Chris Taylor
Contributor
Yeah I don't run cards UNLESS they have reminder text 
Sets (WOE) Wilds of Eldraine Testing/Includes Thread
- Thread starter TrainmasterGT
- Start date
I'm looking into printing whatever I settle on and will be adding (Reminder text.) for anything that isn't evergreen.Yeah I don't run cards UNLESS they have reminder text
Same. I am strongly considering putting some tape over that or smth.
I see you don't run any Planeswalkers, so this is maybe not that helpful to you, but they're the most controversial card type in my playgroup. A third of my players don't like them on principle, another third enjoy them but acknowledge they can gum up games and are a bit unfair (especially against newer players), and another third want to force superfriends whenever they can.
Having cards with a marginal PW-hate ability is actually really helpful to making groups 1 and 2 feel better, even as classic walkers are starting to get outclassed and I've gotten better at managing their density. It also makes group 3 excited that there are planeswalkers worth hating out around.
As a general point, try as I might, I go out of my way to avoid additive distraction to my cube list and I'm glad so many do here as well: it's very helpful to discuss and debate this. But there are many cards in my Cube where the "juice is worth the squeeze", like with:
It's all about minimizing! I really respect folks who are strict about this, but I've found a line I'm comfortable with in terms of an acceptable middle ground....and I might try to do something like custom partially-opaque inner sleeves once I'm back in the States to address these exceptions in a clever way.
As a last point though....I wish the 'walker text wasn't at the top of the card, but rather, the bottom.
I feel like Werefox Bodyguard is wordier than it needs to be, and I'm partially holding out hope they will make an artifact creature one that's a clue instead of gaining life, but I think it has cool play patterns.
I really dislike the Role mechanic and especially how misleading some of the reminder texts on them are
I don’t want Werefox for my cube but I desperately want it for a combo deck I run in Duel Commander. In fact it is a strict upgrade over Fiend Hunter for my combo and I will be running both now that I have the option. Sometimes I have wanted to sacrifice the Fiend Hunter but could not. I had to bait my opponent into attacking so I could block. Not very difficult to bait an opponent into attacking normally but if they recognize the combo only works if Fiend Hunter is either in library or graveyard then it becomes rather complicated. Now it had a build-in sac!
Can you elaborate what you said about Roles have misleading reminder texts?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I don't know if this is relevant to your combo, but note that Fiend Hunter uses the old exile/return wording, while Werefox uses the modern wording. When you sacrifice Fiend Hunter with its etb (enters the battlefield) trigger on the stack, the ltb (leaves the battlefield) trigger will go on top of it (on the stack) and resolve first. The ltb trigger finds nothing to return, so it does nothing, then the etb trigger resolves and (permanently) exiles the targeted creature. Werefox, and other cards with the modern wording, uses a newer "until CARDNAME leaves the battlefield" wording. If you sacrifice Werefox with its etb trigger on the stack, like before its ltb trigger will resolve first, finding nothing to return, but when the etb trigger resolves, it will see that Werefox is no longer on the battlefield, and so it does not exile the target of the etb ability at all.
No it is not relevant at all.
The combo in short
Kroxa either hits the battlefield or attacks which caused the triggered ability to go to the stack.
You choose to exile 5 cards from your graveyard.
In respons to the second triggered ability you sacrifice Kroxa to Altar targeting yourself.
This causes you to mill 6 cards.
You return Kroxa from the graveyard with the Kroxa ability.
Kroxa hits the battlefield or attacks which caused the triggered ability to go to the stack.
Now we have a loop. The loop keeps putting Kroxa into the graveyard and onto the battlefield making the graveyard bigger and bigger and making the exile zone bigger and bigger.
Eventually you have both the Hero and Fiend Hunter in the graveyard. You do the loop one more time. Only this time you don't sacrifice Kroxa but keep it on the battlefield and instead return Hero to the battlefield. Hero returns Fiend Hunter to the battlefield. Fiend Hunter exiles Hero and now you have the actual combo on the battlefield.
