General CBS
- Thread starter James Stevenson
- Start date
If you feel like it is an issue that green is the best color to do splashes from (Green + splashing another color), then you can let the other four colors be Treasure token colors.
Not an original thought, I know now that I've written it down. It felt original in my head.
Luckily the other four colors are all very good at running a sufficient artifact theme so there's the get-in ticket right there.
Not an original thought, I know now that I've written it down. It felt original in my head.
Luckily the other four colors are all very good at running a sufficient artifact theme so there's the get-in ticket right there.
Then you’re not one of those people that this suits “If you feel like it is an issue that green is the best color to do splashes from”
Anyone executing a successful artifact and or enchantment theme?
What percentage of your cube is artifact or enchantment? Theros is ~33% enchantments, Mirrodin is ~45% artifacts, Mirrodin2 is ~33% artifacts. Surely we don't need that high. A little more concerned about enchantments, as artifacts are much easier to slot in, but I'll take anything.
Any anecdotal experience or super nerd math?
What percentage of your cube is artifact or enchantment? Theros is ~33% enchantments, Mirrodin is ~45% artifacts, Mirrodin2 is ~33% artifacts. Surely we don't need that high. A little more concerned about enchantments, as artifacts are much easier to slot in, but I'll take anything.
Any anecdotal experience or super nerd math?
I run an artifact theme in my cube but the cube as a whole is not about artifacts. I think you only need a handful of payoffs and then simply replacing a few spells by spellbombs, artifact creatures and so on.
That said, I'm increasinly artifacting my cube, though.
That said, I'm increasinly artifacting my cube, though.
We've had threads about this from a while ago that could be dug through, might be some numbers there somewhere:
https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/how-to-execute-a-minimalist-artifact-theme.681/
https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/how-to-execute-a-minimalist-enchantment-theme.865/
https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/how-to-execute-a-minimalist-artifact-theme.681/
https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/how-to-execute-a-minimalist-enchantment-theme.865/
Also relevant is this allstar post from @dbs : Chasing the Artifact Deck
in my experience, no.
Could you please elaborate this further? I am really interested in your experience. Is it too parasitic an archetype?
It's like the artifact archetype in some ways, but enchantments are another step down in generic usefulness. They don't have the benefit of largely being colorless, and there aren't easy includes like mana rocks and baubles in nearly as high a quantity as artifacts. Additionally a lot of the enablers are set up around casting enchantments and/or enchantments ETBing, which puts you into an A then B archetype, which is harder to make work in general. Artifacts have plenty of enablers that sacrifice artifacts, recur artifacts, count artifacts, etc. that make the decks more multifunctional.
There aren't enough generically useful enchantments to be worth deploying the package except in lower powered environments. Artifacts were in this same boat until around 2019 when they printed a lot more cards that synergized with artifacts like Urza, Lord High Artificer, Goblin Engineer and Saheeli, Sublime Artificer. There are more serviceable enchantment creatures than there were in the past with the printings from Theros Beyond Death, but it's still very self contained without a lot of generically solid inclusions that work in other archetypes. You need more incidental synergies for archetypes like this to be viable, kind of like how artifact decks have the likes of Whirler Rogue and Pia Nalaar or artifact lands to artificially up the count. Enchantments can't really emulate that yet.
Yeah, artifacts include a bunch of cogs like Spellbombs, and Chromatic Star, plus lots of cards make artifact tokens (treasure, clues, Thopters, Servos). Enchantments have none of these benefits, so way, way harder to have the same density and even if you do, it's often a bunch of pieces of other archetypes, or build-arounds smushed together in a deck that relies a lot on drawing a few very powerful payoffs to make up for the mess that the enablers are.
If you warp your environment around this restriction like Theros and THB do, it gets much more feasible, but then you're spending a lot of real estate for an archetype that is not that interesting.
If you warp your environment around this restriction like Theros and THB do, it gets much more feasible, but then you're spending a lot of real estate for an archetype that is not that interesting.
Compounding this problem, there are a bunch of fine-to-great Artifact Creatures and approximately only five Enchantment Creatures that work at the power levels most cubes strive for (Dryad of the Ilysian Grove, Courser of Kruphix, and a handful of the Gods, notably). Bestow helps a bit, but the problem is that there's something that all of these creatures share, and that's the fact that they tend to cost 3 or more. With artifacts, Gingerbrute and Vault Skirge are great, Chronomaton is tolerable, Spellbombs exist, and then your options positively explode at MV 2, so you have a lot more options for cheap plays. Sure, enchantments have things like Legion's Landing, but they're few and far between, and without those cheap ways to affect the board while getting value from your synergy it's hard to even get into the game let alone put up a fight against a more traditional deck.
what you’ll also find generally is that you put in a bunch of work to make the enchantment archetype work, and then you play it, and it’s not a very fun deck to play
Delirium is one of the best enchantment-tangential mechanics IMO, because it's asking the player to find creative ways to get card types in the Grave, and enchantments are a unique addition to most graveyards. So the most luck I've had with adding enchantments for a specific purpose is when pushing delirium, and it was cards like vessel of nascency.
As I'm looking at it, I began to worry about that.
I had already decided that I'll keep a bit higher enchantment density for this, even if it doesn't work out as a full deck.
"Enchantmentcraft" keyword would really help.
All the upcoming set are officially cancelled unless Hello Kamigawa has good Shrines in it.
The next set is now Theros Way Beyond Death featuring the Enchantmentcraft keyword and more black devotion. Devotion has been mysteriously removed from nonblack colors.
After that will be Game of Thrones of Eldraine featuring more cards that care about artifacts and/or enchantments, primarily in WB.
Thank you for your understanding.
The next set is now Theros Way Beyond Death featuring the Enchantmentcraft keyword and more black devotion. Devotion has been mysteriously removed from nonblack colors.
After that will be Game of Thrones of Eldraine featuring more cards that care about artifacts and/or enchantments, primarily in WB.
Thank you for your understanding.
And after that it‘s ‚Dune down the Power‘. That expansion will be spicy and sandworm its way into our dark hearts of the wood.
After that we‘ll get Secret Lair Teela and Mistresses of the Universe, introducing the keyword ‚unwatchable‘.