Jeskai Tempo deck did pretty well and won it all at SCG NJ. Mantis Rider looked to be really good every time I saw it on camera, picked up a playset online right afterwards for about $12. Good thing I did, it's shot up to around $8 and change per copy everywhere else I've looked online.
General The Constructed thread
- Thread starter Dom Harvey
- Start date
That's really really interesting!
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
14 rares in the maindeck, all lands. How cool is that? 
gotta see these lists jeff!
ok who else wants to give UR spells a try in cube again
lol me
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Way ahead of ya (URW man, Midnight Haunting + Young Pyromancer is boss)
also: Dat curve. When Snapcaster Mage is too much mana, you know you're going deep
Psh, please. You don't even run a single Delver!
Jeskai (ugh) spells might be a thing, though, with Seeker of the Way playing a supporting role. I'm currently on Gather the Townsfolk and Spectral Procession, and I'm not sure there's room for a third token maker at 360, but Midnight Haunting is a nice one in the deck. Hmmm...
Jeskai (ugh) spells might be a thing, though, with Seeker of the Way playing a supporting role. I'm currently on Gather the Townsfolk and Spectral Procession, and I'm not sure there's room for a third token maker at 360, but Midnight Haunting is a nice one in the deck. Hmmm...
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I don't run delver no, but I think a custom prowress 1 drop (A blue one mind) is what I'd want more. Delver has a lot of problems in cube, and transforming him (?) is still a coinflip with a whopping 20 (!!!) spells in your deck (Good fucking luck).
Don't get me wrong, I do think it's probably the best spells matter blue 1 drop around right now, but I'd still love something better (And might make one)
Seeker of the way is the real deal btw. I've been having good times with him and a blueshifted custom one, as well as a bunch of the 1 mana rebound spells like distortion strike (which is amazing!) and emerge unscathed (Which I haven't got a chance to draft with yet). I'm not sure midnight haunting is the specific card you want since it's kinda weak, but instant is nice and threats that trigger prowess are also nice...
Lol after I've been telling everyone to do that for like a literal year hahahha.
Lets just keep calling it American. Eric I really recommend cutting bad 2 drops or 3 drops for token generators. They are often more interesting for control decks anyway. If not things that effect blocking, thalia , or token makers I think things that survive day/ earth quake are your best bets.
More gather the townsfolk have got to be more fun than the WW guy that doesn't let you use spells on your opponents turn. I mean what spells do you have that aren't sorc anyway rite?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
to be fair the prowess creatures make a huge difference, as enablers for straight up instant/sorcery are far and few between (and almost always red: Guttersnipe), whereas prowess lets you have enchantments and walkers in the mix
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
If you have 20 spells in a 40 card deck, you should be consistantly flipping delver, and it will be well worth running.
The thing with those decks is that they are basically burn decks, supported by some kind of evasive threat (or threat that can be made evasive) that synergizes well with casting spells. The traditional problem the delver versions have had in cube (due to the reduced access to cheap cantrips and dig spells) is getting stuck with threat light hands (due to the extremely high spell count), thus not being able to apply any real pressure, while at the same time lacking the control mechanicsms needed to play a long game. I also think there is an issue with people drafting delver once (often run as the only spells matters cards) than horribly miss-building their deck, lossing badly, and cutting the entire archetype by the next draft.
Over here, red has a lot of "spells matter" control elements (flashback, burning vengeance) so playing a long game isn't a big deal. Red also has some of the only sweepers in the format (which happens to not target flyers) and some of the best spot removal. As a result, the deck is very good at playing out whatever role its opening 7 assigns it, and the extreme spells matter lists work.
The advantage of the prowess creatures and friends (kiln fiend), is that the lists are a bit more accessible to draft and design for (though you still can, and probably should, run 1-2 delvers). You can run a more creature heavy "storm" version of the deck, with "free" cards that up the spell count: riftwing cloudskate, rift bolt, gitaxian probe, lava dart, staggershock, ancestral vision, gut shot. When you combine that with a few creatures that get bigger for each spell cast, you can teleportal, blustersquall or distortion strike in a big hit: than burn finishes them off. There are also some good aggro control elements with talrand, sky summoner, and young pyromancer. You could even try going full on storm with temporal fissure.
