FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Thinking more about it, I like Nahiri in some decks in my cube, but Daretti sort of fills the exact same niche, so idk if she does anything for me.
Sets Shadows over Innistrad Spoilers Thread
- Thread starter whydirt
- Start date
With how obscenely popular Tamiyo is, and the references to her already, I would be really shocked if they missed the opportunity to print her, because it's sure to make some people very upset. I can't imagine they'd pass her up, since if I recall correctly, she has been consistently the most popular walker pre-Kiora, and was second-most popular since Kiora. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've read that several times from Rosewater back when I followed him more closely. Then again, WOTC is pretty bad at managing their brand and consumer expectations, so... I guess we'll see, maybe they think we'll give em a pass if they make her central to the story, but absent of it. A new Sorin still seems really bizarre since we got one a hot minute ago, but I guess Kiora had a similar wow-already? printing experience..
Wolfmother counts as two planeswalkers perhaps?
Nahiri's ulitmate does seem to have some color issues, but the other two abilities are solidly in RW. She might have more loyalty than Ajani V, but he can protect himself right off the bat with a keep-tapped without going to 2 loyalty. His minus is most likely a better removal spell than Nahiri's (Helix vs. Excoriate). I like that she doesn't lock anyone out from doing anything.
- Ajani no-un-tapping splash land you need = Negative Fun as spells rot in hand
- Ajani helixing = solid removal, but lowers his loyalty, potentially just dies from crackback just like Nahiri but can also kill the weenie you just played and then laughs all the way to:
- Ajani Blowing up all your lands = NO FUN AT ALL
- Nahiri rummaging one = Cool decision making on the user's part, but can be kinda weak. Fuels shenanigans w/ GY
- Nahiri Excoriating = Probably very close to 0 loyalty after use, and reliant on attacks happening. Which conveniently put her loyalty lower if some get in. meh.
- Nahiri throwing monster at you = Maybe just death happens, but maybe not considering the top end of creatures in our cubes, and maybe you get to see cool stuff like double surprise Sun Titan activation.
Yeah, Descend upon the Sinful is comparable to Phyrexian Rebirth, and that was pretty bonkers over here, when it made a 4/4 on average. Perhaps I'm overrating the delirium mechanic, but I don't think it would be that difficult for, say, a UW control deck with fetchlands to have four card types in their graveyard by the mid-to-late game, even though none of the creatures killed by this spell contribute to the tally. Flying on the token is a big upside, but I suppose that not giving you a creature at all on occasion is a bigger downside.
Drop Nahiri in G1 and make your opponent think twice about tapping that Gilded lotus! In high-powered cubes, her ability to exile mana rocks does more than I think people are giving it credit for.
When planeswalker removal (in my environ at least) revolves around reducing loyalty to 0 through damage, a higher loyalty is a bigger pain than a 'walker that can defend itself.
Your perspective is interesting, but I give it another angle.
Ajani tapping splash-land: "don't be so fucking greedy sweetie
"; For me, making splashes risky is what keeps them in check, and in my environ, I want splashes to be inherently risky so there's a real trade-off to consider between splashing vs making a lean 2c deck vs building a legitimate 3c manabase through proper picks in-draft. In my format, 3c decks are pretty reliable to construct. I personally want splashes to be punishable.Ajani tapping a creature: non-issue and very fair.
Ajani Helixing: very nice potential removal in my list, and gives some access to life gain, which can help a range of decks. Puts Ajani within striking distance for just about any aggressive deck while still likely weathering a more midrange deck, board state depending. I like that it's a control effect that's better vs smaller bodies, rather than just generically good.
Ajani Ulting: Outrageously rare event over here. If Ajani ulting is a routine problem, re-evaluate your cube's power level; something's wrong. Otherwise, that's quite a long time to let a walker sit and gain loyalty; I think it's a win well-deserved if the RW player has you stalled out for that long.
