Yeah. that part alone makes this mechanic extremely frustrating for me. It puts it out of sync with how other transform mechanics work, and makes cards that reference transformation only work on some cards that transform, but not all, and other cards that do the day/night thing only work with daybound/nightbound. They basically made the werewolf transform mechanic more parasitic than it already was.
Sets (MID) Innistrad: Midnight Hunt
- Thread starter shamizy
- Start date
what’s amazing is how many good versatile cube/edh/etc cards are in this set IN SPITE OF most of us choosing (rightfully IMO) to completely ignore at least day/night DFCs and even all DFCs in the set
I fundamentally agree with this, even if the way that it's done now is better once you know how it works (or, if you're online, which was definitely the core motivation here). This is a more-and-more common issue we're having with design, and I'm legitimately going to have to make a printout of all the dumb new mechanics in the last 2.5 years of Magic ahead of my next draft so that people have a clear resource.
But when it comes to Daybound/Nightbound vs. "Innistrad 1.0", it's certainly worse to mesh the two types, to the point I almost want to remove my OG werewolves?
Currently, the only Classic WerewolvesTM I run in cube are:
And as much as I dearly love him, I don't think Huntmaster is long for this world anyways, whether by my obtaining of a Klothys or by cracking an Arlinn at the prerelease.
This sucks, because now it's going to be 50/50 at best of old Werewolves to new, the worst possible ratio, with my current likely includes from Midnight Hunt including:
Unfortunately, if just on the strength of Suspicious Stowaway, if I had to chose between the two cohorts, I'd probably pick the new lot. They provide more value to my cube overall and do more interesting things, I'm really only losing one cube rockstar in the form of Duskwatch Recruiter
Hopefully, we'll get a new Village Messenger / Reckless Waif equivalent/improvement spoiled today in the remaining commons to help convince me to make my cube more coherent, and I can bid farewell to long-time darlings with conviction. I would be at least a little disappointed if the "werewolf set" didn't feature a single cube-worthy inclusion in one of the two main werewolf colors! Looking at the most-played werewolves on Cube Cobra...there aren't many besides the ones I'm playing (and Kessig Prowler who doesn't really count here), so I guess I won't be missing out on some classics I've overlooked if I do make this swap.
But tl;dr modern design priorities suck and even if this new mechanic "plays better" in an Arena sense, I'm not a fan and cards that mechanically I'd be reasonably happy to consider like Gavony Dawnguard are just too hard to grok without dedicated play experience. And now if I want to be a considerate cube curator I've really got to remove a handful of cherished cards. Bleh.
I guess you could grab a sharpie and errata the old faithfuls to use Daybound/Nightbound? And then conspicuously don't mention the whole "you can't transform them through other means lol" thing.
...
Oh god. This is why Tovolar has to have that damn "transform any number of human werewolves" text. It all makes sense now.
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Oh god. This is why Tovolar has to have that damn "transform any number of human werewolves" text. It all makes sense now.
Full gallery is out! Interesting cards included here, though we may have seen Morbid Opportunist before.
Evolving Wilds is here just for the nice new art.
The most interesting to me here is Lunarch Veteran, a soul sister with upside in the graveyard, and the cheapest Disturb cost we've seen to date! Not necessary all that helpful for my cube at present, but one I'll keep an eye on for sure. I don't think the full spoiler gave me any more obvious inclusions, but this is a super interesting set all the same, even with these last few commons and uncommons (my above issues aside).
Evolving Wilds is here just for the nice new art.
The most interesting to me here is Lunarch Veteran, a soul sister with upside in the graveyard, and the cheapest Disturb cost we've seen to date! Not necessary all that helpful for my cube at present, but one I'll keep an eye on for sure. I don't think the full spoiler gave me any more obvious inclusions, but this is a super interesting set all the same, even with these last few commons and uncommons (my above issues aside).
oh goody, ANOTHER soul sister i have to shock on sight in historic
Surveil 3 with flashback is a pretty cute "cantrip" variation. Might team one of these with one Consider in my U one drop slots.
Aggressive 2CMC thrashing brontodon in white? With flash? not shabby at all.
Ooh, guess I was rushing through the White section too fast, because I missed these two on first pass:
Search Party Captain is reasonably playable but I can't imagine many folks including it over Priest of Ancient Lore. Still a neat card and a neat effect, I just don't want to work for my beefier Elvish Visionary, even in white.
HOWEVER! Cathar Commando is eminently playable, and I'm going to begin looking for a cut ASAP. Not only have I been praying for a disenchant effect stapled to a low-CMC dude in white for ages, but this one has flash and 3 power! Gorgeous art as well, even if I wish it was a Warrior or something slightly more relevant. What a lovely surprise!
Search Party Captain is reasonably playable but I can't imagine many folks including it over Priest of Ancient Lore. Still a neat card and a neat effect, I just don't want to work for my beefier Elvish Visionary, even in white.
HOWEVER! Cathar Commando is eminently playable, and I'm going to begin looking for a cut ASAP. Not only have I been praying for a disenchant effect stapled to a low-CMC dude in white for ages, but this one has flash and 3 power! Gorgeous art as well, even if I wish it was a Warrior or something slightly more relevant. What a lovely surprise!
The whole selling point of the mechanic is that the face of the card is always in sync with the day/night phase, instead of original Innistrad where werewolves all followed their own timezones. If you could just Moonmist them around then you'd end up with the same thing again.
It's laughable that it's impossible to read the rules of a mechanic on the card. You actually need the token to know that the cards enter on the Day/Night side depending on what state the game already is.