You sacrifice Fiend Hunter to Altar in order to mill your opponent for 1.
This causes Hero to return from exile to the battlefield.
Hero returns Fiend Hunter to the battlefield from the graveyard.
Fiend Hunter exiles Hero.
Now you have the second loop established.
Repeat the second loop until opponent has 0 cards in library. Pass the turn.
The combo is quite resilient because the Hero and Fiend Hunter can be either in library or graveyard when the combo has to work. Kroxa is your commander and can be safe in that zone. And Hero can return the Altar from the graveyard. And even if opponent has an Eldrazi in the library, they can still be milled. You can do some of this combo at instant speed and between any phase or step. This leaves 99 - 3 = 96 cards for non-combo things.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Cool, now I understand why the sac ability is so useful on the Werefox for you Thanks for explaining!
Thanks for explaining!
A sizeable portion of the cards omit a relevant part of how the mechanic functions. None of Besotted Knight, Ferocious Werefox, Giant Inheritance, Lord Skitter's Blessing, Not Dead After All, Unassuming Sage or Vantress Transmuter inform you that you have a limit of one Role per creature, although for the last two it's unlikely to come up during play.
I think the ones that are Adventures and also use Roles are particularly egregious about this (Besotted Knight, Conceited Witch, Ferocious Werefox, and Vantress Transmuter). Some of them remind you about the role and some of them remind you about how adventures work and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. And all of them are commons no less!
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I hadn’t noticed that yet. That’s wild(ly inconsistent)! :’)
Yeah my playgroup never adjusted to planeswalkers so I just dont run any. I am not too fond of the play patterns myself so we're pretty much all on the same page.
Yeah I think that one of my big issues with the Syr Ginger planeswalker text is that even in cubes where I decide to include some planeswalkers, I think they work much better as a sometimes food. It's not particularly fun to stare down a board of 3 planeswalkers and try to work out how all 9 of their abilities might affect the game. But it can be fun sometimes to play around one simple walker like Liliana of the Veil. So even in cubes where I have planeswalkers, it's STILL gonna be trinket text most of the time.
I think there's also something that's kind of inelegant about it, similar to Questing Beast. Like okay, we need a card that's good against planeswalkers. How about uuhhhhh a creature that just gets a shitload of busted keywords if your opponent has a planeswalker? Just has the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
I think there's also something that's kind of inelegant about it, similar to Questing Beast. Like okay, we need a card that's good against planeswalkers. How about uuhhhhh a creature that just gets a shitload of busted keywords if your opponent has a planeswalker? Just has the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
Last edited:
I preface this by saying I mostly avoid enchantment support in my cube, and I'm not including any role tokens.
Certain:
Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender: Windmill slamming this one. Awesome card. Wordy. But awesome.
Near Certain:
Werefox Bodyguard: Considering this over Skyclave Apparition. I have a flash subtheme in White and Blue, and I like the play patterns this offers over the generically superior Apparition. I have come to really value instant speed flash in my cube with the introduction of the MH2 evoke elementals, and while I don't expect myself to use the 5 mana blink mode often, it's a nice option to have.
Uncertain but Interested:
Tough Cookie: I really like this card, and any time a creature is an artifact it's worth taking a closer look at in my cube. I like that it has some blink and welder synergies...it feels a bit out of place in my current archetypes that is my only reason for pause. It would've been a nice bonus if it could target artifact creatures and pump itself.
Rankle's Prank: I have an irrational love for Barter in Blood and this BiB on steroids. I'm going to seriously look at how I can make it fit in my cube. I know land destruction isn't really a thing anymore, but if this hit lands it would've been one of my favorite cards ever.
Picklock Prankster: I'm not fully invested in the Delver style high spell count tempo decks, but I'm close. This is a great piece for that archetype if I push it a little further. Right now, I feel like it competes for the same space as Ledger Shredder, and I greatly prefer Shredder.
