Chris Taylor
Contributor
....by putting multicolored spells in your opponent's deck?
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- Thread starter James Stevenson
- Start date
I was also gonna ask this but I assume it's "by not putting multicolored spells in your own deck"?
this year's new Hearthstone Priest deck from Return to Gadgetzan...
alternate joke: you dont need to put multicolored spells in my deck, i will put plenty there myself
Most decks run more than a few! And you can play around it by running fewer, which is more feasible in artifact-heavy decks. It's certainly the least of the 2-mana 3-power artifact dudes, but it's not entirely without merit, is my point.
Surge Engine is one of the most underrated cards from last year, fitting into all sorts of blue decks as a solid roleplayer. It may be the 20th card in a lot of decks, but creatures categorized in the blue section are generally one note or generically powerful, where Surge Engine works with different archetypes in neat ways while also having a solid enough baseline to be a stopgap measure for control decks or a midrange contributor.
A really dumb idea that I've not been able to make anything out of (mostly because my cubing brain hasn't worked properly in a while):
Both players start with (10, maybe?) life and the following:
Convalescent Care is an emblem. The Knight's just a dude that you can aim removal at.
The play dynamic that I'm interested in here is that the Convalescent Care punishes incidental damage pretty hard, meaning that you have to build up resources for a big push (with a pitstop at 6 life - I'm not sure if it's interesting or dumb that there are situations where dealing more damage slows down your clock...). The Knight is also interesting as a tool/roadblock - it eats small attackers and raises the threshold where damage actually serves as a clock.
Both players start with (10, maybe?) life and the following:
Convalescent Care is an emblem. The Knight's just a dude that you can aim removal at.
The play dynamic that I'm interested in here is that the Convalescent Care punishes incidental damage pretty hard, meaning that you have to build up resources for a big push (with a pitstop at 6 life - I'm not sure if it's interesting or dumb that there are situations where dealing more damage slows down your clock...). The Knight is also interesting as a tool/roadblock - it eats small attackers and raises the threshold where damage actually serves as a clock.
I want you to know that I personally like most of your creative ideas for cubes! Just not this one.
Many of you will be familiar with the multitalented Caleb Gannon, PhD from his powered synergy cube which appeared on Magic Online. But did you know that he is launching a game on kickstarter that is heavily influenced by MtG and cubing? I am tempted, but am interested to hear views from others who may have seen this.
Thank you. I just read it. It seems great, not rules complex, but very play complex with maybe a tad keyword soup. Maybe best to play it sober/not tired?
I am on the fence to kick it or not.
Looting into Reanimate into Archon of Atraxabrand isn't going to work in cube unless you're on some sort of powermax. Even then, this style of reanimator deck leads to a very "did you combo?" kind of game. The reanimator player either gets there and doesn't. The game can feel almost like a goldfish.
For a lower power level, let's replace some of the components:
Top tier reanimation: Oliphaunt into Reanimate gives a significant advantage worth drafting around without being entirely backbreaking.
Top tier threats: Zombify into Archon of Atraxabrand allows you to drop a devastating threat, but not before the game has had an opportunity to develop, giving the opponent a fighting chance.
Thoughts on this kind of concept? Which seems stronger? Which would you rather play with? Which would you rather play against?
For a lower power level, let's replace some of the components:
Top tier reanimation: Oliphaunt into Reanimate gives a significant advantage worth drafting around without being entirely backbreaking.
Top tier threats: Zombify into Archon of Atraxabrand allows you to drop a devastating threat, but not before the game has had an opportunity to develop, giving the opponent a fighting chance.
Thoughts on this kind of concept? Which seems stronger? Which would you rather play with? Which would you rather play against?
I find Reanimate in particular a very powerful, flexible, and efficient midrange card. There are lots of cute ways to use it, including stealing your opponent's guys. Reanimating your cyclers to get typically 4+/4+ power and toughness for 1 mana is very efficient. I'm strongly considering swapping all my reanimation spells out for multiple copies of Reanimate just because of how easily you can shift your deck between fair and combo strategies. But to be clear, Oliphaunt into Reanimate is still getting you a 2 mana 6/4, this is still way up toward the power ceiling.
