General [CMR] Commander Legends Previews

Strong disagree. I'm about to ramble so apologies to anyone just looking for spoiler discussion, but fuck it.
I don't want to get too far into this either because it's entirely unimportant, I just think your overly pessimistic viewpoint is largely incorrect in many regards and is neither helpful or constructive. It bothers me to no end that you're complaining about good magic sets after we just came out of one of the low points of magic's design (BFZ-RIX). While there have been a number of mistakes over the last 15 months or so by WOTC, a lot of this seems to be caused by trying to power up sets in reaction to the abysmally weak sets of 2015-18. It's going to take a while for them to get things right again.

I don't think you quite grasp what Unlimited means in terms of a supplemental product. Print to demand? Sure, it'll be available as long as stores ask for it. But Magic doesn't have a single product to sell for half a year; we go through new sets and releases every quarter. As soon as the next big set or supplemental comes out, player demands will shift and this will end up going out of print. It happened with Conspiracy both times, and certain cards shot to the moon as a result, and it will absolutely happen again.

The Conspiracy sets are not really comparable to Commander Legends in terms of print run. Both conspiracy sets were released within a month of the launch of a big Standard set (Conspiracy's June 6, 2014 was only six weeks before M15's July 18, 2014 release, and Take the Crown's August 26, 2016 was only a month before Kaladesh's September 30, 2016 release). Commander legends was supposed to be released on November 6th, although it has been pushed back to November 20th thanks to Covid. Kalheim isn't supposed to release until February 5, 2021. Effectively, Legends has almost three months on shelves before it's supplanted by another product, unlike the Conspiracy sets which had almost no time before the next major release. Conspiracy also did not have collector boosters, which as we have seen with standard sets, tend to drastically reduce prices on everything. Almost every card from a non-masters set with a collector booster released in the last year is under $30, save for *Uro.

It's also important to remember that many of the expensive cards in the conspiracy products stayed fairly reasonable in price for years, and either declined in price naturally or were brought back into the reasonable price range by a single reprint. Expropriate didn't spike above $20 for almost 2 years after Conspiracy take the Crown was released, and is now back down to about $15 after a single reprint in the mystery booster. The trend is roughly the same for Selvala, Heart of the Wilds. As for Conspiracy 1, almost none of the new cards went above $40, Council's Judgment, a Legacy staple, spiked to $20 about two years ago, but has been brought down to $5 due to its Double Masters printing.

You may argue that the high initial pre-order price of the Lotus dispels any previous precedent in regards to price trends of cards in supplemental products, but might I remind you of Dack Fayden, who pre-ordered at $60, but dropped down to only about $20 following the set release. A reprint in Eternal Masters brought it as far down as $14.

The point is, if they reprint Lotus one time in the next two years, it won't go insane in price.

*Uro is a bit special since he is the only card of any real value in THB. People stopped doing mass box openings fairly quickly since it became the Uro lottery after about two weeks. Plus, Uro is a 4 of in tier decks in many formats and a card commander players need. I'd be willing to bet more Uros are needed than Lotuses. Commander legends has multiple cards which seem to be potential commander staples, and has reprints of other high-value cards.
We're also in the middle of a pandemic; paper Magic is not being restocked as often as it was previously. So many players couldn't get their hands on Double Masters or Mystery Boosters earlier this year. It will be an exact repeat with this set given the current circumstances. That does not bode well when you print the Black Lotus of the format at the highest rarity.
This actually hasn't had as big of an effect on product as you might think. Ikoria was the best selling spring set of all time, despite a slump in sales of other product due to the Pandemic. The only product that seems to have been negatively affected in a big way is Jumpstart, and I've heard that this is only because of the weird way the packs are organized. In-store play might not be possible here in the U.S on the 20th, but I don't think a lack of draft is going to tank this product's sales given that there are cards like the Lotus in the set which *many commander players are going to want.