Virtue of Persistence: The adventure being a very acceptable base line makes this pretty intriguing. I limit cheap high toughness creatures in my cube, and this kills around 80% of my creatures. 7 mana is a lot for something that has no immediate board presence. Sorcery speed on the adventure is the only reason I hesitate to include it.
Regal Bunnicorn: Support for token arcehtypes has improved a lot and is getting closer to reconsideration for me. I currently run very few token generators outside of spells matter token generators like Young Pyromancer, and I don't support a lot of go wide decks. However, I like that this works with baubles and trinkets as well, and I could see this being worth looking into. Super elegant.
Likeness Looter: Maybe the card to oust Baleful Strix's spot in my Dimir section. I hate that you can't activate the second ability at instant speed which nerfs your ability to loot and "transform" at end of turn. Missed opportunity. I don't think it would've made it unreasonably strong. At least the transform isn't a tap ability.
Beseech the Mirror: Bananas card, but triple black is a tough pill to swallow.
Interested but Doubtful:
Lich-Knight’s Conquest: I fear it's a little too fussy for my cube as it would be mostly limited to artifact sacrifice, but I can't help but be intrigued....it's an almost for me.
Loamcrafter Faun: 3 mana is always the sticking point with any lands matters cards. I would replace Eternal Witness with this as an aggressive splashable alternative, but only getting back nonland permanents will probably stop me from making that sub.
Mosswood Dreadknight: I would need to increase my guild section to have space for this. That's no knock against the card, it's a very cool upgraded Masked Admirers type beat.
Lord Skitter, Sewer King: I don't support enough go wide strategies to be that interested in Rabblemasters at the moment. I like this piece. I especially like that it can't muck up the ground like Ophiomancer.
Faerie Dreamthief: Really like this card for lower-powered cubes.
Questing Druid: Have to mention it because Gro is one of my all time favorite decks. No bueno at my power level tho.
Talion, the Kindly Lord: Seems kind of insane in a low-cmc cube. Very cool, but a little too generic.
Collector's Vault: Currency Converter outclasses this, but it's close to consideration. I like that after the first activation it only has to cost 1 mana to use if you save your treasure for it. I think this is a pretty elegant card that has some interesting play patterns.
Cheeky House-Mouse: Would be an easy include if I support prowess based aggro....with Monastery Swiftspear and the like.
Realm-Scorcher Hellkite: I'm always on the look out for top end red creatures that survive wildfire. I mentioned this in the spoiler thread, but I wish Bargain was triggered on ETB for creatures.
Bloosoming Tortoise: Interesting card, but doesn't hold up at my power level.
Bramble Familiar: Mentioned this in the spoiler thread, but this really needed to return any creature, enchantment or land from your graveyard. Not just from among milled cards. It would make perfect mechanical sense for you to be able to reanimate the card you discard to the familiar's ability. As such, it's probably a no for me
Certain:
Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender: Windmill slamming this one. Awesome card. Wordy. But awesome.
Near Certain:
Werefox Bodyguard: Considering this over Skyclave Apparition. I have a flash subtheme in White and Blue, and I like the play patterns this offers over the generically superior Apparition. I have come to really value instant speed flash in my cube with the introduction of the MH2 evoke elementals, and while I don't expect myself to use the 5 mana blink mode often, it's a nice option to have.
Uncertain but Interested:
Tough Cookie: I really like this card, and any time a creature is an artifact it's worth taking a closer look at in my cube. I like that it has some blink and welder synergies...it feels a bit out of place in my current archetypes that is my only reason for pause. It would've been a nice bonus if it could target artifact creatures and pump itself.
Rankle's Prank: I have an irrational love for Barter in Blood and this BiB on steroids. I'm going to seriously look at how I can make it fit in my cube. I know land destruction isn't really a thing anymore, but if this hit lands it would've been one of my favorite cards ever.
