General CBS

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, keep it to Skype chats.

Does anyone else feel they were more satisfied with their Cube back in like, 2010? I love this place but part of me misses the days of innocently building normal-looking UB Control decks or whatever.

I am way happier with my cube than I used to be. There are a number of issues though. I imagine, if you kept your cube in your 2010 state you would have grown very unsatisfied with it.

That said, I don't know that all my changes are unilateral improvements. I still have mixed feelings about lifegain. It works, and it doesn't disrupt the environment too much, and is fun to play, but something feels not as "right" as the zombie archetype stuff, for example. I also liked my Zombie / sacrifice set-up better a few months ago and suspect I may be cramming too many themes in at the moment. Lifegain and Post are fun novelties, but do I want them around forever?

My favorite cube deck ever is still this one:
http://riptidelab.com/primeval-stronghold-playsession-report/
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I'll let Jason voice his own opinion on this, but building a community around shitting on other communities is not what I signed up for when I helped to start this site. You have an opinion. We get it. But your opinion doesn't speak for the rest of us. Publishing an article like that on the front page would be sending the message that we, as a community, are taking a collective dump on these folks we're singling out, and I don't think that most people here are comfortable standing behind that.


This sentiment has come up in the past and I'll echo what I said before. I think we should be defined more by what we are than what we aren't. Let that speak for itself. As far as I am concerned, MTGS doesn't exist. I don't think about it when I post, write articles or design. I don't go there, or strive to be better than them, or whatever.

I have my own opinions on other writers of course, but it all is fairly irrelevant with respect to RipLab. We're about producing good ideas and environments, and we're certainly not infallible either.

Let's come together and make some great(er) cubes.
 

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
I've been cubing for a long, long time and I have to say I'm having as much fun playing it now as I always have and am having less randomly shitty drafts due to some broken design element.

And less importantly, but in another way more importantly, I have more fun designing and developing then I ever have.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
I love my cube more than in 2010 because I'm down to 23 custom cards, from 110 at the time.
Evolution: Not leaning on a crutch :p
 

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
On topic of CML's article proposal, I recognize one name on his list of authors (Flores used to write for the Dojo a million years ago when I cared about constructed), so I really wouldn't "get it". I'm a hobbyist magic player playing in a casual format. The only thing I care about is making my cube more awesome, which this forum is very helpful in doing so. If everyone else in the world wants to play awful magic and read awful articles about magic, that's their prerogative. I get nothing from reading about it and really don't care. I think the occasional venting is healthy and even entertaining, but making a concerted effort to disparage people starts to kill the atmosphere.
 

CML

Contributor
CML, we don't doubt that you hate a lot of things about the Magic culture, and some of the specific people in that community. But why do you assume everyone else here is a contrarian asshole, like yourself? From what I can tell, there are very few people on this forum that fit that description.

I'll let Jason voice his own opinion on this, but building a community around shitting on other communities is not what I signed up for when I helped to start this site. You have an opinion. We get it. But your opinion doesn't speak for the rest of us. Publishing an article like that on the front page would be sending the message that we, as a community, are taking a collective dump on these folks we're singling out, and I don't think that most people here are comfortable standing behind that.


well, not everyone, but one of this site's achievements is IMO turning contrarianism into good ideas instead of playpen autos-da-fe you see elsewhere. i also don't see why anyone would have to make the logical leap of "published article X" ---> "opinions are the site's too," and why we should worry about that if they did, the idea that being loosely associated with someone who said something mean on the internet makes you mean too is, again, one of the worst things about mtg culture, and less a real idea than one of these geek social fallacies: http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html. i feel the same way about accusations of dickishness and defining-in-opposition too, for example, if someone accused a reviewer of those things after he ridiculed the skull-melting prose of JK Rowling, it wouldn't make any sense to say "yo be nicer to her and stop defining yourself in opposition to The Prisoner of Azkaban."

in light of these things, I'm still convinced the objections have little to do with the idea itself and almost everything to do with the environment of MTG culture, and that it'd be a good idea, but if y'all don't wanna give it a go, that's fine too, nbd :)
 
Personally the things I find tasteless in the typical/mainstream MTG culture are a small reason of what brought me to cube. It's on a casual-enough level that "pros" largely ignore it unless it's on modo. And both that the modo cube is shit (I can say shit, right?) and that these "pros" accept it, much less play it, keeps me away from their sites and writings.

