I wouldnt write off conflagration completely, might be okay as a one of.
General The Constructed thread
- Thread starter Dom Harvey
- Start date
Laz
Developer
Fated Conflagration is kind of put to shame by Hero's Downfall. What do you want to do? Kill a creature or a planeswalker at instant speed? I mean, given that Stoke the Flames is in the format, would having Fated Conflagration be able to hit players have been such an issue given the hoops you have to jump through for 1 extra damage (ok, and a scry, which might not be irrelevant)?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
If it had targeted players as well it would have been everywhere!
(Edit: Everywhere being decks that could support the 1RRR cost obviously.)
(Edit: Everywhere being decks that could support the 1RRR cost obviously.)
As someone who plays burn with relative regularity that would be nuts- there have been multiple 4-damage burn spells in-format and that's bad enough. They just tried to make a rare cycle of big effects with scry and while fated conf. is respectable it's hardly good- I don't know why they're so scared of burn that doesn't hit players.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Wait... I am totally confused. That "doesn't hit" should be "hits" for the sentence to make sense, but then you would be contradicting yourself?
It only deals 5 is what I was trying to get at- it's respectable but not good. If it dealt 10 or something we'd be in business IMO, but not being able to actually remove planeswalkers a couple turns late or 6+ toughness creatures makes it bleh like a lot of burn spells.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Ah. So basically you're saying the same thing as I did? I.e., if it had dealt damage to players as well it would have been super playable? 
I'm saying it would've been busted if it it players, and probably fine if it actually killed everything as a rare removal spell (red hero's downfall? who knows) but since it does neither it's pretty bleh.
The reason I ask, is I was thinking about how bad the black and white control decks seem at dealing with small idiots without spashing (chain comes to mind) or fucking heavy with like last breath lol.
I started thinking about how deep red removal was these days, and how it seemed great with delve cards that value cheap transactions, but then I remembered midranged monsters are also really deep in this format and what does 2-4 damage say to that? Not a lot. Your 3cc wrath is also not doing a lot. But then I remembered i could probably be trying to run 1 or 2 conflagration alongside the counter that hits 4 or greater and my frown turned into a look of quizzical amusement.
I hate how bad omen dude and coral barrier seem with your best card in the red matchup (anger) but I think those blockers seem really annoying and one of them is even maindeckable. I just thought it was so weird that most decks 4of removal spells start at 1BB while they play cards that cost things like 1GG and even more outlandish costs in a deck playing 3 colours, there's gotta be a way to play control that doesn't leave you drifting in the wind so often and is tuned more for aggro.
I started thinking about how deep red removal was these days, and how it seemed great with delve cards that value cheap transactions, but then I remembered midranged monsters are also really deep in this format and what does 2-4 damage say to that? Not a lot. Your 3cc wrath is also not doing a lot. But then I remembered i could probably be trying to run 1 or 2 conflagration alongside the counter that hits 4 or greater and my frown turned into a look of quizzical amusement.
I hate how bad omen dude and coral barrier seem with your best card in the red matchup (anger) but I think those blockers seem really annoying and one of them is even maindeckable. I just thought it was so weird that most decks 4of removal spells start at 1BB while they play cards that cost things like 1GG and even more outlandish costs in a deck playing 3 colours, there's gotta be a way to play control that doesn't leave you drifting in the wind so often and is tuned more for aggro.
it probably not worth it considering how fragile it is, but bloom tender is a slight bit easier to combo with than carytid in the modern jeskai ass deck
Chris Taylor
Contributor
It sure will tap for WURG, but given how much bolt sees play I think you're right
CML
Contributor
PT recap (if anyone likes standard -- PLA = Pearl Lake Abortion)
--
C: what do i buy?
B: Dog through time, jeskai ascendancy is pretty much a buy at 5s til it gets banned. Pearl lake ancient overpetformed
C: anything else (we were looking at hornet queen, hornet nest, sagu mauler, dictate of heliod, genesis hydra too)
B: Hornet nest was underwhelming in testing. The others were good, dictate didn't find a great deck
B: Devotion didn't show up nearly as much as we expected, though duke and some others played it. We kinda tried it, the RG version was p bad in the meta and we had 1 guy on BG but it matched up so poorly against jeskai.
C: no splash was the best
B: Monos? That seems unimpressive but sure
C: bad against ascendancy no doubt
B: Indeed, that deck seemed insufficient in our testing as well but other people brought it. Too weak against removal decks even though it was resilient sometimes. Caryatid was just too necessary
B: Junk aggro is the most interesting deck from pt, 8-0 day 1, jacob wilson crushed Henry with it. Putting it together on mtgo with him. Unsure what anafenza, siege rhino and rakshasa's prices are
B: Beside UB control lol, nj getting PLAs
C: haha thanks too bad i only got like 20
C: surprises me that card is at all good
C: im happier theyre prog sphinxes in the t8 though i have a fuckton
B: Uhhh yeah, it's just aetherling
C: deathdealers too
B: Prog Sphinx has been reprinted and hugely opened set, doubt it breaks 5
B: Or 3
C: oh well
C: how opened is khans
B: The most ever
C: ah ok
C: its a sweet format (at least compared to the recent ones)
C: what happened to mono green
B: Formats pretty redundant to previous ones. Devotion in general underrepresented, assumption was metagame against it. Just not deck with tons of play, mono G probably not best version anyway. Bad vs jeskai+ascendancy combo+mardu+anything but Abzan
B: Idk if I saw rg at all, a few pros played BG, saw almost no mono g, some 3c nykthos decks
C: huh, weird, all the homies are saying mono g crushed jeskai
C: remind me what you played again
B: Jeskai
B: Preboard it's easy and post you have disdainful strokes
B: having trouble settling on a list beyond the lands +obvious core
--
C: what do i buy?
