Sets (MID) Innistrad: Midnight Hunt

shamizy

shamizy

sigh said:
There is NO way I'm passing this up. This has been very high on my wishlist for years now. Yessss.
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Dryad's Revival

{2}{G}
Sorcery
Return target card from your graveyard to your hand.

Flashback {4}{G}
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Sweet card and beautiful art. I saw this art featured with one of the story articles and was hoping it wasn't just a set piece, pleased that it's on a highly playable card. A recurrable Regrowth effect in the self-milling BG/Sultai builds is going to be a great addition. This set is the best.
 
sigh

sigh

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Cute. Mana smoothing that turns into a real beefcake later as needed (with bonus super mana smoothing)
 
Velrun

Velrun

Usually these mana smoothers at 2 mana come with an ETB draw a card to replace themselves. This one doesn't but instead comes with a level up ability. Quite elegant but also very low power.
 
Zoss

Zoss

Think of it this way: it draws you a 5-mana 5/6! I love the consistency and consider that an upgrade.
 
japahn

japahn

sigh said:
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Cute. Mana smoothing that turns into a real beefcake later as needed (with bonus super mana smoothing)
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Ugh, so many DFCs that I want to run, but I can only add a small number because of complexity and mechanical issues in paper draft. I can add them to occasionals, I guess.

I'm suspicious if Dryad's Revival will be playable at all, 3/5 mana for no tempo contribution is such a tempo hit that it's terrible against aggro. I suppose it's a good thing to discard for later value, but it seems quite narrow to me at these mana costs at most power levels (including my cube's). I wish it was an instant.
 
sigh

sigh

I think the general notion that all cards need a "tempo contribution" or "immediate impact" is a little overapplied. After all, almost 100% of card draw spells offer no "tempo", no matter if they are instant or sorcery (or enchantment or artifact). Compare the front half of Dryad's Revival to compulsive research or an evoked mulldrifter for example.

You are likely recurring something either critical to the gameplan of the deck, and therefore critical to the overall tempo of the entire game, or recurring something that offers a large tempo advantage in that situation. A couple examples would be birthing pod or seismic assault and lightning bolt or wrath of god.

There are certainly some formats where spending that much mana is too slow, but I think that's mostly at the higher power levels. Most cubes I've seen are pretty far away from the breakneck pace of constructed environments, maybe with the exception of a couple turbo-aggro decks formats can field. In that case simply side out for something more suited to the matchup, as usual.
 
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japahn

japahn

So I generally agree that it's fine to spend 3 mana without impacting the board in slow environments, but I kind of disagree in this particular case, because Dryad's Revival needs 3 mana just not to be card disadvantage. Divination at least draws you two cards and requires nothing in graveyard worth returning. It looks way, way worse than Compulsive Research to me, which might not do anything for tempo immediately, but it sets you up for a much better next turn to make up for it, with no investment or specific situation required.

In slow matchups, that'll be fine, but the card's going to be a liability in fast matchups, unless you can reliably loot it away.
 
sigh

sigh

Compulsive draws three of the average power level of your cards, Revival recurs the best possible card from the graveyard for that situation, so it's not like Compulsive is drawing three times the card value. Compulsive can just as easily draw three lands (close to zero value in some situations) as it can set one up for a banger turn [cast + 1]. You aren't generally casting Revival on curve, which is where the comparison to Research, which is commonly cast on curve, can break down some. You are probably in dire straights if you are casting any regrowth on curve, and you probably aren't playing in most of our environments if that's happening, because you shouldn't be in dire straights by turn 3 in general. That implies a turn 4 format, which is modern speed. Obviously it can't recur from an empty GY, but that's true of every graveyard recursion ever.

And the three mana part isn't really what sells revival anyways. It's the flexibility to recur a card from the grave by using another card that's also in the grave, giving the potential to basically come back from nothing. The same basic reason that Rites can sell itself, even though a 5 mana front side is pretty mediocre.
 
TrainmasterGT

TrainmasterGT

sacredfire.jpg

Wow they are just printing a ton of spells that make me say: "I can't beleive they printed something this good into a Standard set." I like that they're finally powering up spells again, this is a great Cube card, especially for people on higher gold densities.
 
sigh

sigh

TrainmasterGT said:
sacredfire.jpg

Wow they are just printing a ton of spells that make me say: "I can't beleive they printed something this good into a Standard set." I like that they're finally powering up spells again, this is a great Cube card, especially for people on higher gold densities.
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Type: Instant

This is a sweet card. I don't really have a slot that needs it right now, but I am also loving WotC just pulling out a list of cool spell effects and throwing them into the flashback-inator
 
B

blacksmithy

sigh said:
Compulsive draws three of the average power level of your cards, Revival recurs the best possible card from the graveyard for that situation, so it's not like Compulsive is drawing three times the card value. Compulsive can just as easily draw three lands (close to zero value in some situations) as it can set one up for a banger turn [cast + 1]. You aren't generally casting Revival on curve, which is where the comparison to Research, which is commonly cast on curve, can break down some. You are probably in dire straights if you are casting any regrowth on curve, and you probably aren't playing in most of our environments if that's happening, because you shouldn't be in dire straights by turn 3 in general. That implies a turn 4 format, which is modern speed. Obviously it can't recur from an empty GY, but that's true of every graveyard recursion ever.

