vindicate though.
I don't think anyone is saying that fetters is a bad card, just that cube has gotten a lot more efficent, and the 4 life gain dosen't make up for the time spent casting it like it used too. Still a sweet card, and a nice way to run non narrow ways to interact with lands, artifacts, and enchantments. Its no where near as good as vindicate though.
I wasted a bunch of money a few years ago when I wanted to test Threads of Disloyalty... and I wouldn't recommend anyone else put down their hard-earned cash on it. As low curve as our formats are, no one has a cube nearly as fast as, say, modern constructed, where Threads is a sideboard-only card for when you really want to steal a goyf. In cube, I found it had the same problems as something like Negate - a narrow answer that isn't good enough to maindeck, and probably only hoses two people at the table.
I... cut Faith's Fetters for a while ago because I thought it wasn't good enough (!). I think I was wrong on that one, though, and it's now back in the list. I'm not really even much of a fan of Oblivion Ring - three mana sorcery speed spot removal is a lot worse than it used to be - but I recognize that versatility in answers is sorely needed in cubes. Fetters is slower than molasses, but at least you can blink it over and over again with Venser, the Sojourner.
I... cut Faith's Fetters for a while ago because I thought it wasn't good enough (!). I think I was wrong on that one, though, and it's now back in the list. I'm not really even much of a fan of Oblivion Ring - three mana sorcery speed spot removal is a lot worse than it used to be - but I recognize that versatility in answers is sorely needed in cubes. Fetters is slower than molasses, but at least you can blink it over and over again with Venser, the Sojourner.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
If ever you find yourself in a spot where you want to strengthen aggro and you don't know how, Fetters is definitely a possible cut!
I feel like I would rather run Divination in 1v1 for the immediate and guaranteed value.
Cute control finisher or efficient beater that synergizes with stuff that likes dying? Is the drawback too big?
This needs way better stats to be worth the lifegain. Blue gets 3/4 fliers (I know, different stats) with much less drawback, and not even all of those see play.
Unless the game fundamentally changes to where control no longer has use of stabilizing cards on T4 (which I do not see how that could ever be true), this card is always going to be playable. Maybe it's not a windmill slam anymore but it does exactly what you want a control card doing. It shuts something down and gains you life to buy time.
This card is more desirable than o-ring in control decks IMO for three reasons:
1. It deals with manlands
2. It gains life
3. It doesn't trigger ETB effects if removed
The only negative over o-ring is that if removed the creature has haste.
This card is more desirable than o-ring in control decks IMO for three reasons:
1. It deals with manlands
2. It gains life
3. It doesn't trigger ETB effects if removed
The only negative over o-ring is that if removed the creature has haste.
It doesn't deal with triggered abilities (Blood Artist, Dark Confidant), nor static abilities (Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Elesh Norn). Good call on the manlands, though, I'd never even thought of that interaction.
That's fair. It is a bad answer against several cards. But I see it as an answer for control strategies against more aggressive ones. It's not a great control on control card. So being bad against Elesh Norn seems totally fine to me. Of the other two, I actually think it's pretty good against confidant since it shuts down them being able to attack with it and Bob decks are on a short timer before they suicide themselves. The only card you listed I would never fetter unless ultra-desperate is Blood Artist (Thalia would be fairly lame too I guess, but I'm really just trying to buy myself time with that card).
As much as I like Fetters, it can be somewhat stifling for aggressive decks that weren't quite fast enough. Council's Judgment has taken some pressure off of Fetters as a safety valve for planeswalkers/enchantments/indestructible/etc. if you wanted to cut Fetters.
This is really interesting... as much of a pro-aggro bias as I have, my impression was that as a four mana sorcery Faith's Fetters wasn't quite good enough against aggro, where you just want cheap interaction (your Condemns and Sunlances). It tended to fare better against midrange, especially when stifling opposing planeswalkers. I guess I'll keep more of an eye on it and see how it really performs.
I think it's more an adjunct instead of a replacement for those early effects. As someone alluded to above, if Fetter's is the first card you play to disrupt the aggro player, it will most likely be too slow. But a condemn a turn or two earlier and then this on T4 is very solid, and depending on your meta could even be oppressive to some strategies. It's goldilocks zone over here though - doesn't do too much but also is usually something I'm not unhappy paying 4 mana for. But I've always really liked this card.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Its really weird being on the side, for once, questioning 4 mana sorcery speed spot removal, rather than defending it.
I just really don't see how it could be oppressive against a decent aggro deck, regardless of when you cast it. Sometimes I feel like the card reads "destroy target creature, gain 4 life, skip your turn." Usually with those types of cards I look for a bigger effect: consuming vapors, ribbons of night etc.
I still think the card should be run for its utility, but for actual removal i would much rather have a cheaper spell that lets me play multiple cards in a turn, rather than gain 4 life.
I just really don't see how it could be oppressive against a decent aggro deck, regardless of when you cast it. Sometimes I feel like the card reads "destroy target creature, gain 4 life, skip your turn." Usually with those types of cards I look for a bigger effect: consuming vapors, ribbons of night etc.
I still think the card should be run for its utility, but for actual removal i would much rather have a cheaper spell that lets me play multiple cards in a turn, rather than gain 4 life.
I don't like walls that don't draw me cards, personally.