(I say many because a lot of CEDH people I've spoken to think the card is only ok, it's not useful in 4 color decks like Atraxa. Pleasantkenobi did a great video on the topic. Of my three decks, the only one I would even consider adding this to is Kruphix, I don't feel like spending the money there because it's not even one of my semi-competitive decks. Perhaps this is anecdotal evidence, but I think most of the hype around this card is due to the fact that it costs 0 mana and has "lotus" in the name, not because it is actually an auto include in every deck. Many decks will play it, but not to the same degree as Sol Ring or Mana Crypt).

While I understand your point of view on this issue, you are not entirely correct on many points. This is not the worst thing ever, I don't even think it's hurting the game in any meaningful way. Secret Lair Walking Dead is worse than the Lotus. The print run is going to be larger than the Conspiracy sets, and the time it has on shelves is two to three times as long.

There are so many bad things going on the world right now (my country might have an attempt at a Fascist Coup in about 4 days), this is small potatoes even in the Magic community.
 
kinsbailecourier.jpg

So if this just had unearth, how would we feel? Double ETBs are great, sac fodder, etc
I think this card is neat, but I think it's ceiling isn't high enough to justify it's floor of a 3/2 for 3 with unearth. The card is good design, but not quite where I would want it power wise.

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This card is so...weird? Also why isn't it white?
This is the kinda brain exploding not broken build around I love commander for
I like Turtle Friend! He's not a card I'd want to put into a non-commander cube, but I love his design. I wish all of the made for commander legends looked like this.
 
Kinsbaile will be a roleplayer in places that need it, which is great. Nothing overwhelming, but a decent option to have around. I personally find Kithkin so ugly and irritating that they only showed up once ever to support their own tribal mechanic. What's the point in making a tribe with no members??

Turtle is interesting and I love the art and flavor text. However, I'm a bit disappointed that the two black 3c cards from today don't help me at all.
ghenarcanumweaverp.jpg

I could maybe see this making it in Abzan, but R doesn't historically have a deep enchantment link. I think they totally could have made this like:
"RWB, T: Sac permanent: Reanimate permanent that shares a type."
It would have been more useful for a variety of decks and wouldn't feel as mechanically reaching to make R an enchantment color. I get that the design DOES work, as R is tied to sac, but it doesn't sit quite right for me. He feels like RB+BW, but he doesn't feel Mardu.

Might as well get into the other black 3c while I'm at it
colfenorthelastyew.jpg

Seeing this guy made me immediately want to slam Doran, the Siege Tower, but that's almost certainly not right for my environment. That said, he's got a bit of an old school feel where he doesn't ETB or anything like that, but he has a solid body and threatens value over time. That's been increasingly appealing to me lately and I could see myself using this in certain iterations of The Black Cube.

yurlokofscorchthrashp.jpg

This dude is pretty cool. Good mix of RG ramp and RB punish while still having that Jund-y good stuff vibe. I could see myself using this if I fully commit to my Blackdrazi idea or end up wanting G to represent a legitimate big ramp option in general.

Tossing this one in here, too.
nymrisoonastricksterp.jpg

Like Colfenor, this has a decent body (assuming you can flash it in and "gain life" with it) and threatens advantage as time goes by.
 
I really want Tuia to have Flanking or Horsemanship...

Tuia really disappoints me. I've loved Wild Beastmaster since I started, and seeing two legendary creatures in relatively quick succession that are a less interesting take on the concept (of doubling/tripling down on pump) is... frustrating. At the very least, the power increase should happen later in combat, so that you can build her around in-combat pump/clever use of firebreathing.
 
I am fucking pissed off that they signed off on that Lotus. Just straight up injected a format staple into a Limited print run. Wizards going all in on their desire to increase revenues by bleeding their players dry is just so blatant and gross. 2020 has just been a master class in how to NOT promote long term format health for a game. I straight up cannot and will not recommend the game to any friends that might be interested at this point. It's entirely not worth it as a new player.

It's so bizarre that they're willing to throw away years and years of product stability and consumer confidence for short term gains. A year of format warping staples, game-warping mechanics, and just blatant cash grabs. Rinse and repeat. Ugh.

Cube is at least sheltered from this fuckery...


For how long though.. Mystery Booster Cube draft was a pretty big hit, right? Wouldn't surprise me if we started seeing more cube products. (We have our format staples--maybe it's time to powercreep all of them out of existence and make a bunch of money off this group of players too.)