My friends who attempt to play more competitively will constantly refer to so-and-so's deckname in conversation, and I just get that small opportunity to let my eyes glass over and think "How bad is giant growth, really?" for a few seconds.

I have nothing to contribute to the "how hard do we dump on other stuff" argument.

I'm not actually sure if I enjoy my cube more or not from it's original abomination-list. It's a lot more consistent, but I feel it simply does not produce fun-enough games, which often boil down to removal spell checks instead of building board state. Every little nudge I make in any kind of direction is met with pretty rough resistance by both my players and the sheer power of my low-power list. It's very hard to keep 'staples' and cool cards everyone likes to see when attempting to push new archetypes or color function. But as uh... they... say... work in progress. Always.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Every little nudge I make in any kind of direction is met with pretty rough resistance by both my players and the sheer power of my low-power list. It's very hard to keep 'staples' and cool cards everyone likes to see when attempting to push new archetypes or color function. But as uh... they... say... work in progress. Always.


This is why I ignore my playgroup 90% of the time :p
I mean sure, you need checks and balances in the design process, but you also need to ignore idiots.

I remember this quote from the lead designer of the pokemon games, something to the effect of
"Occasionally I get an email from a fan telling me everything that's wrong with the game and how to fix it. But if we left you in charge, pokemon would be a mess! You want only the origional 150 pokemon, but all the legendaries, and to have access to all 5 regions, and twelve starting pokemon...
Every time I get one of these emails I bring it to the development floor and read it aloud in a mocking voice. We get a big laugh out of it"
 

CML

Contributor
On topic for both:

http://www.salon.com/topic/the_hack_list/

i think a lot of us are constrained in development by the lack of good feedback from our playgroups. how do y'all find your players? i'm like the only one that attends tournaments, so i get a fun mix of casuals (usually homies from back in the day), casual-competitives (not people who are competitive about EDH, but casual about tournaments), and then other competition junkies like myself who despise the notion of 'the grind' but LOVE playing to win.

because of this i try to promote a relaxed cube atmosphere

i have no idea how to make magic friends i like outside of playing tournaments that are largely miserable
 
I have multiple pools of players, actually.

Group A largely already existed and congregates at my LGS. They're a mix of pro tour players, ex-grinders, random durdles and FNM heroes. None of them are outright bad but there are a few that are clearly ahead of the pack.
Group B consists mostly of my personal friends who have played magic at one point in their life and like to get together and battle every few weeks as part of 'game night' that's a random amount of people playing random amounts of games. "Power level" is much more varied but people generally understand cards they don't recognize.
Group C has a lot of new players and some who only kitchen table, and even then only rarely. They're mostly met in college and through other friends. These people get about half of my cube's total play, which has motivated me to remove newbie-unfriendly mechanics (transform, morph, stifles) and after doing so I don't feel like I'm missing out.

Group A gives a lot of very direct and opinionated feedback that pretty much reflects what kind of magic they like to play (WHY DON'T YOU HAVE STORM) so it's largely safe to completely ignore. Group B doesn't always know what's going on but can make some decent points and suggestions now and then. Group C actually helps the most. They recount specific plays easily, because they were awesome or it felt like shit to have something happen, and I can easily translate that to list implications.
 

