Chris Taylor
Contributor
Damnit you're right.
Ah well. Suddently I'm not expecting anything good from this mechanic. Hopefully it's on spells I guess? That might be cool
Sets [FRF] Fate Reforged spoilers
- Thread starter anotak
- Start date
Damnit you're right.
Ah well. Suddently I'm not expecting anything good from this mechanic. Hopefully it's on spells I guess? That might be cool
I think that its removal mode is better than the one on Selesnya Charm, which is something I run but almost never exile creatures with in cube. Being indestructible for two mana isn't nearly as useful as something like, say, Gods Willing, but combined with its Reprisal-like mode, I think Valorous Stance might be a card.
You're also forgetting the cardinal rule of this site (other than to design good cubes): filter everything Lucas says through his lens of "does this card work in my UWR control deck?"
Chris Taylor
Contributor
There is also the problem that charm also produces a threat. Also, +2/+2 and trample seems a lot more blowouty to my mind than indestructable. I dunno.
Could be good, I did actually run reprisal for a while there, so maybe. 4 toughness is a lot, and I cut reprisal because 4 power was so hard to find too.
Yeah, Selesnya Charm has been much better than I expected in cube, and I don't think I've ever seen it cast here for its removal mode. Like you mentioned, pump and trample leads to some insta-lethal gibs, while the flash body is almost always good when pump isn't. It's mostly that GW aggro wants some instant speed tricks to pack alongside its ~17 bodies, and Selesnya Charm is one of the best available.
I wish Valorous Stance did a little more on the front end.
I wish Valorous Stance did a little more on the front end.
What am I taking over good removal in aggro decks? Aggro creatures? Puhleaze!
Maybe like a finks or like a really good dual or skullclamp type of thing? I'm probably hurting my deck more (table wise) if I let those things pass than if I let a STPS pass, still I'm pretty sure most people here don't cube cards that are that much better than path for an aggro deck on principle (lets say journey or like that will of the council one for those who think path and swords are vile).
Anywhoo my other knock against this bad boy is that it's kind very much a SB card in everything but the aggro decks unless you are playing a really midranged format. Even on our midranged bombs we've moved away from the era of big idiots into the era of value + body. How amazing does this card feel against say thragtusk, cloudgoat, huntmaster, skinrender? What's your saturation of targets? Which decks require removal the most? Are the decks that play a lot of removal so good that you want to be seeing your format with counterspells mainly there to give them a hard time?
Given that the aggro decks get first pick of removal because very few other decks want to get invested really early in jackal pups or lions without incentive (ie force multipliers like clamp or draft multipliers like first picking top tier removal) and that this card is pretty much only for aggro decks to hose control and midranged, I just don't think it's a healthy part of my daily breakfast, but I have been wrong before lol.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Sylesnya charm is so sweet I almost want it to cost 2 colorless, despite the weird fucking decks that would make
Ghostfire as the +? Cute
- is the real ticket! Being able to x-for-none your opponent and start recharging at a pretty substantial rate quickly spells doom to anyone in topdeck mode.
Ult is an ult. Interesting that the - is so destructive and the ult is so growth-flavored. What's this guy's deal anyway?
I kind of wish I could have something between this guy and karn: karn's powerful spot removal but not such a fast-growing threat on such an annoying ult.
- is the real ticket! Being able to x-for-none your opponent and start recharging at a pretty substantial rate quickly spells doom to anyone in topdeck mode.
Ult is an ult. Interesting that the - is so destructive and the ult is so growth-flavored. What's this guy's deal anyway?
I kind of wish I could have something between this guy and karn: karn's powerful spot removal but not such a fast-growing threat on such an annoying ult.
It seems we finally got a more cubable Nicol Bolas.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Oh. Oh my. *each* permanent... I totally missed that on the first read-through. I like how Nicol and Ugin being archenemies seeps down through the design. I wonder if this turns out less oppressive than Karn Liberated (which would be a good thing).
Personally, I appreciate that despite Ugin's power, there's almost no situation where he beats Bolas on the board.
P1: Play my ugin, bomb the board.
P2: Bolas, destroy Ugin.
Or
P2: Play my Bolas, blow up something silly.
P1: Play Ugin and...uh...bomb the board?
P2: That's cute. Bolas, destroy Ugin.
You can't even set it up so Ugin kills Bolas unless the opponent IMMEDIATELY fires off Bolas' -2 & THEN you get bolas.
...but then they have one of your creatures to smack Ugin back with.
P1: Play my ugin, bomb the board.
P2: Bolas, destroy Ugin.
Or
P2: Play my Bolas, blow up something silly.
P1: Play Ugin and...uh...bomb the board?
P2: That's cute. Bolas, destroy Ugin.
You can't even set it up so Ugin kills Bolas unless the opponent IMMEDIATELY fires off Bolas' -2 & THEN you get bolas.
...but then they have one of your creatures to smack Ugin back with.
That's a flavor win.
CML
Contributor
here in america we now say "Black" or "African-American" even
how great is it that AIDS kills all the color permanents?
Laz
Developer
I laughed more that I should have. I am not sure if I should be glad that we have cultivated an environment where jokes like this don't get you yelled at, but bad game design does.
Also, Ugin looks pretty awesome, but I doubt that there is much space in my cube for monstrously expensive planeswalkers. Nicol Bolas has only been granted a reprieve through sentimentality. He has been passed on constantly for so many drafts now.
Ugin is the cubable Bolas, period. Bolas has always been somewhat restrained by his colors & cost. Grixis isn't widely known as the best colors for control, because it just sadly isn't. Also, cruel ultimatum kind of hurts Bolas in a bad way with being arguably better & all that. I want to love Bolas, but I know as exciting as he reads, he's just a bit too narrow in what decks want him & not good enough.
Ugin though? Green ramp. Any control list. Wildfire decks for the people who run those. No color restrictions. And he immediately effects the board. Usually by wiping it. He can then proceed to win you the game with bolts & a sweet ultimate. Not to mention that he rewards anyone playing artifacts or morph dudes. Which I like, because I'm trying to build a morph theme into my cube.
Ugin though? Green ramp. Any control list. Wildfire decks for the people who run those. No color restrictions. And he immediately effects the board. Usually by wiping it. He can then proceed to win you the game with bolts & a sweet ultimate. Not to mention that he rewards anyone playing artifacts or morph dudes. Which I like, because I'm trying to build a morph theme into my cube.
Ugin is hideous.