Hi everyone! Longtime lurker. ;)
 
I mean, the nice thing about Cube is that every cube is curated by and designed for a specific group (which can vary in size from "just you and a friend" to "everyone who plays Arena"). WotC cannot force you to upgrade your cube through power-creep. It's not like, say, Modern or Commander, where any sort of principled stance dissolves as soon as people who don't care end up using the cards you're refusing to touch.
 
slashtheranks.jpg

Is this an interesting option, given it will just kill everything?
As long as you're ok with the commander flavor text, I would say you could test this card. The one fear I would have for this card is actually the fact that it destroys planeswalkers. One of the few ways midrange has to beat control is to slam a planeswalker to provide incremental value that can't be counterspelled or killed by a board wipe. Giving control a board wipe that kills creatures and walkers gives it a huge advantage against midrange decks, which is already control's best matchup.

Of course, there is a bit of a double edged sword here- control also likes to try to win with walkers, but I don't think that really matters much when the control player is trying to cast this on turn 5.

Either way, this card is a neat design, I'm just not sure what role it fills in the majority of cubes.
 

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
So, wizards isn't just ruining commander by power creeping to the extreme.
I am going to go on a Shamizy tangent and show you two spoiled cards that ruin what I hold dear:
fallfromfavor.jpg
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As you may know, I play a lot of pauper. Especially this year. Format has had it's ups and downs, but it has been a solidly stable format.
Monarch has always been a strong mechanic, but it has helped white and black in this format grind against blue and form some great midrange decks.

Fall from Favor changes all of this.

So there are a couple of things that make Fall from Favor the worst version of this card that they could of printed.
  1. It is Blue - Blue is easily the strongest colour in pauper, thanks to the Cantrips, Counterspell and Mulldrifter. The only other blue common that produced the monarchy was Canal Courier, which was never legal on mtgo, so this is technically the first blue monarch card legal in pauper. It would be easy to find a time where the opponent is tapped out then just hold them out with counterspells. Doesn't seem right.
  2. It is Removal - Sure, this may actually be a downside, as there may not be any creatures in play. But you can just play some flash faeries to attach it to. It is more effective at keeping the monarch, as usually you have a creature you can block with, but creatures can get easily removed. An aura on the other hand is much harder to remove in a quicker timeframe to try and take the monarchy over. Sure it is worse when you are ahead, but is much better than when you are behind.
  3. It Costs 3 Mana - Why? Why did it have to cost 3 mana? People have been used to not worrying about the monarchy until turn 4. Now we have to deal with it a turn earlier, and in a better colour? I just don't understand what the thought process was for this card.
Staunch Throneguard is also a problem as it gives every colour access to monarchy now and pretty much obsoletes the other two minor monarch players in Entourage of Trest and Crown-Hunter Hireling. It can attack in easier than those two and can survive block from them as well.
People have been advocating for a monarch ban in pauper for quite some time, which I can understand, it is a very snowball-y ability. It actually needs to be in the format as it gives midrange the only change it has to beat the boogeyman that is Tron. Now Tron gets easy access to the Monarchy as well, making it move up to tier 0, with UR/UB fae moving up to tier 1 and everything else is going to struggle.
This set makes me sad to see how pauper will come out of this format.
I thought it was safe from Wizards power creep this year. Then again Astrolabe/Ephemerate were already signs that the envelope was being pushed.
Just give me more Underworld Rage-Hounds please. Cards that are niche but can help certain decks bump them up a tier. Not this GRBS.

EDIT
Then after I go on this ramble I see this:
bVlvqCk.png


Can't tell if this is just Gavin trying to calm fires against his baby (which is surprising as the pauper community is pretty small), or actual WotC thought patterns.
Really hoping it is the latter.
 
The thing I like about Ich-Tekik is that you don't have to be running splicers for it to be good. Green gets Food and Investigate, which are both mechanics that A) make artifacts and B) sacrifice them for value. You could also spread it out to RG for an amusing Artifact Aristocrats archetype.
 
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