And even when you have the token to read that specific rule on, you still haven't got all the rules appearently because of the "Can't be transformed by anything but the natural Day/Night mechanic"
And even when you have the token to read that specific rule on, you still haven't got all the rules appearently because of the "Can't be transformed by anything but the natural Day/Night mechanic"
Welcome to the age of Arena. I'm just not a fan of these mechanics and cards that are getting tedious to keep track of in paper. Works on a platform that does it for you, but man is a chore in paper to do things like track ability counters, remember the super wordy front and back sides to cards, or keep track of dungeons and this new day/night mechanic. Thankfully most of these just kind of suck and will only be experienced in Limited, but its still such a slog with unnecessary complexity. I can't imagine what it's like as a new player coming into the game today.It's laughable that it's impossible to read the rules of a mechanic on the card. You actually need the token to know that the cards enter on the Day/Night side depending on what state the game already is.
And even when you have the token to read that specific rule on, you still haven't got all the rules appearently because of the "Can't be transformed by anything but the natural Day/Night mechanic"
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Why yes, yes I do!Also... hey, does anyone here have a Heroic/Prowess/Magecraft theme that includes White?
Thanks. I hate it. I still don't understand why Moonmist doesn't work on daybound werewolves. Like, if you're going to fuck up the rules, at least explain how it works (instead of stating the not at all obvious). Like, here MaRo explains that Moonmist doesn't work on MDFC's, because it can only transform cards that naturally can transform. Which daybound/nightbound creatures literally can! In other words, I'm completely onboard with @LadyMapi's frustration!
This is super solid, the flash really puts it over the top with utility. You can use it aggressively in aggro as a 3/1 beater, represents on board interactions for any artifacts/enchantments that might be deployed, and the flash lets it play double duty as a threat you don't need to deploy at sorcery speed or as an Ambush Viper defensively. I think most of the time it'll just be a typical aggro 2 drop, but the added utility and possibilities make it a fine filler card in more archetypes. I'm all for more Qasali Pridemage variants that don't take up valuable gold slots.
Since the full spoiler is up, I'm going to make the testing and includes thread later today, but I'm having a medical procedure done first and won't be able to make the thread until later. It should only be a few hours.
I was expecting this dude to only give Double strike to himself, how good would this be as a finisher for my Zacama, Primal Calamity and other Timmy nonsense decks?
Man, I wish this hit lands like grapple with the past, but still a sleeper-hit I'll likely try out. I'm afraid of it whiffing but my Cube is so creature heavy that I probably won't have to worry about it.
The art is weird but this card does equal order very specific kill spell or pushes for final damage. Real good.
Abrade stop trying to get back into my cub- Oh, you're not Abrade, you're much more aggro and evil (with surprisingly wholesome flavor text). Idk if I want a shatter for my cube, but the floor is really nice and someone is going to try this.
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Chris Taylor
Contributor
This is another one I worry about the actual stats on. I'm sticking with (double) grapple.
Man, I wish this hit lands like grapple with the past, but still a sleeper-hit I'll likely try out. I'm afraid of it whiffing but my Cube is so creature heavy that I probably won't have to worry about it.
Okay, after some rudimentary hypergeo checking:
19 creatures in a 40 card deck (Think like, platonic ideal for white weenie: 19 creatures, 2 removal spells 2 other): 86% for at least 1 hit
14 creatures in a 40 card deck (This is probably closer to self mill midrange average) 76% for at least 1 hit
That doesn't sound great?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Do you want to be even more annoyed? I've got a quiz for you! Tell me, which of these three Midnight Hunt creatures can be transformed by Moonmist?
If you guessed "everything but the human werewolf," congratulations, you were right! What an epic flavor win, amirite?!
Good luck with the procedure!
Yeah I completely forgot to hypergeo check it that'd be a lot quicker.
Now, please don't ask me how I got this number, (I still need to post my Cube eventually but I haven't gotten to play it as much as I want).
but anyway, I got 97~% for it getting 1 or more, (with some fringe cases hovering around 94.5%) and 74~% for it getting more than 1 (this one drops quickly though for the fringe).
So for me, about 3% to 5.5% of it completely whiffing. So about the statistics of rolling a Nat 1 on a D20. Good enough.
I wonder if it's even too good for my cube lol, I mean Explore has been putting in work, so how good is essentially a think twice with mandatory surveil 3 in green? Eh, I'm really not going to know until I try it. I'm thinking it'll be fine because of Sorcery speed.
So I guess the card is perfect for me to try and pretty much no one else, you should stick with grapple cuz it can grab from the graveyard too
Nightling Bolt!
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Wait are you sure?Yeah I completely forgot to hypergeo check it that'd be a lot quicker.
Now, please don't ask me how I got this number, (I still need to post my Cube eventually but I haven't gotten to play it as much as I want).
but anyway, I got 97~% for it getting 1 or more, (with some fringe cases hovering around 94.5%) and 74~% for it getting more than 1 (this one drops quickly though for the fringe).
So for me, about 3% to 5.5% of it completely whiffing. So about the statistics of rolling a Nat 1 on a D20. Good enough.
I wonder if it's even too good for my cube lol, I mean Explore has been putting in work, so how good is essentially a think twice with mandatory surveil 3 in green? Eh, I'm really not going to know until I try it. I'm thinking it'll be fine because of Sorcery speed.
So I guess the card is perfect for me to try and pretty much no one else, you should stick with grapple cuz it can grab from the graveyard too
I personally think 19 creatures in a 40 land deck is unrealistically optimistic, especially in the kind of deck that wants self mill think twice.
How many glasspool mimics and Shoreline scouts are in your cube that you can get more hits than that? Are you just running 14 land decks by default?
If I'm reading this right (and please tell me if I'm not), you need 27 creatures in your 40 card deck for a 97% chance to hit at least 1?
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