This is what I do. I mean, I have a low power cube so it's not "Archon of Atraxabrand"-tier threats, but players can cheat out stuff that would have been good enough in 2013-era cubes at around turn 4, after the aggro decks have put out a lot of pressure. My only cheap reanimation is Unearth-tier.
Could you post examples?
Stuff like Angel of Glory's Rise (combo piece), Astral Dragon (same), Inkwell Leviathan, Hoarding Broodlord, Bogardan Hellkite, Craterhoof Behemoth (situational), Myr Battlesphere, Ancient Stone Idol, Metalwork Colossus.
Big dumb idiots, some of whom stabilize you, many of whom have other ways of getting into play, almost all of whom were in 2013 cubes. I can go through my list to look for the other stuff that's like, 7+ mana, but I'm pretty sure that's it for the big hits. No one really wants to Flashback Dread Return for an Eternal Dragon or Bedlam Reveller. Until recently I also ran Angel of Serenity, kinda regret the cut a little and am thinking of adding her back in, so add her to the list IG.
I do run a lot of pieces to get the big boys in the bin - lotta dredge, lotta discard-as-cost, Entomb and Gamble, etc. Plus my removal suite is catered to letting big battlecruisery plays be worth it - Wraths are more along the lines of Ritual of Soot rather than Damnation.
Sleeper hit is definitely Astral Dragon. It's pretty funny with Necromancy, as you can turn the 3/3's into ETB or Dies triggers of anything else you've pitched/milled - can even be the same creature twice. That gets even better with a clone in the bin (I run a lot of those for Fish, not likely to happen in just any cube) as you go infinite. You also go infinite with any o-ring that can hit the big dragon in play (So no to Glass Casket, but yes to Journey to Nowhere or Fiend Hunter). It's also a combo that can be interacted with, as there's no haste on the tokens.
Big dumb idiots, some of whom stabilize you, many of whom have other ways of getting into play, almost all of whom were in 2013 cubes. I can go through my list to look for the other stuff that's like, 7+ mana, but I'm pretty sure that's it for the big hits. No one really wants to Flashback Dread Return for an Eternal Dragon or Bedlam Reveller. Until recently I also ran Angel of Serenity, kinda regret the cut a little and am thinking of adding her back in, so add her to the list IG.
I do run a lot of pieces to get the big boys in the bin - lotta dredge, lotta discard-as-cost, Entomb and Gamble, etc. Plus my removal suite is catered to letting big battlecruisery plays be worth it - Wraths are more along the lines of Ritual of Soot rather than Damnation.
Sleeper hit is definitely Astral Dragon. It's pretty funny with Necromancy, as you can turn the 3/3's into ETB or Dies triggers of anything else you've pitched/milled - can even be the same creature twice. That gets even better with a clone in the bin (I run a lot of those for Fish, not likely to happen in just any cube) as you go infinite. You also go infinite with any o-ring that can hit the big dragon in play (So no to Glass Casket, but yes to Journey to Nowhere or Fiend Hunter). It's also a combo that can be interacted with, as there's no haste on the tokens.
i like your way of going about it quite a bit and i think it makes really good sense for cubes that want to go mid-power or just run fatties in general.
personally i would rather run reanimate and just police the quality of threats you can get with it - i think Titania (the good one) is still my best-case t2 cheat scenario.
personally i would rather run reanimate and just police the quality of threats you can get with it - i think Titania (the good one) is still my best-case t2 cheat scenario.
I lean into the first approach, it makes the individual cards more approachable in other decks, instead of always looking to be used as an A+B combo. I'd never put a Zombify into my deck, but I could see myself adding Animate Dead to highroll someone off a discard spell or just to bring back a Sedgemoor Witch or whatever I hit with a removal spell in a normal game of magic. And if someone does hit something juicy, the game doesn't immediately end because of how strong the reanimation target is. Sure, The Balrog of Moria might have hit you for 7, but they're not miles ahead in resources, and the discrepancy in what you can reanimate doesn't feel as feast or famine for the one doing it either.
I had the same thought. One mana cyclers and Reanimate, etc, are much more playable in nontraditional reanimator.
For sure lol. "Lower power" mostly meant not turn 1-2 unbeatable bomb.
Those are still sweet on turn 4.