Nahiri Card Selection: Nice, sure, fine, but +2 loyalty from it is a bit strong for me, especially since W wants more card selection pretty badly anyway
Nahiri Minus: Potentially much stronger than Ajani's, especially in my environ. Is a strong way to discourage attacking unless you can alpha strike her, which can be hard. Much, much harder to play around this; with Ajani, you swing in with everything to try and get in hits, with Nahiri, if you swing in with everything and don't connect, she eats your biggest battle dumpling and it's more likely GG. She can also fuel this much easier since she gains loyalty in a hurry with her +2
Nahiri Ult: Cool but I really don't think white needed this effect, seems like something that coulda been saved for another 'walker imho
In Conclusion~
I think More Interesting Decisions happen with Ajani. The Ajani V player has to use the +1 appropriately (locking down a land isn't always correct), and the -2 ability doesn't take out everything. The ult will win you the game almost always, but it shouldn't really be happening very often at all unless your environment has issues.
Nahiri offers some Interesting Decisions in her +2 ability, but the way she so rapidly climbs in loyalty is troubling. Her -2 ability is much more effective at destroying key Villain tools, leading to more "sitting around" than Ajani's ultimate does (assuming it even goes off; again, if it's a routine issue, it's the fault of the cube designer, not the card in this case), while her +2 ability fuels it twice as quickly as Ajani can fuel his more situational, but more flexible removal tool. Her Ult is really cool, and I give points for that, but with such a sturdy walker, I can't help but feel that something slightly better could have taken this slot.
This seems really unlikely, and if that was what Rosewater meant, he's gonna piss a lot of people off with that 'joke'.
An interesting take on Ajani and Nahiri. I could just make a list back, but there's no point really. One example "Nahiri -2 is potentially stronger, but also potentially weaker blah blah blahb" or "if you only have one creature Ajani's plus isn't very fair blahblabhla". But, You've made your decision and I've made mine, and that's A+.When planeswalker removal (in my environ at least) revolves around reducing loyalty to 0 through damage, a higher loyalty is a bigger pain than a 'walker that can defend itself.
Your perspective is interesting, but I give it another angle.
Ajani tapping splash-land: "don't be so fucking greedy sweetie
Ajani tapping a creature: non-issue and very fair.
Ajani Helixing: very nice potential removal in my list, and gives some access to life gain, which can help a range of decks. Puts Ajani within striking distance for just about any aggressive deck while still likely weathering a more midrange deck, board state depending. I like that it's a control effect that's better vs smaller bodies, rather than just generically good.
Ajani Ulting: Outrageously rare event over here. If Ajani ulting is a routine problem, re-evaluate your cube's power level; something's wrong. Otherwise, that's quite a long time to let a walker sit and gain loyalty; I think it's a win well-deserved if the RW player has you stalled out for that long.
Nahiri Card Selection: Nice, sure, fine, but +2 loyalty from it is a bit strong for me, especially since W wants more card selection pretty badly anyway
Nahiri Minus: Potentially much stronger than Ajani's, especially in my environ. Is a strong way to discourage attacking unless you can alpha strike her, which can be hard. Much, much harder to play around this; with Ajani, you swing in with everything to try and get in hits, with Nahiri, if you swing in with everything and don't connect, she eats your biggest battle dumpling and it's more likely GG. She can also fuel this much easier since she gains loyalty in a hurry with her +2
Nahiri Ult: Cool but I really don't think white needed this effect, seems like something that coulda been saved for another 'walker imho
In Conclusion~
I think More Interesting Decisions happen with Ajani. The Ajani V player has to use the +1 appropriately (locking down a land isn't always correct), and the -2 ability doesn't take out everything. The ult will win you the game almost always, but it shouldn't really be happening very often at all unless your environment has issues.