Picklock Prankster: I'm not fully invested in the Delver style high spell count tempo decks, but I'm close. This is a great piece for that archetype if I push it a little further. Right now, I feel like it competes for the same space as Ledger Shredder, and I greatly prefer Shredder.
Virtue of Persistence: The adventure being a very acceptable base line makes this pretty intriguing. I limit cheap high toughness creatures in my cube, and this kills around 80% of my creatures. 7 mana is a lot for something that has no immediate board presence. Sorcery speed on the adventure is the only reason I hesitate to include it.
Regal Bunnicorn: Support for token arcehtypes has improved a lot and is getting closer to reconsideration for me. I currently run very few token generators outside of spells matter token generators like Young Pyromancer, and I don't support a lot of go wide decks. However, I like that this works with baubles and trinkets as well, and I could see this being worth looking into. Super elegant.
Likeness Looter: Maybe the card to oust Baleful Strix's spot in my Dimir section. I hate that you can't activate the second ability at instant speed which nerfs your ability to loot and "transform" at end of turn. Missed opportunity. I don't think it would've made it unreasonably strong. At least the transform isn't a tap ability.
Beseech the Mirror: Bananas card, but triple black is a tough pill to swallow.
Interested but Doubtful:
Lich-Knight’s Conquest: I fear it's a little too fussy for my cube as it would be mostly limited to artifact sacrifice, but I can't help but be intrigued....it's an almost for me.
Loamcrafter Faun: 3 mana is always the sticking point with any lands matters cards. I would replace Eternal Witness with this as an aggressive splashable alternative, but only getting back nonland permanents will probably stop me from making that sub.
Mosswood Dreadknight: I would need to increase my guild section to have space for this. That's no knock against the card, it's a very cool upgraded Masked Admirers type beat.
Lord Skitter, Sewer King: I don't support enough go wide strategies to be that interested in Rabblemasters at the moment. I like this piece. I especially like that it can't muck up the ground like Ophiomancer.
Faerie Dreamthief: Really like this card for lower-powered cubes.
Questing Druid: Have to mention it because Gro is one of my all time favorite decks. No bueno at my power level tho.
Talion, the Kindly Lord: Seems kind of insane in a low-cmc cube. Very cool, but a little too generic.
Collector's Vault: Currency Converter outclasses this, but it's close to consideration. I like that after the first activation it only has to cost 1 mana to use if you save your treasure for it. I think this is a pretty elegant card that has some interesting play patterns.
Cheeky House-Mouse: Would be an easy include if I support prowess based aggro....with Monastery Swiftspear and the like.
Realm-Scorcher Hellkite: I'm always on the look out for top end red creatures that survive wildfire. I mentioned this in the spoiler thread, but I wish Bargain was triggered on ETB for creatures.
Bloosoming Tortoise: Interesting card, but doesn't hold up at my power level.
Bramble Familiar: Mentioned this in the spoiler thread, but this really needed to return any creature, enchantment or land from your graveyard. Not just from among milled cards. It would make perfect mechanical sense for you to be able to reanimate the card you discard to the familiar's ability. As such, it's probably a no for me
Last edited:
blacksmithy and I don't see eye to eye on everything but we
please, there's a color pie:
are both very excited for the Five Nights at Freddy's movie.
For Welder's Workshop, I'm definitely finding space for these two:
I love these for the Trinkets and Tchotchkes deck.
And might find space for Virtue of Knowledge, Wildwood Mentor, Bramble Familiar, Lich-Knight's Conquest and Collector's Vault.
All these cards do the kind of stuff I like in the cube's mechanical space. Virtue of Knowledge is probably the most unique, and it would be nice to have a Blue enchantment that doesn't just say "if artifact, then artifact more" in the text box.
For Multivalent, I'll find space for these:
Mostly because the art and flavor on the first three are simply perfect, and Stonesplitter Bolt feels like a good replacement for Brimstone Volley (a card I like a lot but am a little tired of seeing).