B: Dog through time, jeskai ascendancy is pretty much a buy at 5s til it gets banned. Pearl lake ancient overpetformed
C: anything else (we were looking at hornet queen, hornet nest, sagu mauler, dictate of heliod, genesis hydra too)
B: Hornet nest was underwhelming in testing. The others were good, dictate didn't find a great deck
B: Devotion didn't show up nearly as much as we expected, though duke and some others played it. We kinda tried it, the RG version was p bad in the meta and we had 1 guy on BG but it matched up so poorly against jeskai.
C: no splash was the best
B: Monos? That seems unimpressive but sure
C: bad against ascendancy no doubt
B: Indeed, that deck seemed insufficient in our testing as well but other people brought it. Too weak against removal decks even though it was resilient sometimes. Caryatid was just too necessary
B: Junk aggro is the most interesting deck from pt, 8-0 day 1, jacob wilson crushed Henry with it. Putting it together on mtgo with him. Unsure what anafenza, siege rhino and rakshasa's prices are
B: Beside UB control lol, nj getting PLAs
C: haha thanks too bad i only got like 20
C: surprises me that card is at all good
C: im happier theyre prog sphinxes in the t8 though i have a fuckton
B: Uhhh yeah, it's just aetherling
C: deathdealers too
B: Prog Sphinx has been reprinted and hugely opened set, doubt it breaks 5
B: Or 3
C: oh well
C: how opened is khans
B: The most ever
C: ah ok
C: its a sweet format (at least compared to the recent ones)
C: what happened to mono green
B: Formats pretty redundant to previous ones. Devotion in general underrepresented, assumption was metagame against it. Just not deck with tons of play, mono G probably not best version anyway. Bad vs jeskai+ascendancy combo+mardu+anything but Abzan
B: Idk if I saw rg at all, a few pros played BG, saw almost no mono g, some 3c nykthos decks
C: huh, weird, all the homies are saying mono g crushed jeskai
C: remind me what you played again
B: Jeskai
B: Preboard it's easy and post you have disdainful strokes
B: having trouble settling on a list beyond the lands +obvious core
Any fun matches to watch from this PT? I like Round 15 between Turtenwaled (UB Control) and Sigrist (Abzan Aggro). A lot of the rounds I dipped into had pretty dumb boardstates.
I didn't actually watch every game myself but a friend of mine posted about every game in the top 8 up to the finals was won by the person on the play.
Watching the five or six rounds I managed did not leave me very impressed with this meta. Oh well.
Watching the five or six rounds I managed did not leave me very impressed with this meta. Oh well.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I was disappointed by the standard meta; it seemed overly draw dependent in the top 8, basially coming down to whether siege rhino was drawn or not, and in what numbers.
I did enjoy the draft format though, where Jeremy Dezani drafted the "best deck ever" and than was outplayed by Seth Manfield.
I did enjoy the draft format though, where Jeremy Dezani drafted the "best deck ever" and than was outplayed by Seth Manfield.
I like this meta far better than Theros thus far. There are so many more interesting decks than there were last year during PT Theros.
It was kind of crappy seeing the control lists just get wrecked on camera, but they must have been doing something right off camera to get so far. The Abzan deck is like the midrangiest midrange that ever midranged. Pretty grindy. Hope to see some more fine-tuned lists later this weekend at GP LA (my first GP!).
It was kind of crappy seeing the control lists just get wrecked on camera, but they must have been doing something right off camera to get so far. The Abzan deck is like the midrangiest midrange that ever midranged. Pretty grindy. Hope to see some more fine-tuned lists later this weekend at GP LA (my first GP!).
Has anyone tested a big red plan? Is ember mauler just terrible or am I on to something in thinking it could be good? How out of touch am I? Someone tell me things!
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I'm kinda really hoping we don't get any powerful clones or flicker effects. Clever Impersonator is cool, but I'm sensing the beginnings of a Thragtusk/Restoration Angel/Progenitor Mimic deck here
Ember Swallower is a bunch of mana for a creature with no etb effect, no evasion, and is a mediocre p/t for a generic ground dude. Being weak to both Elspeth abilities is no good.
I have like a lot of questions about the UB deck and now I kinda wana test standard. I guess the mana is prohibitive right now but I don't know how I managed to avoid playing constructed when there have been so many inspiration equivalent cards in type 2. I can be countering 4 mana spells for 2 mana, doesn't that sound fun?
Man I could be destroying creatures for 1 mana or like making a million tokens, this sounds really silly!
Man I could be destroying creatures for 1 mana or like making a million tokens, this sounds really silly!
If you're an idiot like I am, and playing a 3 colour deck, like jeskai, you might be more comfortable playing cruise than alternatives because dig is disadvantaged if you aren't in tune with ambiguity/ you are playing a super redundant deck / you aren't leaning on a lot of instant moments / you have shitty/ painful mana.
Just crappy personal experience here. I think there is a lot to be learned about the difference between these obviously compared delve spells and we are at the door of a master class of learning the shit out of redundant options.
Just crappy personal experience here. I think there is a lot to be learned about the difference between these obviously compared delve spells and we are at the door of a master class of learning the shit out of redundant options.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
what does that even mean