Nahiri offers some Interesting Decisions in her +2 ability, but the way she so rapidly climbs in loyalty is troubling. Her -2 ability is much more effective at destroying key Villain tools, leading to more "sitting around" than Ajani's ultimate does (assuming it even goes off; again, if it's a routine issue, it's the fault of the cube designer, not the card in this case), while her +2 ability fuels it twice as quickly as Ajani can fuel his more situational, but more flexible removal tool. Her Ult is really cool, and I give points for that, but with such a sturdy walker, I can't help but feel that something slightly better could have taken this slot.
In the end I'll always try to take the +fun (hand selection/Cool monster bash) over the -fun (restricting mana or creatures/one-sided Armageddon). I've got newbies to deal with that might handle the -fun much worse. Also Ajani is too high power for my environment in general. Which is how the ult would happen more regularly for me. Probably also true for a higher number of cubes around here than might be expected.
newhiri is great and going to be an easy swap for Johnny Five here (he's just a little bit too strong and she's the sinister leading lady Narset wasn't, posing enough of a real threat that you can't just let her +2 forever). Also her ult is super exciting and realistic imo
The new board wipe seems pretty strong to me. I feel like the comparison to magister of worth is more accurate than phyrexian rebirth. I tried magister for a while and it definitely turned around more games than I felt was appropriate. Phyrexian rebirth might be larger on average, but at least its easy to chump
Magister is not at all an appropriate comparison because blink/reanimator shenanigans; a creature typing is not to be underestimated, for real
safra you raise some good points about newhiri
Sure, but I think the evasion still makes it a pretty big upgrade to rebirth. Also, my experiences with magister have been with traditional control decks, not blink/reanimator decks. The card is a beating and the new board wipe looks like more of the same without the color requirements.
Yeah, my gut reaction about Descend upon the Sinful is that it's Way Too Good. Even if delirium is only online 50% of the time, wiping the whole board and getting a 4/4 flier while you're at it for six mana is a massive beating, and possibly enough of a board swing to make up for the times where it's 'only' a wrath.
I have it as Magister of Worth > Descend upon the Sinful > Phyrexian Rebirth, although they're all close.
I have it as Magister of Worth > Descend upon the Sinful > Phyrexian Rebirth, although they're all close.
Jeez Magister of Worth would be such a brutal pod target.
Why not both? (Why not Zoidberg!?) I think I'm going to include Newhiri and Angry Furry.
I will say that I don't think things like holding down lands or creatures is less fun. If you can only land one creature or you splashed too hard, that's a problem you have to deal with. Punishers add layers of strategy to the format by making what would otherwise be the dominant strategy (build the strongest deck in a vacuum, curve out perfectly, etc) something you have to actually think about. I love it when every decision you make feels like a very real decisions rather than an arbitrary one. I guess my group also enjoys having to deal with stuff like resource hate and we've gotten pretty skilled at navigating those scenarios. Granted, having a low mana curve helps a ton.
I will say that I don't think things like holding down lands or creatures is less fun. If you can only land one creature or you splashed too hard, that's a problem you have to deal with. Punishers add layers of strategy to the format by making what would otherwise be the dominant strategy (build the strongest deck in a vacuum, curve out perfectly, etc) something you have to actually think about. I love it when every decision you make feels like a very real decisions rather than an arbitrary one. I guess my group also enjoys having to deal with stuff like resource hate and we've gotten pretty skilled at navigating those scenarios. Granted, having a low mana curve helps a ton.
Full disclosure:
When I read it, I didn't realize that the wrath needed to have delirium turned on. It still seems strong, but nowhere near as good as I originally thought.
Please carry on.
When I read it, I didn't realize that the wrath needed to have delirium turned on. It still seems strong, but nowhere near as good as I originally thought.
Please carry on.
all vampire spells you have that aren't in play have Madness, the cost of which is equal to their mana cost
now this is a one-drop
This seems super sweet. I was getting worried that Wotc was going to neglect tribals in this set, considering the thus-far lack of tribal support spoiled.
Quick! everybody buy Vampire Hounds
Great. I have 3 just chilling in my binder. I can pay for prerelease!
What the christ? Is it 8whack causing this?