And the three mana part isn't really what sells revival anyways. It's the flexibility to recur a card from the grave by using another card that's also in the grave, giving the potential to basically come back from nothing. The same basic reason that Rites can sell itself, even though a 5 mana front side is pretty mediocre.
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for me what is telling of flashback-regrowth is that Sevinne’s Reclamation has the same upfront and flashback costs as this new spell, but 1) puts the thing it recurs straight on the field and 2) copies itself on flashback, which this does neither. it’s a big tempo hit compared to another spell that costs exactly the same amounts of mana, but in white and with a small restriction on targets.
EDIT: don’t get me wrong, i like this and i see where it can be very useful to a focused graveyard archetype, just cautioning folks that it is likely to be very narrow to that specific archetype from a drafter’s point of view due to its cost and lack of effect on the board.
 
sigh

sigh

blacksmithy said:
for me what is telling of flashback-regrowth is that Sevinne’s Reclamation has the same upfront and flashback costs as this new spell, but 1) puts the thing it recurs straight on the field and 2) copies itself on flashback, which this does neither. it’s a big tempo hit compared to another spell that costs exactly the same amounts of mana, but in white and with a small restriction on targets.
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A (quite large) restriction on targets.

Missing literally every non-permanent, and a decent chunk of on-type targets in most cubes. For really fast cubes with an average mana curve below 3, the restriction gets a bit smaller, but I think we all have already agreed that's not the type of format for Revival, and indeed the type of format that Revival will thrive in will have heftier restrictions on Reclamation via a higher average curve.

For my cube reclamation hits 239:400 targets, and recurring lands is typically a suboptimal play for both cards, which leaves 185:400, while Revival is always a solid 400:400/346:400

And reclamation is a good card! Not every card has to be equally good to have merit in a format.
 
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shamizy

shamizy

japahn said:
So I generally agree that it's fine to spend 3 mana without impacting the board in slow environments, but I kind of disagree in this particular case, because Dryad's Revival needs 3 mana just not to be card disadvantage. Divination at least draws you two cards and requires nothing in graveyard worth returning. It looks way, way worse than Compulsive Research to me, which might not do anything for tempo immediately, but it sets you up for a much better next turn to make up for it, with no investment or specific situation required.

In slow matchups, that'll be fine, but the card's going to be a liability in fast matchups, unless you can reliably loot it away.
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I agree with this in most scenarios, but I don't think it's as applicable for this card. It's never really going to be on curve where you cast this, usually something you fire off in the later game once you've stabilized or when both players are grinding it out. I don't think I'd ever want to fire this off on curve to grab a fetch ala Eternal Witness, but I'd definitely be playing it in my grindier BG and Sultai decks trying to branch into the late game. Ultimately it comes down to how important what you're recurring is to your overall gameplan. There are a lot of times where I wished I had a Regrowth rather than a means of drawing cards after I had a payoff/threat answered.

Like based off cube drafts I had the last week, I definitely wouldn't be able to find a window for this against a very aggressive deck or one that curves out efficiently T1-T4 in a midrange shell, but I could absolutely have this put in work against the grindy matchups to break through parity. There was a super grindy match that I actually lost to a recurred Thassa's Oracle in a UB deck after decking themselves, I'm sure that drafter would have loved to have something like this that they could flashback in the late game for added redundancy and potential recursion.

Aside from E-Wit, Regrowth effects are usually a luxury to have due to the tempo hit as you mentioned. However, I think this having the Flashback mode where you can pitch it away for future use gives it enough flexibility to be worth it overall. It puts it right on par with the classic Regrowth for me even it costs 1 more on the front side. I don't think it's some slam dunk forever staple in most cubes, but if grindy decks creep up and don't mind splashing a green pip for this, I like having it as an available option. Just seems like a nice roleplayer for slower Gx decks in general.
 
shamizy

shamizy

Excellent, I'm all for more incidental graveyard hate on playable bodies. Turning into an evasive beater after going wide makes this super appealing to me for my B/W Human Aggro. Turning on pseudo protection that can mostly be used aggressively is very appealing to me, I'm glad it can't be used to gum up the board defensively and has a pseudo restriction with Coven. Very good design. Now if only there weren't a plethora of great white two drops.
 
Zoss

Zoss

Velrun said:
So many efficient low-drops
So many mana sinks

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Yeah, I was just about to say, holy shit, this card. The mythics are definitely better, but this card is the one that makes me feel old, lol. A 3/2 for 2 with upside? And a lot of upside?

The problem is, as offensive as I find that to my personal 'fair magic' sensibilities, I kind of like it a lot. As shamizy says, grave hate on an aggro body is always nice.

In short,
:btg:
 
G

Galmara

Velrun said:
So many efficient low-drops
So many mana sinks
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They sure seem to put the pedal to the metal on two-drops for this set!


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I have a somewhat unhealthy relationship with LftL, and got pretty excited when I saw this, but it's probably a trap...
 
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