CML

Contributor
You just used a lot of large words in an attempt to justify being a dick.



no no no no no no. the MTGS response would be "take that shit elsewhere" but fuck that, let's chop it up instead. in my experience, it's the idea that so much as breathing a single word that might hint at criticism of someone's work (let alone someone) that's been used (in the vein of "i'm offended") to justify much, much more dickishness than it's combated. why can't if you don't believe me, look at the culture on RiptideLab and look at the culture everywhere else.

on the mothership or on SCG they'll either use non-words like "professionalism" and "respect" and "offensive" to justify being dicks, or they just won't acknowledge doing it at all. not a single peep from SCG about firing Reuben B., for example, and he's a great dude, fairly outspoken as MTG culture goes. he was furious he got shitcanned, yet his parting shot was full of falsehoods like "no bad blood" -- and for what? when they said "bend over," he bent over.

it's not a stretch to say that this attitude is what lets wotc get away with treating its player base like shit. why treat them better if they aren't even gonna speak up about it? Ceddy P. for example works 60-hour weeks and is paid ~$40k. when they say it's a "children's card game," they mean not that it has strategic depth befitting a child, but that immersing yourself in MTG culture will turn you into a child. look at MTGS and tell me this isn't true; it's the tip of the iceberg. childhood can be combatted with money, but the only way to make money from MTG is to work for wizards, and it's an open secret among my circles in seattle that working for wizards is miserable. modo for example isn't a piece of shit not because we have no programmers here (hehe) but because they pay the programmers <50% of a competitive salary. the people who would work for that are therefore only cultists, and the cultists reinforce the "you're a dick" garbage. only cultists (i include myself) would spend money on such a program. cultists need to be designed for, leading to bad limited and Standard formats as we've had in the last year or so. everything is affected, including the game itself. we can't escape all of that, even when we're cubing with people we like at home, but we can minimize it by adopting a more realistic attitude towards it, which is what we're trying to do here AFAIK. acknowledging stuff like http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html exists, and not taking it seriously, is a good first step...

by contrast:

very good, but you could write an equally scathing entry about Pareene himself (to say nothing of Salon...)

yeah, duh. isn't that the point? would he get butt-hurt about it and call for their heads? does his article make him subject to blackballing and unemployable everywhere else? would a movement to have him discredited as a dick, universally, be treated with the same masturbatory onanism in the writing world that it is here? if you compare MTG culture to more or less any other culture, this reflexive "you're a dick" BS will look as ridiculous as it is.

when most any context exposes the absurdity of MTG culture, it's tempting to say that the culture is unique, that it inhabits a weird space where you can care enough to praise it, but you can't care enough to condemn any aspect; where you can care enough to put yourself out there as a public figure to be praised yourself, but where you're not out there enough to be subject to the same kind of detached analysis you see in the pareene article. the truth is, it's far from unique. the flipside of external support is internal strife, and the inverse of complete acceptance is complete rejection. the gentleman on the last page who wrote "there's no business rivalry" was hinting at something profound here. wizards means for us to all be "wizards employees."

and for what? if they want me to have professionalism, they can treat me like a professional. in the meantime, i'll enjoy the luxury of saying what i want, cultivating an open exchange of ideas that tries to be as free of these undercurrents of corporate paranoia as possible, and actually liking my friends. again, that's what we do here, isn't it? that's why RipLab works.
 

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
I want to know if there are mods for MTGO. It's such a clunky awful program, full of bugs, absolutely no fun to use, and yet a huge portion of magic players are programmers. So why have I never heard of mods for it? Somebody must have tried to make it playable.
 

CML

Contributor


don't forget this bomb for karametra decks



James: not what you're looking for but I once heard an ORC say, "CML: I've been a babysitter before but I can't comment on either pay, I'm afraid"
 

CML

Contributor
i think i'm gonna write an article, 'when to lie to the judge,' any interest in publishing that?
 

CML

Contributor
how about "missed triggers"? usually we just go back. I had to give one of our 19yo wunderkinden (sp?) a stern talking-to after he got all twatty about my casual friend's inability to grok Sylvan Library the first time around. stuff like that either makes me despair for that kind of person or magic culture, maybe both. maybe a lot of both?

maybe the policy would have to be different if there were money at stake, but none of us really draft with entry fees that aren't beer and weed, right?
 
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