And I might find space for Imodane's Recruiter, Woodland Acolyte, and Tempest Hart, simply because I love the Adventure mechanic and I love incidental multicolorosity on cards in this cube. The off-color kicker cards from Dominaria United were a real treat for this environment, and I really want some off-color Adventures, too.
I love these for the Trinkets and Tchotchkes deck.
And might find space for Virtue of Knowledge, Wildwood Mentor, Bramble Familiar, Lich-Knight's Conquest and Collector's Vault.
All these cards do the kind of stuff I like in the cube's mechanical space. Virtue of Knowledge is probably the most unique, and it would be nice to have a Blue enchantment that doesn't just say "if artifact, then artifact more" in the text box.
For Multivalent, I'll find space for these:
Mostly because the art and flavor on the first three are simply perfect, and Stonesplitter Bolt feels like a good replacement for Brimstone Volley (a card I like a lot but am a little tired of seeing).
And I might find space for Imodane's Recruiter, Woodland Acolyte, and Tempest Hart, simply because I love the Adventure mechanic and I love incidental multicolorosity on cards in this cube. The off-color kicker cards from Dominaria United were a real treat for this environment, and I really want some off-color Adventures, too.
For my 1vs1 cube,
Interested
Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender: While I'm not a fan of the PW text, I do like everything else the card is doing.
Tough Cookie: Artifact matters is heavily supported in my cube, to the point where a cheap artifact creature creating another artifact is super relevant. Add to that a powerful mana sink and I am sold!
Pollen-Shield Hare: Anthems having a body greatly increases their playability for me, as I don't have to take a turn off affecting the board. While this only pumps tokens, that is still plenty powerful, especially with all the flying tokens the cube can create.
Speaking of anthems, with all the Adventure cards we are getting, I am going to have to give Leonin Lightscribe a second look for a prowess type aggro deck.
High maybes
Mosswood Dreadknight: Competitive stats and an ok adventure combine into a very annoying to deal with grindy engine. This gives you multiple spells casts, ETBs and sacrifice fodder. I already have a bunch of Golgari cards in the cube so space is tight, but the fact that the front half is playable means you can probably get away with splashing for the adventure.
Questing Druid: The Adventure is good enough to be played in Red IMO as an instant speed Night's Whisper. There are cases where it's worse (Counterspells, 5+ drop drawn in the early game or other time sensitive cards), but it also has upsides over it. Under that lens, you get a free Quirion Dryad attached making it a draw 3 for 2. I wouldn't run the Dryad by itself, but as a bonus, why not!
Hearth Elemental: Contrary to the Druid above, I would play this for the creature half first and the Adventure as a bonus. Delve is super powerful and I think that even watered-down delve like on the Elemental is still worth it.
Meh maybes
Decadent Dragon: Another draw spell attached to some dude. This time however, the draw spell isn't as reliable. You draw from your opponent's deck, so you don't necessarily have the colors to cast what you drew. The dragon itself is a little vanilla in my cube, even if serviceable.
Scalding Viper: An ok removal spell attached to an ok creature. The biggest strike against the card is that the adventure is sorcery speed, although proactive decks might not care and use it to clear blockers. But that's the thing, I don't see wanting this in anything other than a proactive deck, which limits the usefulness.
Virtues + Whale: These are slightly subpar removal spells (for my power level) with big late-game relevance. Most of my removal spells are synergy driven, which I like more than power level driven right now.
There might be a few more that I missed, but that's it for now. Love the adventures and excited to try them out!
Interested
Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender: While I'm not a fan of the PW text, I do like everything else the card is doing.
Tough Cookie: Artifact matters is heavily supported in my cube, to the point where a cheap artifact creature creating another artifact is super relevant. Add to that a powerful mana sink and I am sold!
Pollen-Shield Hare: Anthems having a body greatly increases their playability for me, as I don't have to take a turn off affecting the board. While this only pumps tokens, that is still plenty powerful, especially with all the flying tokens the cube can create.