White I think is a sub color, but can tie in all right with stoneforge mystic getting runechanter's pike or leering emblem. Geist of saint traft also fits in nicely in the deck, and the white flying token makers are very good at carrying some of that equipment, flipping delver, and triggering prowess.
Also, gather the townsfolk has been terrible as a spells matters cards over here, because you can't really exert pressure with it, unlike its flying brethren.
The thing with those decks is that they are basically burn decks, supported by some kind of evasive threat (or threat that can be made evasive) that synergizes well with casting spells. The traditional problem the delver versions have had in cube (due to the reduced access to cheap cantrips and dig spells) is getting stuck with threat light hands (due to the extremely high spell count), thus not being able to apply any real pressure, while at the same time lacking the control mechanicsms needed to play a long game. I also think there is an issue with people drafting delver once (often run as the only spells matters cards) than horribly miss-building their deck, lossing badly, and cutting the entire archetype by the next draft.
Over here, red has a lot of "spells matter" control elements (flashback, burning vengeance) so playing a long game isn't a big deal. Red also has some of the only sweepers in the format (which happens to not target flyers) and some of the best spot removal. As a result, the deck is very good at playing out whatever role its opening 7 assigns it, and the extreme spells matter lists work.
The advantage of the prowess creatures and friends (kiln fiend), is that the lists are a bit more accessible to draft and design for (though you still can, and probably should, run 1-2 delvers). You can run a more creature heavy "storm" version of the deck, with "free" cards that up the spell count: riftwing cloudskate, rift bolt, gitaxian probe, lava dart, staggershock, ancestral vision, gut shot. When you combine that with a few creatures that get bigger for each spell cast, you can teleportal, blustersquall or distortion strike in a big hit: than burn finishes them off. There are also some good aggro control elements with talrand, sky summoner, and young pyromancer. You could even try going full on storm with temporal fissure.
White I think is a sub color, but can tie in all right with stoneforge mystic getting runechanter's pike or leering emblem. Geist of saint traft also fits in nicely in the deck, and the white flying token makers are very good at carrying some of that equipment, flipping delver, and triggering prowess.
Also, gather the townsfolk has been terrible as a spells matters cards over here, because you can't really exert pressure with it, unlike its flying brethren.
Yeah I agree about the burn deck's comment. I've made blue delver tempo decks in cube but I find they come together a lot less often than the burning skies type deck. I think people throw the term tempo around a lot when they see any aggression mixed with cheap spells and weird colour combos and they don't really know what the basis of the deck.
I feel like spells matter and tempo get a long really well, and mesh well with the burn themes, but I don't think many cube masters see beyond that particular deck and so I am kinda excited to see prowess' impact. I mean, I like pyromancer in a tempo deck because when I kill a creature with a fraction of my turn I am also keeping my pressure up. I like burn spells in those decks because I get to capitalize on the amount of time I've been denying my opponent with efficient trades by ending their game prematurely. I like bounce spells because each extra turn they waste re casting their dumb angel or oblivion ring is time I'm not giving them much more of.
Racing with a tempo deck really reminds you that having vigilance is an awful lot like having 2 creatures.
Are people really having trouble getting delver to work? How comitted are you to having a delver deck around? How much impact do you find it has on your blue value and control decks. I see that as the major impasse. I think people being into enchantment based removal and stuff like that also hurt delver in a lot of areas. Cubes are full of creatures with bad spells and permanents that would play the role spells used to these days and it's not really healthy for graveyards, delvers or snapcasters.
I feel like spells matter and tempo get a long really well, and mesh well with the burn themes, but I don't think many cube masters see beyond that particular deck and so I am kinda excited to see prowess' impact. I mean, I like pyromancer in a tempo deck because when I kill a creature with a fraction of my turn I am also keeping my pressure up. I like burn spells in those decks because I get to capitalize on the amount of time I've been denying my opponent with efficient trades by ending their game prematurely. I like bounce spells because each extra turn they waste re casting their dumb angel or oblivion ring is time I'm not giving them much more of.
