General Print this Wizards! (So I can put it in my cube)

[Chris Taylor]

yeahhhhh though innocent blood is played from time to time in Legacy.

geth's verdict is pretty sweet so diabolic edict isn't TOO far from being reprintable, though i hate double-color costs (unless it involves da merchant)

edit: devotion is pretty cool, isn't it? eventide lives on

Yeah, but I'm almost entirely sure that's because it costs 1 and not for like...synergy reasons.
Devotion is fucked up in power level difference between constructed and limited.

 

[Changling Bob]

I dunno, it seems like WotC thinks even diabolic edict is too powerful now, what with devour flesh.

I mean, devour flesh is the way it is so you can remove a problem creature but they get some life, or you can keep yourself alive but lose a creature. You're not going to target yourself with diabolic edict, except under weird circumstances. Same sort of deal as vapor snag/unsummon; vapor snag is better when bouncing their stuff at the cost of being worse when bouncing yours.

 

[Dom Harvey]

I'm pushing Devotion as a major theme in the Cube I'm working on atm, and I really like it so far.

 

[Chris Taylor]

I mean, devour flesh is the way it is so you can remove a problem creature but they get some life, or you can keep yourself alive but lose a creature. You're not going to target yourself with diabolic edict, except under weird circumstances. Same sort of deal as vapor snag/unsummon; vapor snag is better when bouncing their stuff at the cost of being worse when bouncing yours.

Yeah and in some cases shock is better than lightning bolt

I'm pushing Devotion as a major theme in the Cube I'm working on atm, and I really like it so far.

The thing I worry about devotion is in traditional limited, you aren't going to have the curves of Rakdos Cackler --> Ash Zealot -->Boros Reckoner --> Fanatic of Mogis that make it insane in constructed, even if your cube contains those cards.

Especially given the push we've seen in recent (?) years for more C1 guys instead of CC guys. It makes me wonder if things like Thassa are playable if:

• you miss spots in your curve
• your opponent has removal
• you're playing a 2 color deck
• all your cards are splashable creatures

etc...
All of these things are common in most cubes, and assuming these cards are fine when played under these non-juiced circumstances, I'm excited.
So bring up a simple example, Fanatic of Mogis does more damage than Hellrider if your devotion to red is three higher than the number of creatures you control when his trigger resolves. (Though he does pass the terminate test better)

Fanatic is better with blink effects, but I don't think he's the kind of creature I'd like in ye olde random erratic portal deck, since those tend to be grindy value decks rather than the sort of red aggro Fanatic seems to go well with.

 

[Lucre]

I'm not sure we need to read a universal statement into devour flesh. I'm not sure it's really a direction thing so much as a convenience thing. I think it takes more thought for them to make staples and good cards these days than playable but below the curve (or re-flavored) substitutes because of politics and hassle.

Devour Flesh is not a card I think people ought to be willing to rally around. Maybe it's just me.

More bad ideas:

Take a Hike
Instant (C)
Search your library for two basic land cards, reveal them and put one in your hand and the other on top of your library.

 

[Changling Bob]

I'm just saying I don't think that WotC believes that they can't print diabloic edict because they printed devour flesh any more than they won't print unsummon because of snag; not that devour is necessarily a good/better card than edict, just different.

 

[Lucre]

I'm on board Bob.

 

[Jason Waddell]

Yeah, I mean, Wizards pushes different effects a bit haphazardly. But it's still a fun exercise to try and triangulate what they're willing to print in the modern Standard environments.

 

[Lucre]

It's not really that fun after spending any time on threads like these on most forums or in the creative areas of magic boards. I mean, when Distress was printed, people couldn't stop telling you we'd never see 1cc targeted discard the like of Duress again! Wizard's doesn't like stone rain... Here's a quote from Mark Rosewater that explains why your card can never be printed.

There isn't any depth to the discussion, everyone tends to be Chris pointing out that devour flesh exists and everything needs to be worse than diabolic edict. Like very shallow test-marking style criticism. Magic players always wana have their own line and have something to say so I guess it's natural. You only really get feedback or acknowledgement (other than being shut down) if you play along so you end up thinking that way yourself. Not the most important thing in the world, but hey, I like designing magic cards and I'm sad the mediums kinda stink.

More bad ideas:

Delinquent Vandals
Creature - Human Rogue (C)
, Sacrifice Delinquent Vandals: Destroy target land.
1/1

 

[Jason Waddell]

It's not really that fun after spending any time on threads like these on most forums or in the creative areas of magic boards. I mean, when Distress was printed, people couldn't stop telling you we'd never see 1cc targeted discard the like of Duress again! Wizard's doesn't like stone rain... Here's a quote from Mark Rosewater that explains why your card can never be printed.

There isn't any depth to the discussion, everyone tends to be Chris pointing out that devour flesh exists and everything needs to be worse than diabolic edict. Like very shallow test-marking style criticism. Magic players always wana have their own line and have something to say so I guess it's natural. You only really get feedback or acknowledgement (other than being shut down) if you play along so you end up thinking that way yourself. Not the most important thing in the world, but hey, I like designing magic cards and I'm sad the mediums kinda stink.