Speaking of anthems, with all the Adventure cards we are getting, I am going to have to give Leonin Lightscribe a second look for a prowess type aggro deck.
High maybes
Mosswood Dreadknight: Competitive stats and an ok adventure combine into a very annoying to deal with grindy engine. This gives you multiple spells casts, ETBs and sacrifice fodder. I already have a bunch of Golgari cards in the cube so space is tight, but the fact that the front half is playable means you can probably get away with splashing for the adventure.
Questing Druid: The Adventure is good enough to be played in Red IMO as an instant speed Night's Whisper. There are cases where it's worse (Counterspells, 5+ drop drawn in the early game or other time sensitive cards), but it also has upsides over it. Under that lens, you get a free Quirion Dryad attached making it a draw 3 for 2. I wouldn't run the Dryad by itself, but as a bonus, why not!
Hearth Elemental: Contrary to the Druid above, I would play this for the creature half first and the Adventure as a bonus. Delve is super powerful and I think that even watered-down delve like on the Elemental is still worth it.
Meh maybes
Decadent Dragon: Another draw spell attached to some dude. This time however, the draw spell isn't as reliable. You draw from your opponent's deck, so you don't necessarily have the colors to cast what you drew. The dragon itself is a little vanilla in my cube, even if serviceable.
Scalding Viper: An ok removal spell attached to an ok creature. The biggest strike against the card is that the adventure is sorcery speed, although proactive decks might not care and use it to clear blockers. But that's the thing, I don't see wanting this in anything other than a proactive deck, which limits the usefulness.
Virtues + Whale: These are slightly subpar removal spells (for my power level) with big late-game relevance. Most of my removal spells are synergy driven, which I like more than power level driven right now.
There might be a few more that I missed, but that's it for now. Love the adventures and excited to try them out!
Not really, but I do ellaborate on this philosophy whenever I can:
- I update my cube thread sporadically, and am thinking about doing a writeup covering this topic.
- I wrote a general synopsis on the complexity thread
- I wrote some of my plans of the making cube approachable thread
- I have my cubecobra blog where I have a short summary of each update
Uuuuuuh thank you for reminding me!
I totally forgot those and really liked them.
Currently I’m looking at these 20 for Ascension:
One of each art and card frame
One of each art and card frame
For my cube, balance is not so important to this section when it comes to power level. I am okay with But not happy about Bonded Herdbeast but haven’t found my interesting. I am not happy about there aren’t equal amount of cards in each color.
There are
5 white
6 blue
1 black
5 red
3 green
There kind of should be 4 of each color I think.
Any feedback is welcome <3
Last edited:
https://scryfall.com/search?q=c=1+ci=2
or ci>1 if you want them to have multiple other colors
I might not like edh that much as a format, but at least color identity is very useful for searches
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
So... two additional cards I want to talk about!
This card seriously impressed me during the prerelease. As a curve topper in an aggro deck, this is probably the best threaten I ever played with. Not only do you get to bash in your opponent's face with their own best creature, you get to dome your opponent for 3 on the following turn as well. Chef's kiss!
I always try to build a second (different) deck with my prize packs / unused card pool to pit against my prerelease deck for fun, and to get to know some cards better, and this one positively surprised me when I played with it! See, there are definitely ways to not make chapter III happen. Ways that lovers of Demonic Pact should be familiar with! Rebuying this is pretty satisfying, let me tell you
This card seriously impressed me during the prerelease. As a curve topper in an aggro deck, this is probably the best threaten I ever played with. Not only do you get to bash in your opponent's face with their own best creature, you get to dome your opponent for 3 on the following turn as well. Chef's kiss!
I always try to build a second (different) deck with my prize packs / unused card pool to pit against my prerelease deck for fun, and to get to know some cards better, and this one positively surprised me when I played with it! See, there are definitely ways to not make chapter III happen. Ways that lovers of Demonic Pact should be familiar with! Rebuying this is pretty satisfying, let me tell you