Sets [ELD] Throne of Eldraine

[Chris Taylor]

I wonder if there's some filter land laden mana base that makes these CCC cards more paletable

 

[TrainmasterGT]

I wonder if there's some filter land laden mana base that makes these CCC cards more paletable

But are any of the CCC cards worth playing outside of a monocolor deck anyway? Also, the blue wizard noble guy is probably fine in most cubes anyway. It's Blue Sun's Zenith on legs!

 

[Chris Taylor]

But are any of the CCC cards worth playing outside of a monocolor deck anyway? Also, the blue wizard noble guy is probably fine in most cubes anyway. It's Blue Sun's Zenith on legs!

That's my thought, right? Is there a manabase that makes goblin chainwhirler in a 2 color deck feel doable without just feeling like 5 color goodstuff

 

[TrainmasterGT]

That's my thought, right? Is there a manabase that makes goblin chainwhirler in a 2 color deck feel doable without just feeling like 5 color goodstuff

It would probably involve something like 30 fetchlands and 20 typed duals. You skew towards fetches so that people have to pick their colors a little more wisely. I think that its better when trying to facilitate more colors to include more fixing instead of weirder fixing- the filter lands just aren't all that great compared to the other options in my opinion.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

These two cards seem super cool, but not very playable:

This card might actually be good as a 2-mana "destroy target attacking creature. You gain three life" effect on a stick. It seems very good with a bunch of knights!

This is so cool! I love reanimation, and I think the fact that this wants you to stock the graveyard before casting it makes it feel fairer. I think this card is absurd, in a good way!

I just want to spin it off of my Combustible Gearhulk

 

[Brad]

Broom is great for anyone whose seen Fantasia.

Knight seems like a potential blowout.

I'm offended you didn't tag me for the cauldron.

This probably makes it for me, but I'm not thrilled.

R/G hybrid is a 5/5 for 4. That's decent.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

R/G hybrid is a 5/5 for 4. That's decent.

Told you the nonblack ones where the only ones with a chance at being decent

 

[Velrun]

Dear Brad

Castle Locthwain has been spoiled. I won’t share it here just to keep you in suspense but it is for you, enjoy

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Dear Brad

Castle Locthwain has been spoiled. I won’t share it here just to keep you in suspense but it is for you, enjoy

Oh. Oh! That's a nice one!

The blue one is also really solid!

 

[Aston]

Egregious error on this card. Squires are 1/2s!!!!!

 

[Velrun]

Why are the castles not legendary? Are there more Castle Vantresses?

Squires are smaller the Knights. That is all you need to confirm with each squire/knight print

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Why are the castles not legendary? Are there more Castle Vantresses?

I believe this purely a mechanical decision. I believe MaRo stated somewhere that they dislike legendary lands nowadays...

/searching

Found it! Here's the article. The relevant quote is from the part where he discusses Maze's End.

Ever since this card was previewed I keep getting the same question: why isn't this land legendary? There are two answers to this question:

1. We really don't do legendary lands any more: For starters, the game play of a legendary land isn't great. You need to put four copies in your deck to make sure you draw it early (it's land, after all) but you can't play the others. And then all the other copies turn into Strip Mine (a card infamous for being fun-sucking). It's also easy to get two in play without realizing it because they sit with the lands, which aren't as scrutinized. It's a mess, so other than very rare exceptions (Eye of Ugin, I'm ironically looking at you), we don't use them.
2. The creative doesn't really need them to be legendary: Lands don't actually represent lands in the game, but rather they represent links to the mana found within the land. Any one particular place can be tapped multiple times for mana. You may not be able to have two copies of the same character but you can have multiple mana taps of the same place.

If we made an exception to Eye of Ugin, why not make one here? Because with the Eye of Ugin, we only wanted you to have one in play at a time, so we were able to use the legendary supertype as much for a mechanical restriction as we were using it for flavor. Maze's End didn't have this issue. We were fine with you having four in play.

Squires are smaller the Knights. That is all you need to confirm with each squire/knight print

Liar!

 

[Velrun]

LOL

That article is from April 2013. It is from before the legendary rule change and then the other legendary rule change.

Their argument for not liking legendary lands are as follows according to your link:
1. You need to put 4 into your deck in order to draw it early. (This argument is true for any card and not just legendary lands...)
2. Your legendary lands turns into Strip Mines if enemy has the same on the board (No longer true)
3. Creative doesn't like legendary lands (Only fair argument)

Those two Knight/Squire print are not from the same set. They are therefore not a Knight/Squire print but a Knight + Squire print
Knights should be bigger than Squires on any given plane unless something weird is going on. However Squires on giant planes could be bigger than Knights on dwarf planes (Example)

 

[Onderzeeboot]

2. Your legendary lands turns into Strip Mines if enemy has the same on the board (No longer true)

You singled out the only part of that argument that is no longer true. The other two still hold: 1a) You can't play the others, and 1c) It's also easy to get two of them in pay, because they sit with the lands, which aren't as scrutinized.