Racing with a tempo deck really reminds you that having vigilance is an awful lot like having 2 creatures.
Are people really having trouble getting delver to work? How comitted are you to having a delver deck around? How much impact do you find it has on your blue value and control decks. I see that as the major impasse. I think people being into enchantment based removal and stuff like that also hurt delver in a lot of areas. Cubes are full of creatures with bad spells and permanents that would play the role spells used to these days and it's not really healthy for graveyards, delvers or snapcasters.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I'm not sure I'd run a creature I have to win a coin flip to be any good. I've always felt delver was much too high variance to be any good unless decks were really off the wall (see the 14 land legacy variants), and i've cut way too many cards from my cube for being stupidly high variance that I can't really endorse delver in good conscience. I don't really think it's a card that's worth it even when you don't misbuild your deck.
I agree with white being a sub color. I don't run stoneforge anymore since most of the equipment left, but pike has been good. I mostly have it tied to the color with Seeker of the Way, Emerge Unscathed (Which I feel fits well in a threat light deck) and token making spells.
I'm less of a fan of the kiln fiend style because I don't like my drafters being one-turn-killed (Same reason all (Other than Ghor Clan Rampager) my pump spells are max +3/+3 with the double strike theme)
Geist does fit really nicely. Talrand never really worked out for me, but maybe I should give him another shot. Does coming down so late usually bother you?
I agree with white being a sub color. I don't run stoneforge anymore since most of the equipment left, but pike has been good. I mostly have it tied to the color with Seeker of the Way, Emerge Unscathed (Which I feel fits well in a threat light deck) and token making spells.
I'm less of a fan of the kiln fiend style because I don't like my drafters being one-turn-killed (Same reason all (Other than Ghor Clan Rampager) my pump spells are max +3/+3 with the double strike theme)
Geist does fit really nicely. Talrand never really worked out for me, but maybe I should give him another shot. Does coming down so late usually bother you?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
For me personally, delver has been very good, and my environment is designed to support it, but even here its been an evolution.
Delver is just an advanced draft card, requiring you to move away from limited's usual creature focused draft strategies, and most drafter's comfort zone. You also have to be very aware of what you are doing in the draft, and a lot of people have a challenging time drafting a deck where they have to be aware of specific spell to non-spell ratios, and figuring out what the correct ratios are.
What really got the deck going was young pyromancer and burning vengence, as a sort of "training wheels" version of the deck. Power level disclaimers aside (not everyone should be running BV), those are spells matter cards where the exact ratios of spells to non-spells is less important. Once they get comfortable with the deck, they can go lower and lower on the non-spell count, until settling on a ratio that delver works with. I do think most lists shouldn't be running more than 2 delver's at most, since it is somewhat narrow.
Over here, red is a major control color, so delver has a tendency to show up in the red control lists, making them very aggro-controlish.
Edit: Talrand has been fine, but the spells matters list we have here tend to be very aggro-control, so his CC works fine in those lists. I think his major issues is if he dies too easily to removal.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
The legacy deck I guess?
On my phone so zzz
Abzan reanimator:
4 satyr wayfinder
4 sylvan caryatid
4 courser of kruphix
1 nyx weaver
1 pharika, god of affliction
2 siege rhino
4 ashen rider
3 hornet queen
4 commune with the gods
4 whip of erebos
2 endless obedience
1 see the unwritten
1 banishing light
1 murderous cut
4 gb temple
4 gw temple
4 gw fetch
3 gb pain
2 bw pain
1 urborg
3 forest
2 swamp
1 plains
Sideboard highlights
1 resolute archangel
1 empty the pits
Abzan reanimator:
4 satyr wayfinder
4 sylvan caryatid
4 courser of kruphix
1 nyx weaver
1 pharika, god of affliction
2 siege rhino
4 ashen rider
3 hornet queen
4 commune with the gods
4 whip of erebos
2 endless obedience
1 see the unwritten
1 banishing light
1 murderous cut
4 gb temple
4 gw temple
4 gw fetch
3 gb pain
2 bw pain
1 urborg
3 forest
2 swamp
1 plains
Sideboard highlights
1 resolute archangel
1 empty the pits