Isn't this more a question of people talking to each other versus talking past each other?

 

[Lucre]

I guess forums aren't really conducive to the talking to bit. I guess we manage it here because it's more comfortable to address each other? It's actually weird, RIPtide lab (scary Halloween flavor) is probably the most rapport I've developed with any forum I've been a part of.

More Amazing ideas:

Scavengers Boon
Instant (U)
Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature and gain 1 life.
Whenever a creature is put into a graveyard from play you may pay , if you do, return Scavengers Boon from your graveyard to your hand.

Dip the Blades
Instant (U)
Target creature gets +1/+1 and wither until end of turn.
Flashback

 

[Kyultu]

If I ever try to put together a custom set design I'll probably base it on Muraganda, a prehistoric style plane that Imperiosaur and The Mimeoplasm are from. One keyword I came up with and liked was Adapt. It's a basic one-time If/Then choice on creatures that represents them evolving and changing in a primordial world. Some examples:

Wolf Spider
GG
Creature - Spider
2/2
Adapt - Whenever a creature with flying deals combat damage to you, choose one - ~ gains Deathtouch and Reach or +1/+1 and Intimidate. A creature can adapt only once.

Vengeful Flower
1WW
Creature - Plant
0/4
Defender
Adapt - Whenever a creature you control dies, you may choose one - Exile another target creature until ~ leaves play or ~ becomes a 4/4 and loses Defender. A creature can adapt only once.

Mocking Ooze
UB
1/1
Creature - Ooze
Adapt - Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, you may choose one ~ Put X +1/+1 counters on ~ where X is that creature's Power or ~ gains all activated abilities of that creature.

It's more of a general limited (and top-down) idea than a Cube-centric one, but I figured I'd share.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Interesting cards. I worry about the memory issues, I wonder if these could work as "until end of turn" triggers to reduce that.
It sure limits the different things that can cause adaptation, but it might be worth it in the long run to streamline that sort of thing. Maybe they always trigger on a bigger creature entering play? Kinda like evolve, but only once, and with more complicated +1/+1 counters?

 

[Kyultu]

Maybe to simplify it...

Adapt Spider
Adapt - Whenever a creature with flying deals damage to you put a +1/+1 on this.
This has reach If it has a +1/+1 counter on it.

That eliminates the memory issues and plays nice with other +1/+1 counter mechanics.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

So, in order to deal with the obsolescence of the old 2/1s, I made up my mind to update them.

Savannah Lions gets banding. I mean, duh, I love banding.

Jackal Pup gains flanking.

But, what to do with the worst of the worst, Jungle Lion?

Option 1: Leave it be. Its not actually obsolete like the other two. Its just "extremely niche".
Option 2: Cut it. Its a terrible card that doesn't actually help do anything.
Option 3: Give it an ability. Trample intersects well with all the pump cards you run and fits green, even if it makes no sense on a lion. Or change "cannot intercept" to flash, which fits perfectly on a lion looking to ambush, even if it is pretty useless overall.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Give it bestow !

 

[Chris Taylor]

Also:

 

[anotak]

i designed the same card but in red (4RR and all)

imo that card should be red or red/blue or rug but not monogreen

 

[Chris Taylor]

I dunnno, it seems closer to Enlisted Wurm than anything else, and I think the only reason that card was white is because all cascade cards needed to be multicolor.

Red captures the randomness of it, blue captures the libraryness of it, and green captures the casting

 

[Chris Taylor]

Now that I think about it, Bestow was a pretty liberal estimate

 

[CML]

I'm just saying I don't think that WotC believes that they can't print diabloic edict because they printed devour flesh any more than they won't print unsummon because of snag; not that devour is necessarily a good/better card than edict, just different.

yes yes "strictly worse" doesn't exist cuz of the time i had my opponent dead to a topdecked wrath so named wrath with meddling mage and got day'ed and so on. but devour flesh is worse than edict, and vapor snag is better than unsummon!

chris, these designs continue to be an inspiration. i love seeing what you guys come up with. gives me hope for great magic sets in the future, as whatever other criticisms one might level at WotC, their designers are geniuses at what they do.

 

[Lucre]

Yeah the bestow idea is right outta the park Chris, my hat is off to you and anotak

 

[Chris Taylor]

I've got another one that's vaporkin with bestow U4
might be able to make it 4 mana, but every time I think I have bestow figured out it gets better. Maybe UU2?

Edit:

 

[Lucre]

Guys can you tell me if this is too good and how too good it is.

Judge's Mask WB
Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 deathtouch and vigilance.
Equip 1

Also one of my main ideas for improving greens 3 slot, making its plan more diverse and allowing its dorks to get more aggressive is the concept of something like a green sword. Maybe boon satyr is looking a little like that but I'm thinking about a green transferable buff that makes the value guys aggressive. A green powerful equipment card. Anyone interested?

 

[Changling Bob]

but devour flesh is worse than edict, and vapor snag is better than unsummon!

Agreed. We are, perhaps, the only community that would actively try and build environments were neither of these are the case though.