Also, looking at the sets since M2014, I don't think they changed their minds. There have been exactly two legendary lands in a Standard legal set since Eye of Ugin:Geier Reach Sanitarium and Inventor's Fair. In both cases, it seems to me they had a mechanical reason to do so. There have been the assortment of legendary cards that turn into legendary lands in Ixalan, but in that case it seems more of a flavor decision to add a bunch of "legendary locations" to the set. Meanwhile, we've had...



All depicting unique places in the world, while not being legendary, after the new legend rule took effect.

Also...

 

[Velrun]

All these are surprisingly easy to turn into Basic lands without the Basic land type.

 

[safra]

These two are very interesting to me. There's a new white three drop knight with a lot of cool theme intersection stuff but these are broadly playable without themes I think. Bonus points if you curve that MH1 double 2/2 changelings for 2ww into the giant wrath

 

[shamizy]

Oh man, I've been looking for more ULD inclusions for lands producing a single color and this new cycle is perfect. All of them offer that upside that isn't quite game-breaking, not strong enough for main cube play, but do enough to be worth the inclusion in ULD and also incentivize drafters towards focusing on one color for the base of their decks. Huge fan of the designs here, especially the Blue and Black lands. Initially I was ehh on the Green one, but then I remembered dorks and it became way more palatable as a T3 play to power out a 6 mana dude ahead of curve.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

These two are very interesting to me. There's a new white three drop knight with a lot of cool theme intersection stuff but these are broadly playable without themes I think. Bonus points if you curve that MH1 double 2/2 changelings for 2ww into the giant wrath

These both seem really sweet!

 

[TrainmasterGT]

These two are very interesting to me. There's a new white three drop knight with a lot of cool theme intersection stuff but these are broadly playable without themes I think. Bonus points if you curve that MH1 double 2/2 changelings for 2ww into the giant wrath

I actually really like the Giant!! I'm probably going to test him if I open him, although he seems like the sort of card the Standard Players and Commander Timmies are gonna spike.

 

[Velrun]

Initially I was ehh on the Green one, but then I remembered dorks and it became way more palatable as a T3 play to power out a 6 mana dude ahead of curve.

It is possible of course but it would require:
1 Land that ETB untapped and can cast a T1 ramp.
1 Land
1 Specific Castle Garenbrig land.
1 Ramp spell that costs 1.
1 Ramp spell that costs 1, 2 or 3.
1 Fattie that costs exactly 6 mana. (You can’t cast it if it costs 7 mana and you don’t need the Castle if it costs 5)

If you have all this then you can cast your Primeval Titan on turn 3.

Ps I also love the designs of these lands. The four non-green ones seem a little strong actually because their requirement are so small and the upside so huge.

 

[Velrun]

Let me try from a different angle:

Why do we have 10 legendary lands on Ixalan who all depicted unique and important locations when these five unique and important locations on Eldraine aren’t legendary? The difference is how they enter the battlefield but none of the reasons in the 2013 article affects this in any way.

 

[Seeker]

Every set it's like "surely this green two drop will be great for green aggro, despite it costing GG", I think this time I might actually have learned my lesson and I won't try it.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

That's because the lands on Ixalan are the exception, the five courts are the norm, and the five courts not being legendary is still dictated by the same principles as outlined in 2013 (minus the Strip Mine argument, obviously). There's no mechanical need for the courts to be legendary, so they are not. The Ixalan flip lands, however, have a reason to be legendary on the front (i.e. non-land) side, and I think the main reason the backside is a legendary land, is because you expect the permanent to stay legendary. They're these small two-beat stories of the challenge you have to overcome / the legendary feat performed on the front side, with the back side representing the legendary location in the world associated with that challenge / legendary feat. Note that there are also non legendary flip lands, with the front side not representing a unique event or item. The fact that the legendary flip lands start out as legendary enchantments (or a legendary artifact in the case of Azor's Gateway) is actually the primary reason why they remain legendary on the land side. Compare to the, also, unique Arch of Orazca, which is a non legendary land from the same block, but did get the regular "lands don't need to be legendary unless special reasons" treatment.

 

[Erik Twice]

Ultimately, one should remember "Legendary" is awkard from a design perspective because it implies a thematic element yet it's also a drawback.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Let me try from a different angle:

Why do we have 10 legendary lands on Ixalan who all depicted unique and important locations when these five unique and important locations on Eldraine aren’t legendary? The difference is how they enter the battlefield but none of the reasons in the 2013 article affects this in any way.

Because the ten on Ixalan start as Legendary Enchantments. They're not a part of your land base so much as they are just spells. In that case, making them legendary wouldn't have had an inverse effect on gameplay. Since the castle lands are just regular lands, making them legendary would mean that they would have a pretty significant drawback that could completely screw up a deck's manabase. The flavor isn't worth the gameplay issues.