This is my main reason to lean towards the lower mana value method. The cards are more generally playable. You'd only run Zombify to slam a Griselbrand. Conversely, you'd only play Griselbrand if you had a few Zombifys. You'll run Reanimate and Oliphaunt in quite a few decks.
Another way to get lower power targets is to run spells with powerful cast triggers like Shard of the Nightbringer and Desolation Twin. Unfortunately, Annihilator Eldrazi and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger are still probably too powerful on those early turns. I like the idea of a big "regular" creature that can be blocked and has a reasonable amount of counterplay. The would be useful in a format where you anticipate that people might get a chance to hardcast the bombs.
A big part of the problem is that there just aren't that many options. It's Reanimate, Animate Dead, Persist, then Necromancy and then what, either Victimize or Resurrection? I'd advocate for the 2- or 3-mana options to split the difference, even if they're a little clunkier. Persist is particularly clean.
I'd like to add Recurring Nightmare and Dread Return to that list.
The tier I play with is like, Dread Return down. Necromancy, Victimize, Diabolic Servitude, Unburial Rites. Plus Living Death (And maybe Lich Knight's Conquest now), but that's a totally different deck.
The tier I play with is like, Dread Return down. Necromancy, Victimize, Diabolic Servitude, Unburial Rites. Plus Living Death (And maybe Lich Knight's Conquest now), but that's a totally different deck.
recurring nightmare is so fun
@blacksmithy
Looking into custom powered cube. Cards get more custom as you go. First few are examples of each fixing cycle. I'd love advice on the last 10.
Looking into custom powered cube. Cards get more custom as you go. First few are examples of each fixing cycle. I'd love advice on the last 10.
I know I'm a bit late to the party here, but I have some thoughts.
1. While there is a relatively even distribution in threat power level for reanimator, ranging from Colossal Dreadmaw and Spirit of the Night on the low power end all the way up to Atraxa, Grand Unifier and Griselbrand on the high power end, the actual reanimation spells do not. It's almost like The Grand Canyon. On one side, you have Reanimate, Animate Dead, Exhume, and other one and two mana reanimation effects. On the other side, you have cards like Unburial Rites, Zombify, and Incarnation Technique which are pretty good but not nearly as efficient. But, the center between those two power levels and the "river" in the middle of the canyon essentially consists of Necromancy and nothing else, at least for unrestricted reanimation effects.
2. Because the power distribution of reanimation effects is not even, balancing reanimation falls more on the end of choosing the correct targets for the environment. Sure, you have to pick between the high-power or one of the various lower-power clusters of reanimation effects for your Cube, but you can make up the difference by selecting more appropriate targets. For example, you might find that the broken reanimation spells with bad targets is still a little too good for your Cube, or restricts your top-end creature pool so much that you can't do what you're looking for. In that case, it might be better to play worse reanimation effects and better targets, just not the literal best cards. Instead of reaching for the S-teir targets like Atraxa, Grand Unifier and Griselbrand, you may opt for B-tier or C-tier options like Woodfall Primus or Waker of Waves.
3. If you end up having to pick "lower power" reanimation, you also have the option of picking effects that are capable of being used in non-combo decks or are capable of reanimating multiple times. Unburial Rites is a good midrange card if your deck is full of big beaters with reasonably powerful ETB effects, such as Siege Rhino and Thragtusk. Meanwhile, Incarnation Technique and Whip of Erebos are capable of giving a player the opportunity to reanimate multiple creatures with only one card. This rewards decks that are able to efficiently stock the graveyard with good targets without forcing them to go all in on one spell.
I've opted for the approach of using A and B-tier reanimation targets (Stuff like Archon of Cruelty, Apex Altisaur, and Dragonlord Atarka, but no Griselbrand or Atraxa, Grand Unifier), and weaker but flexible reanimation. I try to keep my reanimation fairly open-ended, so while there are a couple reanimator specific cards like Incarnation Technique and Whip of Erebos, the other cards such as The Cruelty of Gix, No One Left Behind, and Unburial Rites all have homes in other decks (or are just generically good). I like this approach because it lets me keep a reanimator deck in my format without having it feel like a glass cannon– it's basically a midrange deck with a powerful but beatable combo finish.